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Old 2nd March 2008, 15:32   #16
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Ok coming back to the problem, I put the file in every subdirectory courtesy of NetfreakBombay's suggestion. But now there's a another problem. The HU puts the file (00000.mp3) at the end of every folder and not the start! All the other files are put in this format:

\Artist\Album\TrackNo. - Songname
for example,
\Metallica\Ride the Lightning\04 - Fade to Black

I don't have the car right now, but does the HU treat 00000 as a larger number than 01, 02, 03 etc?

btw on this note, how does the HU sort tracks? The folders seem to be mostly alphabetical, but some folders just appear randomly in the middle. Also, folders in the "List" for some reason starts alphabetically from the letter "R." What's going on here?
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Old 2nd March 2008, 15:58   #17
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HU does not sort tracks - it just follows the sequence that it encounters in the 'directory'.

* What you see in Windows Explorer is Not what you get in the Physical Directory. Explorer only 'displays' a sorted list for convenience
* When copying files to another location such as flash disk, especially when marked as a group with Ctrl- or Shift, Windows has the peculiarity of starting at the file that was last selected by mouse click (the one under the blue highlight / dotted rectangle) before you did Ctrl-(select) or Shift-(select), or even Ctrl-A
* Order of appearance in the physical disk directory is based on the order it was copied, and not strictly 'alphabetical' or such intuitive order (OK, now I expect a comment on Windows not thinking like humans)
* CD burning programs, such as Nero, create a sorted list before copying, so files on CD are usually in the sorted order. That is why the informal naming convention 01-<song1>, 02-<song2> was started (about 10-12 years back)!
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Old 2nd March 2008, 20:14   #18
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This is ridiculous!! I was hoping this wasn't the answer (Order of appearance in the physical disk directory is based on the order it was copied, and not strictly 'alphabetical' or such intuitive order). Because now it means I have to put 00000.mp3 in the subdirectory before any other mp3s are put in it! So in essence, I have to first create the bare folders (for 150+ albums) manually, and then put 00000.mp3 in each folder, and then transfer the files themselves.

Also Deralte since you are still making cracks about it, do confirm whether you know of any mp3 players (hardware or software) that put the next ordered track instead of a random track when you press Next (i.e. when Random/Shuffle is on). I would wager apart from Pioneer HUs (or let's just say HUs since I don't know whether other brand HUs are as stupid or not) you would not find any.

On that note, can other people please post whether other brands HUs do this or not. If they don't I might ditch my HU and get something non-pioneer. I would not be able to justify to myself a 9K+ HU which doesn't have the functionality of a 1K mp3 player. (Or maybe I will ditch the HU altogether and go back to my idea of a HU-less system! )

Last edited by vebmetal : 2nd March 2008 at 20:19.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 20:33   #19
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HU should sort files and not use them in the order they appear in directory entry.

However, HU is doing exactly that :(

But we should be able to fix order of files in directory with simple DOS command. Gimme few minutes to try that out.

Last edited by NetfreakBombay : 2nd March 2008 at 20:34.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 20:41   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
HU does not sort tracks - it just follows the sequence that it encounters in the 'directory'.


* When copying files to another location such as flash disk, especially when marked as a group with Ctrl- or Shift, Windows has the peculiarity of starting at the file that was last selected by mouse click (the one under the blue highlight / dotted rectangle) before you did Ctrl-(select) or Shift-(select), or even Ctrl-A
* Order of appearance in the physical disk directory is based on the order it was copied, and not strictly 'alphabetical' or such intuitive order (OK, now I expect a comment on Windows not thinking like humans)
I think that's exactly what happens. I think there might be another factor. Since the flash discs are memory based and hence have memory address. So the HU might be reading from the starting address and progress till it comes to the end. So now the tracks will be accessed in order in which windows decided to put it memory and not the sorted way.
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Old 2nd March 2008, 22:02   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
This is ridiculous!! I was hoping this wasn't the answer (Order of appearance in the physical disk directory is based on the order it was copied, and not strictly 'alphabetical' or such intuitive order). Because now it means I have to put 00000.mp3 in the subdirectory before any other mp3s are put in it! So in essence, I have to first create the bare folders (for 150+ albums) manually, and then put 00000.mp3 in each folder, and then transfer the files themselves.
I was thinking that the USB drive access is a great feature but your experience is making me skeptical about it. Now i think i might look at an Alpine HU

And I wanted to share one thing.. I already have a old Pio model DEH4.. something which plays MP3. even in that older model it only switches to next track/folder when you press next in random mode. So i guess PIO's are designed like this for a lont time and they dont show any signs of correcting it.
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Old 3rd March 2008, 00:12   #22
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^ I know that it is a common feature among Pioneer HUs in general, and not just my model. It's just infuriating how out-of-touch / apathetic (stress on the pathetic) HU manufacturers are to technological changes in music. Seems like they do the bare minimum so that they can advertise their HU as "plays mp3s" but don't care about the user experience.

btw people with other brands please do comment - is this a common annoyance across all brands?
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Old 3rd March 2008, 00:36   #23
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Found another thing: Pioneer HUs may use
Quote:
"character code" order, which it means quite literally. This means that uppercase letters come before lower case letters. So "folder" comes after "ZZfolder"
If this is the case, I can name 00000.mp3 instead as AA.mp3

So people (I am looking at you NetfreakBombay), how can I now rename those 158 files of 00000.mp3 as AA.mp3?
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Old 3rd March 2008, 00:47   #24
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plug it into a pc , search for 0000.mp3 , select all the results, right click, choose rename, and presto !

