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Old 22nd July 2008, 14:43   #1
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Default Pimping My Ride Swift ICE Upgrade

After going through countless hours of spending time in ICE section of Team BHP and consulting with Guru's like Naveenji, Deralte, SAM, B&T and Fellow BHPian Rider60. Finally took up the ICE upgrade for Swift in Phases. So find the time, update the HU with a Pioneer P80. So the coming phases would be damping and adding Amps and Woofer. Some tweaking on the rear fills too. Some pics of the Pioneer P80 doing the job up front.

Current Setup:

Pioneer P80 HU
JBL GTO 607c - Front Components. (Setup from Previous ICE)
JBL GTO 636E - Rear Co-axails. (Setup from Previous ICE)

Thanks a lot to all Gurujis.

Experience: Good when compared to my previous setup with Kenwood HU.
Ratting as if a snake is inside my car when I put the HU's volume at 25% of the total. So damping is a must.

Some Pics
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Old 22nd July 2008, 15:17   #2
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You should do the damping if not on all doors then must do at least on the front doors. I am also using P80Rs in Swift and it is a very good HU with excellent SQ. Enjoy your ICE and congrats for the ICE upgrade.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 15:28   #3
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Yeah damping the doors makes a hell lot of a difference.BTW congrats on the new ICE .
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Old 22nd July 2008, 20:30   #4
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Hey, congrats! Thats also a splendid HU
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Old 22nd July 2008, 22:27   #5
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hi all,
does the p80 hu support usb or auxillary input.pls let me know.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 23:17   #6
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Confused:

Isnt the location of tweeter too low? from the pics I am getting impression that the location of tweeter would be approx middle of the door - that way the sound stage is not elevated properly.

A couple of inches lower and would have made no difference from a Coax (Rather a good quality coax)
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Old 23rd July 2008, 09:20   #7
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Manjith, Yes the P80 supports the Auxillary input in two ways. One of them it has 3.5mm stereo jack can be connected. It is not exactly infront but it is at the bottom, the disadvantage it in this case the HU will always be in open position. And another way of connecting the Aux input is by the use of AUX Adapter which connects to the IP Bus at the rear. It is an RCA stereo interface to IP bus.

I am not sure of whether it supports USB interface, though it is an IPOD adaptor ready that means you will have to buy the IPOD Adaptor CB-100IB to connect this through the IP Bus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pt7 View Post
Confused:

Isnt the location of tweeter too low? from the pics I am getting impression that the location of tweeter would be approx middle of the door - that way the sound stage is not elevated properly.

A couple of inches lower and would have made no difference from a Coax (Rather a good quality coax)
pt7, Actually when I installed the Components, gurus suggested me that it is always better to have tweeters to be as close as speakers. So I installed that way.

Another point which was kept in mind was Swift has a small opening their in the middle of the door so what ever projections on the back side are tucked in. And since the tweeter comes with I-mount system, which allows to direct the tweeters at the listeners. So I don't think that the sound stage is compromised.

Last edited by aah78 : 24th July 2008 at 03:49. Reason: Posts merged. Please use MULTI-QUOTE.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 10:18   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt7 View Post
Confused:

Isnt the location of tweeter too low? from the pics I am getting impression that the location of tweeter would be approx middle of the door
Exactly,IMO the tweeter location is far too low.Although the Gurus will be able to suggest the optimum position for mounting tweeters,I think mounting it on the A-pillars would have been the best possible idea.

At the end of the day,if ICE installation makes the owner happy,then there is no point in ruminating further.

