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Old 7th May 2008, 00:21   #1
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Default ICE suggestions needed for Alto

Ok time has come that i get my car ICED. Have listened to a lot of setups in past 2 - 3 months different brand speakers, amps and what not.
Normally what we get to listen here in Chandigarh is BOOM BOOM BOOM from 2 block away. Check the pic below what we get here.

But after hearing some good brand speakers and subs and reading here too, decided to almost do DIY myself by sourcing good equipment.

In past few months have listened to the following brand speakers in my city-> Chandigarh:
1. JBL GTO 607C - Good VFM considering they cost 4700 with B/W. Get little harsh on high volumes though.

2. Infinity Reference Series - Again good components but didn't find them to be much different from 607C

3. Some Illusion(don't exactly know what model) - Nice sounding, Good midbass.

4. DLS - Dont know the model number but best sounding of all the above. Costs around 9K-10K.

Now i can spend around ~8-9K for components. Any other suggestion on which components to go for will be appreciated.

Head Unit:
Now comes the HU part. Maximum i can spend is 8K. USB is a must. Pioneer is out of the list due to lot of problems like randomize etc etc. That leaves the options to JVC and Kenwood. I like the new 2008 kenwood series so most probably will go for that. any other suggestions regarding HU ?

Amps / Subs:
Have heard a lot of desi amp Alpine, Glider, Nakamichi, Soundblaster and what not. Chandigarh is flooded with them. Some good branded amp i have heard are kenwood 8401 and JBL 300.1 and 75.4. Both JBL amps are good. The 75.4 is a very rare find though. My friend got once recently. I like the good power but have to turn down treble sometimes. But very good overall.
Any other 4ch amp within the budget of 5K - 6K for powering the components.

Sub is one of the hardest thing to decide because i don't want the sub to play too much harsh n loud. It should blend perfectly with music and should not be booomy at high volumes. At the same time i want it to play loud and do TIGHT boom boom which should not give headache. 90% of the time it will not be in BOOM BOOM mode. Just plain and simple SQ.
I have heard all pioneer, JBL, JVC, kenwood, BOSS blah blah couldn't find a good one that satisfies my need OR maybe be due to the enclosure we get here the subs doesnt sound good.

To power the sub i will need another amp probably a MONO. So a good mono @12k will be good for that.

Installation / DAMPING / Wiring:
Again as compos will go in front door i would need to damp the front doors and boot. Dont wanna end up spending 10k just for the damping so economical damping product will be good. Price and suggestions are welcomed.

Same goes for the wiring. Don't like the DESI BOSS or JBL, but also do not want to spend just 10k on wiring. Some good wiring even house-hold will do the job but it should be good so that I don't miss the listening pleasure of components and subs.

I think i have covered almost every thing except for install which will be a DIY so i don't need to pay myself except for the stuff used like spacer rings etc..

So let the suggestions flow through this thread

P.S. Install will take place in 2 stages.

1st phase: HU, Components, amp, 2 front doors Damping
2nd phase: MONO amp and Subs and boot damp if needed.
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ICE suggestions needed for Alto-250607_1628.jpg  

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Old 7th May 2008, 01:28   #2
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You would be doing the cutting-shutting on the doors for the 6.5" comps yourself?
A Blau 4 channel would also be an option in the 5-6K range. Try getting a 75.4 or equivalent power amp. You could drop the mono amp, and add the budget to get a good 4channel to drive both comps and the sub.
A decent amp wiring kit should cost you 2-3K. You might need some extra speaker wire.
If you liked the DLS set, go for it. More so since it is 'only' 1K above budget.
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Old 7th May 2008, 09:32   #3
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IMHO the following might click your taste and budget

HU : Kenwood 5039U = 8.5K
Component: Illusion EL6.1 (one of the best & VFM comps available)= 6.5K
Amp : JBL 75.4 (if you can get it)
Damping : front 2 doos = 3.5K
Sub: JBL 12 Inch Sealed Subwoofer Box - CS1204 : 8K (W b&w)
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Old 7th May 2008, 10:29   #4
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For Power you can use any Oxygen free copper wiring from the big companies (Finolex etc.,)
Use a thick wire (4 gauge) and there will be no problemo.
as for the signal wires, I think compo's come with their signal wires which will carry audio signal from the HU/Amp to them.

