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Old 24th July 2008, 21:31   #16
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
I think PT7 meant 4000Hz.

PT, If you look at the energy spectrum of most music about 85% of the energy is below 4000Hz and only about 15% is above 4000Hz. With electronic music there is a bit more HF energy but the percentaage of music above 4khz is still under 20% so you see that the midbass in a 2 way system is responsible for not only much of the upper bass but also much (if not all) of the midrange.

At 4000hz the wavelength is 8.5cm hence the center to center distance between the woofer and tweeter should ideally be less than 8.5 cm (about 3.5"). Obviously in a car this is not very possible so we compromise. You can locate the tweeter on the door at a height that offers a compromise between height of soundstage and a coherent response.
That is right - I thought I had read 400Hz but its actually 4 Khz. Thanks Gunbir & Navin for correcting me.

I appreciate the detailed explanation - I think I should brush up my Audio funda again (I used to read a lot on the stuff - somewhere down the line stopped reading and forgot stuff).

I did not have funda on energy distribution - what looked (or sounded) to my ears in a couple of Cars that I auditioned (No SW. Front component with woofer in the door and tweeter on A pillar) - the way I felt was that most of the 'sound that you can hear' was from tweeter and most of the 'sound that you can feel' (Read bass / drums / low freq) was from the door - hence I did a generalization - those cars could have been incorrectly tuned also :(

Again thanks for giving dope on this one!!!

Going back to different point - timelag when woofer and tweeter are separated - i dont think its noticeable in most of the cases (and especially to my 'untuned' ears) - i think that would be more prominant in the scenario where SW is in trunk and speakers are in front - And I have noticed that (even in my car) - reversing the SW phase did sound better -but the installer insisted not to do that saying it actually reduces the life of the SW...

[Apology for a long reply]
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Old 25th July 2008, 00:49   #17
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And I have noticed that (even in my car) - reversing the SW phase did sound better -but the installer insisted not to do that saying it actually reduces the life of the SW...
Nonsense. Play with you sub phase and choose whichever way integrates better with your front stage.
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Old 25th July 2008, 11:22   #18
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I used to read a lot on the stuff - somewhere down the line stopped reading and forgot stuff
PT, you are begining to sound like me, the difference being that I did not read much to begin with - not much to forget I guess.

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-but the installer insisted not to do that saying it actually reduces the life of the SW...
Point your installer to TBHP's ICE section.
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Old 25th July 2008, 12:52   #19
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another thing I've noticed was ( compared to the same series coax's on the dash in a friend's car ) , when you use comps with the mid basses on the door, you miss a lot of mids, since most of what you're getting from the speaker is off axis , and your feet tend to get most of the music
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Old 25th July 2008, 15:33   #20
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another thing I've noticed was ( compared to the same series coax's on the dash in a friend's car ) , when you use comps with the mid basses on the door, you miss a lot of mids, since most of what you're getting from the speaker is off axis , and your feet tend to get most of the music
you will miss a lot of the stuff above 1kHz as this is the area where mid are really poor off axis.
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Old 25th July 2008, 17:16   #21
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another thing I've noticed was ( compared to the same series coax's on the dash in a friend's car ) , when you use comps with the mid basses on the door, you miss a lot of mids, since most of what you're getting from the speaker is off axis , and your feet tend to get most of the music
Thats why for dash locations or rear parcel shelf, I don't get the point in using components, when good coaxials will sound as good or better.
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Old 26th July 2008, 00:24   #22
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PT, you are begining to sound like me, the difference being that I did not read much to begin with - not much to forget I guess.
Yupp - I used to be a major audio freak - Did a lot of reading up on HTiBs and HTSes. All the audio compression / decompression - logics - AC3, Dolby Digital / Dolby NR / Dolby Prologic / Dolby Prologic II / DTS / SDDS etc etc (I heard of Dolby Prologic IIx recently!!! thats new!!!). Even still I (manage to) sound most knowledgible but its when I come to forum like this and meet other folks who know way more -- I think 'Jaane kahan gaye voh din' types

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Thats why for dash locations or rear parcel shelf, I don't get the point in using components, when good coaxials will sound as good or better.
Hmmm...When my installer advised me to go for Coaxes for my WagonR's dash stock location - I was skeptical - I guess he was right in saying so!!!
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Old 26th July 2008, 09:38   #23
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Yeah Champ, The pioneer HU costed me around 19K (Grey). I am waiting for the other upgrades, then I will post the detailed report. As of now, I am running the Speakers from the internal Amp, and it is really a very good thing. I have tried to adjust the equalizer and I can reduce the rattling to a great extend. Yes definitely having the equalizer control at your disposable, it is very good to customize your sound to your liking. Now I got the real worth of JBL GTO 607c which was missing all thee days.

