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Old 19th March 2008, 14:43   #286
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Thumbs up still working on it !!

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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Is the tweeter 'blending' well in this position. I am but a mere mortal but I would like to know, so do forgive me if this is a stupid question.
Sir,

It is an apt question.

Technically the Tweeter is too far from the mid woofer & hence the sound stage should appear to be dis jointed;
You can say what you have in your mind / heart; I shall not take offence. Trustme..

However, I was not ready to place the tweeter on the door - next to or above the mid woofer. Hence the only other place I could find - without making a hole in the car - was on the dash.

It is not the best location. I still have to play with the angles and the tilt, but if nothing works, then inverted phase is the next step.

Life is all about compromises - we all need to make some.

Gunbirji, this is a very basic install in a Hyundai I-10. The 'patra' of the car - well all of us know how that is. Space was a constraint.

I have tried to make the most out of a given scenario.
I do not know how successful I have been, but I am trying & am ready to learn.
Let every one listen & then decide. The proof of the pudding is in the eating ['listening' in this case] !!!


Last edited by BHAGWAN : 19th March 2008 at 14:46. Reason: spelling mistake - typo
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Old 19th March 2008, 15:28   #287
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bhagwan i do feel that the tweeter is too far.as it is a 2 way set without a dedicated midrange the tweeter should have been closer to the midbasses.just switch off the sub and then listen i am sure you will find the tweeters overpowerimg the mid.

bhagwan i know its a proven fact that the dyns need time to 'break in' and that too around 100 hours so before deciding the tweeters position i would like you to wait until they are through with that.after playing for around 20-25 hours with my dyns i have only one word to describe them-IMMACULATE.

Note from the Team-BHP Support Staff : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 15 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post

Last edited by Technocrat : 19th March 2008 at 15:37.
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Old 19th March 2008, 15:43   #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zucchero View Post
bhagwan i do feel that the tweeter is too far.as it is a 2 way set without a dedicated midrange the tweeter should have been closer to the midbasses.just switch off the sub and then listen i am sure you will find the tweeters overpowerimg the mid.
My dear lucky friend. Nothing of your description is happening. i.e. tweets overpowering the mid etc. This is with the tweeter in 0dB position right now although they end up being much closer than the midbasses in terms of path length. The tone is quite nice and Bhagwan is of the opinion that we should not jump to any conclusions just yet and I agree with that. All speakers are fresh out of the box.

I also dont see why the sub being on or off has anything to do with the perception of the tweeter. What is the connection there? I presume you mean to say that due to the additional bass, one might find the tweeter less annoying but that is not true. If it were, we would all add subs to mask a bright tweeter. Bhagwan has a relatively good pair of ears and knows what to listen to in order to judge midwoofer-tweeter integration without being distracted by a subwoofer of all things.

Edit: Just saw your edited post.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:00   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Wow, you can tell just by looking...

Wonderful.

Dear "B" Almighty, is the tweeter blending well in this position. I am but a mere mortal but I would like to know, so do forgive me if this is a stupid question.

Ya I simply looked and said. I did not need measure tapes or vernier for the same. It was a simple thing.

I think Godji did not knew about acoustic phase else he had put the tweeter like this.

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About the blending part I thing it can be taken care of by placement or phase change also.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:06   #290
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Mr. 'B'. Try playing with phase & crossover slopes between subwoofer and front stage before adding any delay to the sub. Don't delay the front's unless you are running them active.

The position you have selected for the tweeter is not the best (As it suffers from immediate reflections off the dash and windscreen. I know one have to compromise in case of new car but try running your tweeters offaxis, say in A-Pillar. MD100's sounds better off axis.

The 3" baffle is cut very amaturely after all the hard work on the box.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:15   #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Ya I simply looked and said. I did not need measure tapes or vernier for the same. It was a simple thing.
LBM please google "sarcasm" you may benefit from understanding its meaning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
I think Godji did not knew about acoustic phase else he had put the tweeter like this.

Attachment 2402
Why must you repeatedly insist on making a nuisance of yourself LBM? Would you shut up if I told you Mr. Paul Jelko, the designer of the product, recommended this location?
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:15   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autophile View Post
The 3" baffle is cut very amaturely after all the hard work on the box.
but with both woofers installed one does not see it right?
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:20   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Ya I simply looked and said. I did not need measure tapes or vernier for the same. It was a simple thing.

I think Godji did not knew about acoustic phase else he had put the tweeter like this.

All i can say.

All this long you were cutting holes in the car, making steel/wood angle mounts, countless man hours, best possible processing partnered with world class multiple amps connected by exotic cables. But sorry to say it still does not sound even shade closer to the one shown in the picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
About the blending part I thing it can be taken care of by placement or phase change also.
No it cannot be taken care just by changing the phase, speaking out of my hands on experience with Dynaudio car audio.

Regarding placements what alternate locations / mounting option can you think of .
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:23   #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
LBM please google "sarcasm" you may benefit from understanding its meaning.
Why ? Did I meant some thing bad there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir
Why must you repeatedly insist on making a nuisance of yourself LBM?
I am make nuisance. Sorry Phaji I was just sharing some info about tweeter placement to Godji.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir

Would you shut up if I told you Mr. Paul Jelko, the designer of the product, recommended this location?
When did this happened ?
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:25   #295
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
but with both woofers installed one does not see it right?
Aesthetics were never the case. I am just talking about the quality of the cut.

Just for your knowledge DIYers. Its impossible to cut MDF baffle (more than 1.5" thick) cleanly by using a Jigsaw. The cut will never be straight as jigsaw blade tends to bend while dealing with thick MDF boards.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:30   #296
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lbm if i am not wrong many people find kick panel installations best for wide soundstage.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:32   #297
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Lbm, the tweeter location you are reffering to is often used in car audio competitions(where soundstaging is a judging criteria)

what is the problem with that location? can you please let us know?
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:34   #298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
LBM please google "sarcasm" you may benefit from understanding its meaning.

Why must you repeatedly insist on making a nuisance of yourself LBM? Would you shut up if I told you Mr. Paul Jelko, the designer of the product, recommended this location?
..and there is no need to use sarcasm either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autophile View Post
Aesthetics were never the case. I am just talking about the quality of the cut....Its impossible to cut MDF baffle...The cut will never be straight as jigsaw blade tends to bend...
Sure one could use a router to make the cut but in this case where the cut wont be seen or heard I wont hold it against the carpenter.

BTW a router on MDF creates a lot of fine dust, a jigsaw creates less dust. Maybe that is why the carpenter used the jigsaw, or maybe he did not have a router around.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:38   #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zucchero View Post
lbm if i am not wrong many people find kick panel installations best for wide soundstage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333 View Post
Lbm, the tweeter location you are reffering to is often used in car audio competitions(where soundstaging is a judging criteria)

what is the problem with that location? can you please let us know?
You guys are right but have you also seen where the drivers are pointing, facing ?
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:40   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clipto333 View Post
what is the problem with that location? can you please let us know?
I think what Autophile is alluding to is that given that the tweeter is on the dash ithere will be early reflections (tweeter is close to windshield) of a rather hard and resonant surface (windshield) from the off axis respnse of the tweeter. Other install options would be kick panel, door, or A-pillar.

Still given that "B" should have an educated ear (given the long list of audio equipment he has heard, owned and/or used) I would allow him finalise his location/install before passing judgement. On the other hand it is nice that the subject was discussed. "Smear" can be very disconcerting. A lot depends on the nature of the tweeter's off axis response.

Finally I will add that there are solutions that can be used (no not wave guides, there is not enough space for them) to compensate for this.

Last edited by navin : 19th March 2008 at 16:43.
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