Now for the connection from HU to the AMP, you need to have a good shielded cable.
I have heard that monster etc., make shielded cables.
Local cables are not very well shielded.


If you want true DUI get good quality copper cable(16 gauge should do maybe), or similar, and wrap aluminum foil around the cable. Back in college we used to make very low quality wiring good quality wiring by this trick.
Its a proper Jugaad, but you actually have no option if monster etc., are very expensive.

Do not skimp on the signal wiring as the chain is as good as the weakest link. I have seen 40K installs with power and signal wiring running side by side, with the signal wiring having no shielding.

That said, I think many local brands also make shielded speaker wires. you will have to search. How good is the copper in them? Well I can only guess.

coming to the AMP, I think JBL took out another amp which is cheaper and almost as good as the 75.4, Sam will have more idea.

Lastly about the components, well I am not a big fan of conventional component system.
the reason is that all the bass is in the rear, and they can't even do midbass properly, so sound is treble heavy and if you decrease treble you go too flat, with a thump at rear.

So my alternative(which you may or may not like) is to hook up 4 speakers in the front soundstage
2 6" and 2 4" speakers(atleast in Indica there is provision).
My setup has 4 speakers in front which are in parallel to each other, and 2 3-way in rear which I use just for BASS(I use Pioneers built in LPF to send only 100Hz and below to 3-way).
I don't have any amp, so if I exceed 50-60% volume the sound goes bad, but since I do not listen at high volumes I hardly face that problem.
Since you will use an amp you can enjoy higher volumes.
Having 4 speakers in front(instead of 2 tweeters and 2 speakers) will give you a very very rich sound. But there is a chance that you may not like this setup too, so buddy, you can try listening to this and then decide what you want.

Last but not the least, I have listened to many entry level sub 4-5K subs, and they all sound the same. Depending on who makes how much commission on what sub, different installers will tell you this is better than that. Its no rocket science to make an entry level speaker which plays below 50Hz. The magic is in the box.
If you like tight bass, go for sealed, if you like thump go for ported. If you go for sealed solution all in one eg the JBL thingy the cost is around 6K approx.
If you are not a thumper forgo the sub altogether and get 3 way speakers in the box. They do the midbass much better. But you lose out all Low Bass and LBM will kill you.
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Old 7th May 2008, 10:45   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yayaati View Post
IMHO the following might click your taste and budget

HU : Kenwood 5039U = 8.5K
Sub: JBL 12 Inch Sealed Subwoofer Box - CS1204 : 8K (W b&w)
How much would the above two items cost in grey?
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Old 7th May 2008, 10:47   #6
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Hi Abhibh.
How do u propose to install the 6.5" at front?
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Old 7th May 2008, 10:57   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
How much would the above two items cost in grey?
No clue about grey, bro

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhar's View Post
Hi Abhibh.
How do u propose to install the 6.5" at front?
@ Dhar please check the post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/810681-post1.html

The best place/way to install components in the front doors of Alto

Last edited by Technocrat : 8th May 2008 at 16:08. Reason: Please use multiquote instead of posting back to back
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Old 7th May 2008, 11:09   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If you want true DUI get good quality copper cable(16 gauge should do maybe)
In about 15 years of drinking and driving, the above is something I have never tried.
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Old 7th May 2008, 11:10   #9
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A perfect post you've made here Abhibh. You've done some good thinking and research before typing in and taking the plunge. Great!

Illusion components are great VFM according to many here. Bull audio is coming out with some good pricing, see if you can listen to them and find out what it's worth. My favourite; Hertz DSK/ESK components have to be mentioned here. As Gunbir doesn't deal with them anymore, find out if you can get a pair of them from somewhere. I've heard from the rumor mills that Hertz and Audison is going to be launched in a very big scale by some other distributor.
Eye thru all the Alto component install threads and find out the best suitable way (for you) to install it in the front door.