EDIT: they will be AAAA, AAAA(1), AAAA(2). will that be an issue ?

Last edited by greenhorn : 3rd March 2008 at 00:49.
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Old 3rd March 2008, 12:58   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
So people (I am looking at you NetfreakBombay), how can I now rename those 158 files of 00000.mp3 as AA.mp3?

if g: is usb drive

g:
cd \
for /R /D %1 in (.) do move /Y "%~f1\00000.mp3" "%~f1\AA.mp3"

Lemme know if it works.
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Old 3rd March 2008, 13:21   #26
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Well, I made do with greenhorn's method, but unfortunately, I was wrong about the capital letter order. It is pure and simply the order you put the files in the pen drive (so retarded).

So netfreakbombay, any progress in figuring out a way to fix the order of files in the directory using DOS?
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Old 3rd March 2008, 14:24   #27
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Have the same problem with my Pioneer DEH 6950 and it's irritating when others point out that 'apparently' the 'random' feature doesn't seem to be working on the HU. *Thumbs down* .

Pioneer should put up a disclaimer on their products stating that their 'Random' feature doesn't work the way most people expect it to work.
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Old 3rd March 2008, 14:53   #28
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!!!!DO TAKE A BACKUP BEFORE THIS!!!!

Create this batch file (fixorder.bat) in root directory on USB drive
Quote:
@echo off
mkdir "%1\0000temp"
for %%2 in ("%1\*.def") do move "%%~f2" "%1\0000temp"
for /F "delims=:" %%3 in ('dir /B /ON "%1\0000temp"') do move "%1\0000temp\%%3" "%1"
rd /Q "%1\0000temp"
:exit

then run this command:

Quote:
g:
cd \
for /R /D %1 in (.) do call \fixorder %~fs1
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Old 4th March 2008, 11:38   #29
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This thread has unwittingly become a command line script programming class! Keep it up, @Netfreakbombay, you are doing a world of good to the software community - most programmers don't have a clue about scripting!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
This is ridiculous!! I was hoping this wasn't the answer ... manually, and then put 00000.mp3 in each folder, and then transfer the files themselves.
Well, the least we can say, @vebmetal, is that you are someone special! Maybe TBHP should have a separate thread with desirability / undesirability of features, which should be given wide publicity to the HU designers around the world.

Most of my life I have been rather eclectic in my music listening - I don't care about the order of appearance and shuffling and 'random'. If I don't like what is being played, I skip to the next track or channel, and in extreme circumstances shut the blessed thing down if no source has anything to my liking. For me it is about listening to music, and not about the technicalities and process of it. While driving, it is about driving; music fills the interludes while I concentrate on driving! But that's just me. My philosophy: Gaana suno, bhai, faltu mein magaz-pachchi kyon!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
Also Deralte since you are still making cracks about it, do confirm whether you know of any ... I would wager apart from Pioneer HUs (or let's just say HUs since I don't know whether other brand HUs are as stupid or not) you would not find any.
Maybe my thinking is clouded by designers' dogma, but in the absence of controller MIPS, most players just skip to the next physical track as the button is wired to a specific function which, in OO-speak, is not 'overloaded' or 'reconfigured' based on another setting! It adds spice to the 'random' scheme, since no one minds the next Tamil song playing if the previous one was not an enjoyable Tamil one, instead of half-expecting a Swiss Yodel or Moroccan tribal chant to start. In some players it does, but in those this is maybe at the cost of some other features. The total LoC is anyway controlled in the interest of ROM real estate, since one doesn't put a Pentium in an HU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vebmetal View Post
^ I know that it is a common feature among Pioneer HUs in general, and not just my model. It's just infuriating how ... is this a common annoyance across all brands?
Most 'users' listen to music without slicing and dissecting features; 99% don't even care to read through the feature list before buying.
Ditto for HU designers/manufacturers. Most do "incremental development", adding minimally to mature field-proven conventional features. Unless someone proves that conducting unending user surveys and so called 'changing user tastes and expectations' definitely increases sales numbers, the conventional approach is supplemented by uncomplicated 'idiot-proof' features (avoiding preferences of Indian software development community)!!!
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Old 4th March 2008, 11:50   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praveen_v View Post
Since the flash discs are memory based and hence have memory address. So the HU might be reading from the starting address and progress till it comes to the end. So now the tracks will be accessed in order in which windows decided to put it memory and not the sorted way.
The flash disk appear as a conventional disk directory to the HU. The internal device driver in the FD returns 'sectors' (sets of bytes) that belong to a certain file. HU controller does not directly access the Flash ROM of the flask disk.
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