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Old 19th March 2008, 16:41   #301
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Mr. 'B'. Try playing with phase & crossover slopes between subwoofer and front stage before adding any delay to the sub.
Why would anyone add delay to the sub? This is a fronts + sub install.

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The 3" baffle is cut very amaturely after all the hard work on the box.
Bhagwanji, point to be noted and conveyed to Mr. Bhagwan Desai.

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The position you have selected for the tweeter is not the best (As it suffers from immediate reflections off the dash and windscreen. I know one have to compromise in case of new car but try running your tweeters offaxis, say in A-Pillar. MD100's sounds better off axis.
JB Bhai, his biwi will not take kindly to any of the cutting shutting. In his own car, if someone convinces him that the subwoofer will sound best playing into the cabin from a hole in the roof, he will gladly accomodate it. He has clearly told me that he will not tolerate the tweeter in any other location than the current for the sake of his own well-being. So I have to negotiate the uphill taks of listening and placement in trial and error mode to determine what will be the most optimum. If you have any suggestions in this regard, please be kind enough to share with us.

And by the way, this is not a DIY install (in the true sense of the word) for all that have so commented. Sure, Bhagwan has put a huge amount of effort into calculating enclosure volume, ensuring that it is constructed well (with the exception of cut quality), is airtight, inert, adequate damping, proper installation of all equipment etc. but he has supervised and not folded up his sleeves to man the tools.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:46   #302
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BTW a router on MDF creates a lot of fine dust, a jigsaw creates less dust. Maybe that is why the carpenter used the jigsaw, or maybe he did not have a router around.
That should not be a problem especially while making state of the art box.

I believe carpenter does not have access to router or patience to use it (involved in multiple passes to cut 3" cutout) .

Example of 1.5" baffle done with router :

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/iipcache/128076.jpg
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:47   #303
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he will not tolerate the tweeter in any other location than the current for the sake of his own well-being.
hey B&T there are XO based solutions around this. You got LspCad or something similar? We can tailor the tweeter's response.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:49   #304
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I believe carpenter does not have access to router or patience to use it (involved in multiple passes to cut 3" cutout) .
It sitll does not affect the acoustics in this case.

Autophile, I dont get your point.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:50   #305
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You guys are right but have you also seen where the drivers are pointing, facing ?
LBM, midbasses face each other in more than 95% of the cars. According to you all that is wrong and everyone should angle them 30-45 degrees in order to make them sound good.

FYI big tweeters have good off axis response hence they require less angling/toe in.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:54   #306
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All i can say.

All this long you were cutting holes in the car, making steel/wood angle mounts, countless man hours, best possible processing partnered with world class multiple amps connected by exotic cables. But sorry to say it still does not sound even shade closer to the one shown in the picture.
Are we talking about my car ? Sorry to say it man I did not like the sound. About mine I am quite satisfied with it. And lots of good trained ears have told me that it sound nice. Thanks and welcome.


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No it cannot be taken care just by changing the phase, speaking out of my hands on experience with Dynaudio car audio.

Regarding placements what alternate locations / mounting option can you think of .

I have done the same. I have tried two to three times with 242 which is quite similar to 240. It works, and that to I have done it out of my hands on experience with Dynaudio car audio

I think Godji has done the best possible way, and I agree with him.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:56   #307
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Why would anyone add delay to the sub? This is a fronts + sub install.
I am wondering that you are asking this question. Adding delay to the subwoofer helps in achieving upfront bass and better integration with the front stage which eventually makes the sub disappear.

Before doing this I told 'B' to play around with phase and slopes as they also take care of the alignment to a certain extent. If that does not helps then time delay should be added.

In active setup sub & mids are delayed in respect to tweeters which are taken as reference.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:57   #308
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md100 amd md102 are indeed 'large' tweeter.md102 has 1.1 inch diameter surface area that is approximately 50% more than a conventional car audio tweeters.their off-axis response is fantastic.
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Old 19th March 2008, 16:57   #309
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Originally Posted by Autophile View Post
LBM, midbasses face each other in more than 95% of the cars. According to you all that is wrong and everyone should angle them 30-45 degrees in order to make them sound good.

FYI big tweeters have good off axis response hence they require less angling/toe in.
I think we are talking about Tweeters and not Midbass.

In how many cars which have a kickpanel install and the tweeter is facing each other ?

I know that but off axis is not everything.
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Old 19th March 2008, 17:02   #310
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I am wondering that you are asking this question. Adding delay to the subwoofer helps in achieving upfront bass and better integration with the front stage which eventually makes the sub disappear.
I think it is the other way round. One has to put delay to the driver which is closer to the user not to that which is most far away.

I would put delay in the front stage that to the sub. The speaker on the right will get the max delay as it is closest to the driver.

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 19th March 2008 at 17:05.
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Old 19th March 2008, 17:04   #311
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md100 amd md102 are indeed 'large' tweeter.md102 has 1.1 inch diameter surface area that is approximately 50% more than a conventional car audio tweeters.their off-axis response is fantastic.
Have you tried it playing on-axis. I think NO.

Iridium also has a 1.1 inch tweeter, The Carbon also has a 1 inch one. And I prefer both the tweeters to be on-axis as they perform better that way.
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Old 19th March 2008, 17:06   #312
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It sitll does not affect the acoustics in this case.

Autophile, I dont get your point.
I only looked at it from finishing point of view. I also know that it does not matter that much eventually. We are looking at it from two different point of views.


Not in context of Mr. "B"'s enclosure :

In my personal opinion when it comes to aesthetics, product should be made with good attention to detail and skill which will make it look good and lesser works is required in hiding the abnormalities with something (subwoofer / carper / cloth / paint etc. etc.).
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Old 19th March 2008, 17:07   #313
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lbm,almost all the cars have tweeter facing each other in kick panels for a larger soundstage.i was running my md102 located behind side rear view mirror facing each other and that was the time when the sound stage was at its best but unfortunately there was a lot of reflected sound from the windshield.
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Old 19th March 2008, 17:08   #314
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dear lbm i am running them ON-AXIS.
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Old 19th March 2008, 17:11   #315
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
I think we are talking about Tweeters and not Midbass.
LBM both are speakers - transduces, they make sound hence they are no different.

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In how many cars which have a kickpanel install and the tweeter is facing each other ?
There are many I think you have capabilities to google them atleast. More over the tweeters cannot really face each other as there is part of dashboard and transmission tunnel as a obstruction in between them in every car. We are not talking here / taking examples of "Flintstone Cars".

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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
I know that but off axis is not everything.
Then what else is, Can you please elaborate, Sir.

Last edited by Autophile : 19th March 2008 at 17:14.
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