Other than the desi Kenwoods, the real ones are some good VFM amps. Blau have some good ones to offer as well. Alpine is also dropping it's prices slowly and their monoblock for 10k (b&w) is a good entry level option.
Also, keep an eye on the classified section here as it may sometime pop up with very good options.

Why have you kept out Alpine out of HUs? Have a look into their latest lineup before you conclude.

Get an ID subwoofer. Nothing to beat it for my ears.

Damping can be done for front doors by using some damping sheets+textile waste+cardboard+sponge etc.. It will not kill your budget but will offer some basic good damping. Later, as you can put more money in, go for better damping job with more damping sheets.
Boot damping is a must. Use the above combo of damping materials for now.

You haven't mentioned about rear fill speakers. If you are buying one, then get some entry level coaxials from the same series as the compos.

Happy ICEing!
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Old 7th May 2008, 11:30   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yayaati View Post
@ Dhar please check the post http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/810681-post1.html

The best place/way to install components in the front doors of Alto
Yes buddy. I know that. There are other installs as well. Like the one in JTrider's Alto.
But I asked to know whether he is ready to cut the door panel considering that he is planning a DIY install.
Or may be abhibh has some other ideas as well.
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Old 8th May 2008, 16:05   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
You would be doing the cutting-shutting on the doors for the 6.5" comps yourself?
I must admit this will be something I haven't tried, but seeing the audio scene in Chd. there is NO WAY I will hand over my car to them. If I have to get it screwed up only, then better me than them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
If you liked the DLS set, go for it. More so since it is 'only' 1K above budget.
I shall, probably.....LBM was kind enough to give an audition yesterday. Tell you guys, LBM has the most sexy midbasses I've ever heard! The DLS absolutely shines! No doubt they are wonderful speakers!
But first I want to audition some illusions too as their components costing 6k are told beat everything upto 12k.
Do the 6k wale components have less treble then the Illusion Horn speakers? The Horns had just too much treble. So much that it was hitting Mine and Manikjeet's temple very sharply. I will prefer something laid back. I read on the internet that silk dome tweeter is softer. So, Electra = silk dome?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yayaati View Post
IMHO the following might click your taste and budget

HU : Kenwood 5039U = 8.5K
Component: Illusion EL6.1 (one of the best & VFM comps available)= 6.5K
Amp : JBL 75.4 (if you can get it)
Damping : front 2 doos = 3.5K
Sub: JBL 12 Inch Sealed Subwoofer Box - CS1204 : 8K (W b&w)
Thanks buddy.
Already considering the Kenwood cuz don't find any other worthy alternatives to it in same price band.
Anybody in Chd. or areas around willing to give me a proper demo of the illusion speakers?
Yes, 75.4 can still be found at one or two places. I'll probably pick that only.
Ouch! I thought damping was around 1k per door. So it's 1.75k per door. Which material? Dynamat or Noisekill?
Thanks for the Sub suggestion, will demo it. I have a fair idea on performance of a GT4-12. How does CS1204 compare to that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
For Power you can use any Oxygen free copper wiring from the big companies (Finolex etc.,)
Use a thick wire (4 gauge) and there will be no problemo.
Already my wallet has started to cry fearing the upcoming ICE purchase.
I think I will take your suggestion TSK. Whatever money that can be saved, must be saved

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
as for the signal wires, I think compo's come with their signal wires which will carry audio signal from the HU/Amp to them.