Thats an added advantage.
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Old 28th July 2008, 00:54   #24
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Default Xover freq 2k for Rainbow Audio?

Sorry for jumping on this topic again, but I just noticed on Rainbow Audio's site that the X'over freq for their 2 channel component system is 2k!!! Is this normal?

<<This is for part # CS 260.30 Reference>>
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Old 28th July 2008, 18:18   #25
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Yeah Champ, The pioneer HU costed me around 19K (Grey). I am waiting for the other upgrades, then I will post the detailed report.
Thanks vrrraju ji
Excellent choice and an excellent HU. You made me jealous bhai
Would wait for a detailed report from you.
Happy listening and safe driving.
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Old 29th July 2008, 01:23   #26
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Sorry for jumping on this topic again, but I just noticed on Rainbow Audio's site that the X'over freq for their 2 channel component system is 2k!!! Is this normal?
While not very common, its not very rare either.
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Old 13th August 2008, 11:50   #27
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Default PMR Swift ICE upgrade - 2nd Phase

The second phase of the upgrade completed. It was taken up on Monday (11-August) and it took close to 8 hours. I can still feel the pain for standing that long. Here is the report of the same.

After the searching and going about the threads of this forum carefully and getting the help and equipment from the guru's like naveenji, Sam (I think he will be most happiest person - another JBL Install), Gunbir Paaji, B&T, LBM, DerAlte, Yash(rider60) and all the fellow BHPians. I take this opportunity to thank everybody who helped me out to get the best of ICE.

Place - Sprocket - Hyderabad
Date - 11th August 2008
Time taken - About 8 hours
Installer : Hamid (he has 18 years of experience)


Equipment details:

Head Unit : Pioneer P80RS
Front Components: JBL GTO - 608C (New Series)
Rear Co-axails : JBL GTO - 638 (New Series)
Amp -1 : JBL GTO 1004 - For front and rear fills
Amp -2 : JBL GTO 3501 - For the Sub woofer
Sub : JBL GTO 1204BR - JBL Sealed Sub woofer
Power Amp Kit : Connection Audison 4 AWG - thanks to Gunbir paaji
Distribution Box: Connection Audison - BDB51
RCA Interconnects : Monster Junior range
Speaker Cables : Monster Speaker cable - 16WG
Damping also done

Test tracks during the installation and tunning: Jenifier Lopez, Vanesa Mae (villion player - destiny) and others.

Sound : Great WoW, is liked by many, If naveenji's son sings My hump song, my 2.5 years old son is singing the telugu version of the song.

I need your help in getting some of the things to be fixed and loose ends to be tied. For audition you can PM me.
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Old 13th August 2008, 12:46   #28
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Congrats!!

Waiting for the pictures and detailed review.
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Old 13th August 2008, 14:21   #29
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Originally Posted by vrrraju View Post
The second phase of the upgrade completed.I take this opportunity to thank everybody who helped me out to get the best of ICE.
Equipment details:

Head Unit : Pioneer P80RS
Front Components: JBL GTO - 608C (New Series)
Rear Co-axails : JBL GTO - 638 (New Series)
Amp -1 : JBL GTO 1004 - For front and rear fills
Amp -2 : JBL GTO 3501 - For the Sub woofer
Sub : JBL GTO 1204BR - JBL Sealed Sub woofer
Power Amp Kit : Connection Audison 4 AWG - thanks to Gunbir paaji
Distribution Box: Connection Audison - BDB51
RCA Interconnects : Monster Junior range
Speaker Cables : Monster Speaker cable - 16WG
Damping also done
Test tracks during the installation and tunning: Jenifier Lopez, Vanesa Mae (villion player - destiny) and others.
Congrats!
Great effort vrrraju,hope its 8 hours of pain and millions of bliss!
What damping material did you go for?How much of it was needed?Where are the installation pics and the break-up of the cost involved?
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Old 13th August 2008, 17:33   #30
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Congrats!
Great effort vrrraju,hope its 8 hours of pain and millions of bliss!
What damping material did you go for?How much of it was needed?Where are the installation pics and the break-up of the cost involved?
Thanks a lot!!! They used the damping material, the installer said it is wurth, they cut a sheet of 4ft X 2 ft in small patches and applied to all the door even the hatch. And that was just sufficient to dampen the things to great extend. I think it costed me around 300 per sq ft. I think I paid more for this

The total cost of the system came about 57K (excluding HU and Power Amp kit), on the JBL it was 15% discount on MRP. I need to check the bill to give the exact break up, anyhow I will post it along with the detail report.

I will update with the photographs very soon. I need to take the post installation pics.

Last edited by vrrraju : 13th August 2008 at 17:34. Reason: forget
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