Now for the connection from HU to the AMP, you need to have a good shielded cable.
I have heard that monster etc., make shielded cables.
Local cables are not very well shielded.
Kithe yaar.....
No monster dealer here! All I get is stupid Boss and Jbl wiring :-(. I didn't know they provided enough length speaker wires to extend till amps.
Chalo more money saved! Thank you experienced ICE'rs. Keep the money saving tips coming along......
But one doubt, how good is wire quality that is provided free? Same thing like home Home Audio where the free wires are advised to be changed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If you want true DUI get good quality copper cable(16 gauge should do maybe), or similar, and wrap aluminum foil around the cable. Back in college we used to make very low quality wiring good quality wiring by this trick.
Its a proper Jugaad, but you actually have no option if monster etc., are very expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Lastly about the components, well I am not a big fan of conventional component system.
the reason is that all the bass is in the rear, and they can't even do midbass properly, so sound is treble heavy and if you decrease treble you go too flat, with a thump at rear.
Conventional component system? I'm sorry what is that? Why does Midbass not work properly in them?
(To be honest, I was pleasantly surprised and pleased with LBM's system yesterday in this regard, just as I have written above. Is his system the conventional component system types? Or I'm missing something here? )

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So my alternative(which you may or may not like) is to hook up 4 speakers in the front soundstage
2 6" and 2 4" speakers(atleast in Indica there is provision).
My setup has 4 speakers in front which are in parallel to each other, and 2 3-way in rear which I use just for BASS(I use Pioneers built in LPF to send only 100Hz and below to 3-way).
I don't have any amp, so if I exceed 50-60% volume the sound goes bad, but since I do not listen at high volumes I hardly face that problem.
Since you will use an amp you can enjoy higher volumes.
Having 4 speakers in front(instead of 2 tweeters and 2 speakers) will give you a very very rich sound. But there is a chance that you may not like this setup too, so buddy, you can try listening to this and then decide what you want.
Holy moly! How is it that the stupid internal amp of the HU is powering all this so much well? Last I checked crutchfield, they were stating most HU's have power power ratings like 18Wx4.
Are you pulling my leg
OR
Is this another money saving trick that I can conveniently use (to eliminate need of amp for front components)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Last but not the least, I have listened to many entry level sub 4-5K subs, and they all sound the same. Depending on who makes how much commission on what sub, different installers will tell you this is better than that. Its no rocket science to make an entry level speaker which plays below 50Hz. The magic is in the box.
LOL!
That confirms it! Beloved moderator tsk is being naughty naughty!
What did I do Sirji? Why pulling my leg? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
Bull audio is coming out with some good pricing, see if you can listen to them and find out what it's worth.
But aren't China made? Will they have good build quality and reliability? And sound? What say LBM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
My favourite; Hertz DSK/ESK components have to be mentioned here. As Gunbir doesn't deal with them anymore, find out if you can get a pair of them from somewhere. I've heard from the rumor mills that Hertz and Audison is going to be launched in a very big scale by some other distributor.
I've been told that Hertz entry level, like you state above are not good. They sound crap for the money and better compare with JBL(which is priced much lower) and Out of their product range, only Hi-Energy sounds good. Rest Dsk, esk and Mille aren't good. And HiEnergy is beyond my budget (taking the pricing of the earlier distributor as a reference)
So I think I can strike off Hertz from my list of options. Besides, no dealer in Chd./Punjab too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
Other than the desi Kenwoods, the real ones are some good VFM amps. Blau have some good ones to offer as well. Alpine is also dropping it's prices slowly and their monoblock for 10k (b&w) is a good entry level option.
Also, keep an eye on the classified section here as it may sometime pop up with very good options.
I will keep those options in Mind Sir.
But is it true that there are fakes of Kenwood too? I was leaning towards the brand as I believed it to have the least fakes in the market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
Why have you kept out Alpine out of HUs? Have a look into their latest lineup before you conclude.
Any nice and cheap HU from them that will do USB also?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
Get an ID subwoofer. Nothing to beat it for my ears.
Are you sure? I am most nervous regarding the choice of Sub now!!

I listen to a LOT of different tracks. And mostly high paced trance.
I need a Sub that can keep up with music. How good are ID in this regard? Only guy I know running ID nearby me is Gill. Sadly, I haven't been able to hook up with him till now for a demo.

Are illusions subs SQ oriented?

I have dropped plans for an SPL oriented setup few months down the line after auditioning LBM's Plutonium sub yesterday. As far as I could gather, you need to continuously fiddle with Sound settings for each and every different track played in such setups AND that an SPL oriented setup won't do fast trance at high volumes. Does GZ make an SQ oriented sub?

Budget be damned in case of subs now. VFM subs like Pioneer, Sony, JBL sounding less than ideal is perfectly ok cuz for the money, they aren't bad. But no way am I going to spend more than them and still get a less than ideal solution. Please suggest a nice solution. Even if double the budget!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
Boot damping is a must. Use the above combo of damping materials for now.
Sir, in my first install phase, only going for components in front. Damping the boot will still be required in the 1st Phase then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedzak View Post
You haven't mentioned about rear fill speakers. If you are buying one, then get some entry level coaxials from the same series as the compos.
This is my personal car and nobody else drives it. So I'm hoping to skip rears......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhar's View Post
But I asked to know whether he is ready to cut the door panel considering that he is planning a DIY install.
Or may be abhibh has some other ideas as well.
To be honest, not exactly 'ready'. Still frantically checking out the various pics again and again and asking myself, will I be able to do it??
LOL :-)
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Old 8th May 2008, 16:43   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhibh View Post
Already my wallet has started to cry fearing the upcoming ICE purchase.
I think I will take your suggestion TSK. Whatever money that can be saved, must be saved
Yes save money on power cables. Using a finolex cable will do the job for you. LBM is himself a fan of buying power cables from such companies rather than overpriced alternatives which perform equally good or in some cases worse

Quote:
Kithe yaar.....
No monster dealer here! All I get is stupid Boss and Jbl wiring :-(. I didn't know they provided enough length speaker wires to extend till amps.
Chalo more money saved! Thank you experienced ICE'rs. Keep the money saving tips coming along......
But one doubt, how good is wire quality that is provided free? Same thing like home Home Audio where the free wires are advised to be changed?
The speakers wire are decent quality. Rather than buying BOSS signal cable, I suggest you get a good quality multi strand wire(finolex again and wrap it in Roti Wrap. No leg pulling here.

Quote:
Conventional component system? I'm sorry what is that? Why does Midbass not work properly in them?
(To be honest, I was pleasantly surprised and pleased with LBM's system yesterday in this regard, just as I have written above. Is his system the conventional component system types? Or I'm missing something here? )
Actually this is from hearing entry level component system from JBL and Hertz. The sound by both is good, but I found it to be rear heavy. I am sure if you go to higher end brands this problem will be solved. for example you liked LBMs setup, right.
Moreover it may be a tuning issue with systems I listened to

Quote:
Holy moly! How is it that the stupid internal amp of the HU is powering all this so much well? Last I checked crutchfield, they were stating most HU's have power power ratings like 18Wx4.
Are you pulling my leg
OR
Is this another money saving trick that I can conveniently use (to eliminate need of amp for front components)?
Well thats why I said less than 50-60% of peak volume. The HU can just do 20Wx4. The front 2 channels of HU drive 4 speakers in parallel. In my case is 2 4" and 2 6". In component systems you would have 2 tweeters and 2 speakers.
Quote:
LOL!
That confirms it! Beloved moderator tsk is being naughty naughty!
What did I do Sirji? Why pulling my leg? 
No pulling your leg buddy. Its a fact. In entry level 10" 12" subs there is actually very little difference in the "speaker quality". The design of the box matters much more in how it will sound to you. If you look up the spec sheets of these entry level subs you will see they are similar.
Quote:
But aren't China made? Will they have good build quality and reliability? And sound? What say LBM?
Everthing is made in china nowadays. So chinese does not mean poor quality. So listen and then decide.

Quote:
I've been told that Hertz entry level, like you state above are not good. They sound crap for the money and better compare with JBL(which is priced much lower) and Out of their product range, only Hi-Energy sounds good. Rest Dsk, esk and Mille aren't good. And HiEnergy is beyond my budget (taking the pricing of the earlier distributor as a reference)
So I think I can strike off Hertz from my list of options. Besides, no dealer in Chd./Punjab too.
Hertz is not a bad brand, but I found it slightly more expensive than similar sounding competition. High end Hertz systems sound like a dream. I'm not sure why it is so. It may be the magic of Gunbir and JB, or it may be the systems also. Since you are on a money saving venture, its a wise decision.

Quote:
I will keep those options in Mind Sir.
But is it true that there are fakes of Kenwood too? I was leaning towards the brand as I believed it to have the least fakes in the market.
An installer I know in Ludhiana tells me that Kenwood and Pioneer are the most faked brands. Sony is too cheap to be faked and JVC is not really that popular that there is enough fake market.
so if you are buying grey either buy from a trusted source, or buy JVC. It is a very decent HU for the money and they have some really innovative features.

Quote:
Any nice and cheap HU from them that will do USB also?
JVC has cheap USB reading HUs

Quote:
Are you sure? I am most nervous regarding the choice of Sub now!!
I listen to a LOT of different tracks. And mostly high paced trance.
I need a Sub that can keep up with music. How good are ID in this regard? Only guy I know running ID nearby me is Gill. Sadly, I haven't been able to hook up with him till now for a demo.
Are illusions subs SQ oriented?
I have dropped plans for an SPL oriented setup few months down the line after auditioning LBM's Plutonium sub yesterday. As far as I could gather, you need to continuously fiddle with Sound settings for each and every different track played in such setups AND that an SPL oriented setup won't do fast trance at high volumes. Does GZ make an SQ oriented sub?

Budget be damned in case of subs now. VFM subs like Pioneer, Sony, JBL sounding less than ideal is perfectly ok cuz for the money, they aren't bad. But no way am I going to spend more than them and still get a less than ideal solution. Please suggest a nice solution. Even if double the budget!!
Sir, in my first install phase, only going for components in front. Damping the boot will still be required in the 1st Phase then?
For a SQ setup get a sealed box. entry level will do. Unless you want to scare people on the sector 9-10-11 route and get challaned, a sealed sub will do.
Any don't put anything Sony(speakers/sub) in your car. Most installers and Guru's are not happy with Sony quality, since they do too much cost cutting.

So as a summary of my advice
1. Get components you like after auditioning
2. Get a good amp for around 8K. There are lots of good options apart from Sony
3. Use Finolex 4 gauge for power wiring
4. Try to get monster etc., signal wire, if not possible get finolex multi strand oxygen free copper wire. Or you can even use CAT-5 cable. But make sure it does not run more than 6-7ft, or low quality amps can oscillate. I read somewhere that good amps have a zobel network inbuilt. Now many guru's are not for CAT-5. but its not expensive, and you can always try. If you think its not worth it you can go ahead with roti-wrap shielding. And remember you have to use 2 CAT-5 cables for each speaker, one for left and one for right channel. If you want a packaged solution, I am told MX audio signal cables are pretty decent.
5. Get a sub in a sealed box for around 6-7K. JBL has a sub like this, and I am sure other brands too have an entry level sub in sealed box
6. Get a JVC HU with USB. It will cost around 8K or whereabouts.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 8th May 2008 at 16:44.
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Old 9th May 2008, 11:16   #13
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I must admit this will be something I haven't tried, but seeing the audio scene in Chd. there is NO WAY I will hand over my car to them. If I have to get it screwed up only, then better me than them.
I would suggest to come down to NCR region for the same. Take a day or two off.


I shall, probably.....LBM was kind enough to give an audition yesterday. Tell you guys, LBM has the most sexy midbasses I've ever heard! The DLS absolutely shines! No doubt they are wonderful speakers!
But first I want to audition some illusions too as their components costing 6k are told beat everything upto 12k.
Do the 6k wale components have less treble then the Illusion Horn speakers? The Horns had just too much treble. So much that it was hitting Mine and Manikjeet's temple very sharply. I will prefer something laid back. I read on the internet that silk dome tweeter is softer. So, Electra = silk dome?
Thanks. But the mid bass you have heard were perfectly in sync of the sub. I was done with the help of Time Alignment. Have you have heard only the DLS mid bass you might not be saying the same. But one thing I am sure off that the Illusion Electra has more mid bass than DLS Iridium. About horns I was playing them a little loud than required so that you can understand what they can actually do. Electra is a metal dome but it is not at all bright. And saying silk`s are less bright is totally incorrect.


Anybody in Chd. or areas around willing to give me a proper demo of the illusion speakers?
You must plan a NCR trip so you can listen to lots of brand which are not available in CHD region.

Already my wallet has started to cry fearing the upcoming ICE purchase.
I think I will take your suggestion TSK. Whatever money that can be saved, must be saved
That is a royalty to visit ICE section.


Conventional component system? I'm sorry what is that? Why does Midbass not work properly in them?
(To be honest, I was pleasantly surprised and pleased with LBM's system yesterday in this regard, just as I have written above. Is his system the conventional component system types? Or I'm missing something here? )
Mine is a active setup. You can do lots of tuning and tweaking which is not present in passive setup. Tanveer is pointing out the same thing.


But aren't China made? Will they have good build quality and reliability? And sound? What say LBM?
No comments never heard them

I've been told that Hertz entry level, like you state above are not good. They sound crap for the money and better compare with JBL(which is priced much lower) and Out of their product range, only Hi-Energy sounds good. Rest Dsk, esk and Mille aren't good. And HiEnergy is beyond my budget (taking the pricing of the earlier distributor as a reference)
So I think I can strike off Hertz from my list of options. Besides, no dealer in Chd./Punjab too.
Mille and HSK is good. But I personally did not like the DSK, ESK.


Are illusions subs SQ oriented?
Yes

I have dropped plans for an SPL oriented setup few months down the line after auditioning LBM's Plutonium sub yesterday. As far as I could gather, you need to continuously fiddle with Sound settings for each and every different track played in such setups AND that an SPL oriented setup won't do fast trance at high volumes. Does GZ make an SQ oriented sub?
It was not tunning. I was just changing the sound level only. As the level of bass in every track was different. A little here and there in the source make the sub loud which was overcoming the front stage. And in some the sub was so low that I have to gain it a little. But in all this it was playing all the tracks flawlessly with some 150 BPM. Yes they have a dedicated line try visiting there website.


Budget be damned in case of subs now. VFM subs like Pioneer, Sony, JBL sounding less than ideal is perfectly ok cuz for the money, they aren't bad. But no way am I going to spend more than them and still get a less than ideal solution. Please suggest a nice solution. Even if double the budget!!
In sub section I would recommend listing to JBL subs they are quite good but installation should be good.


Sir, in my first install phase, only going for components in front. Damping the boot will still be required in the 1st Phase then?
NO

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 9th May 2008 at 11:18.
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Old 9th May 2008, 12:06   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
In about 15 years of drinking and driving, the above is something I have never tried.
Simple
1. Get 2 lengths of copper wire
2. connect wire to ignition terminals
3. hold one wire in left hand and the other wire between your teeth and let it touch you tongue
4. start engine
Enjoy.

Guys, only B&T is capable of doingthis and living to tell the tale. Do not do this.

BTW Shouldn't that read as drinking and riding given that you use a cow as vehicle. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhibh View Post
...only Hi-Energy sounds good. Rest Dsk, esk and Mille aren't good. And HiEnergy is beyond my budget (taking the pricing of the earlier distributor as a reference)
Hertz Mille is quite good but they are more expensive than Hi-Energy.
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Old 9th May 2008, 12:14   #15
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Considering that B&t's 'vehicle' is the cow
I never knew they had ignition terminals and an engine


Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Simple
1. Get 2 lengths of copper wire
2. connect wire to ignition terminals
3. hold one wire in left hand and the other wire between your teeth and let it touch you tongue
4. start engine
Enjoy.

Guys, only B&T is capable of doingthis and living to tell the tale. Do not do this.

BTW Shouldn't that read as drinking and riding given that you use a cow as vehicle. :-)



Hertz Mille is quite good but they are more expensive than Hi-Energy.
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