By the way,how much did your Pioneer head unit cost ?
A detailed report is awaited vrrraju ji.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 10:32   #9
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I love the way that HU looks! Simple and striking. Bonus is that is sounds good too

Damping the front doors will take it to the next level. Enjoy your setup!
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Old 23rd July 2008, 10:38   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vrrraju View Post
pt7, Actually when I installed the Components, gurus suggested me that it is always better to have tweeters to be as close as speakers. So I installed that way.
And that is the correct way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatechamp View Post
Exactly,IMO the tweeter location is far too low.Although the Gurus will be able to suggest the optimum position for mounting tweeters,I think mounting it on the A-pillars would have been the best possible idea.
A pillar mounting sure does elevate the sound stage, but it also results in a disjointed sound. Try moving your tweeters closer to your mids and you will find the top end sparkle will reduce, while the coherence, mid/high integration will increase.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 11:23   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Try moving your tweeters closer to your mids and you will find the top end sparkle will reduce, while the coherence, mid/high integration will increase.
angling the tweeter upwards a bit might help improve sparkle.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 23:57   #12
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Gunbirji, thora different opinion rakhta hoon...

Well yes, in theory it is right to have all the speakers (Woofer / Mid & Tweeter) near to each other to hear a coherent sound effect. Thats why higher end HTs towers do have in a single tower all the speakers instead of having a Sub Box separate and other speakers separate.

In a different point of view, my experience says that when you have 2 way x-over iwth a Midbass (Acting as woofer also when there is no separate SW) & Tweeter - most of the frequency range (Except for the ones below400Hz or so) is routed through tweeter - that includes a whole range of snare drums to voice to all string instruments etc. In such a case the primary job of midbass is to provide low frequency boom. Here is when i think keeping the tweeter and mb separate does not make much of a difference - tweeter should be used to elevate sound stage.

Had it been a 3 way system - I would definitely want Tweeter & Midbass to move closer to the listening position while woofer can still be at a lower level. My 2 cents.
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Old 24th July 2008, 01:12   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt7 View Post
Gunbirji, thora different opinion rakhta hoon...

Well yes, in theory it is right to have all the speakers (Woofer / Mid & Tweeter) near to each other to hear a coherent sound effect. Thats why higher end HTs towers do have in a single tower all the speakers instead of having a Sub Box separate and other speakers separate.

In a different point of view, my experience says that when you have 2 way x-over iwth a Midbass (Acting as woofer also when there is no separate SW) & Tweeter - most of the frequency range (Except for the ones below400Hz or so) is routed through tweeter - that includes a whole range of snare drums to voice to all string instruments etc. In such a case the primary job of midbass is to provide low frequency boom. Here is when i think keeping the tweeter and mb separate does not make much of a difference - tweeter should be used to elevate sound stage.
Sure, we are all entitled to our opinions and I can respect yours. I have been though the phase when a higher soundstage was more important to me than coherence. But things change, and so did my taste.

I didn't deny that a tweeter on A pillar does in fact elevate the sound stage. In fact I agreed that it does; but like I said, it sounds disjointed to me. And the extra gain and smear created by the glass and hard dash plastics goes to further create something that people often mistake for a "higher sound stage". Last but not the least, distance between these drivers creates phasing issues, which can be addressed to some extent by inverting phase but not to my satisfaction.

End of the day, there is no absolute. no wrong or right. You prefer a higher sound stage, I prefer coherence and a high sound stage. But I also want width, depth, realism and dynamics to name a few. Who knows, maybe I will achieve this... maybe I wont. I will keep trying. Car audio holds many challenges I am yet to overcome. Thats the fun of it. Isn't it

BTW, 400Hz xo is not something I have seen in most 2 ways in car audio. Since you suggested its commonplace, care to suggest a few examples?

Last edited by gunbir : 24th July 2008 at 01:13.
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Old 24th July 2008, 13:08   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt7 View Post
In such a case the primary job of midbass is to provide low frequency boom. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
BTW, 400Hz xo is not something I have seen in most 2 ways in car audio.
I think PT7 meant 4000Hz.

PT, If you look at the energy spectrum of most music about 85% of the energy is below 4000Hz and only about 15% is above 4000Hz. With electronic music there is a bit more HF energy but the percentaage of music above 4khz is still under 20% so you see that the midbass in a 2 way system is responsible for not only much of the upper bass but also much (if not all) of the midrange.

At 4000hz the wavelength is 8.5cm hence the center to center distance between the woofer and tweeter should ideally be less than 8.5 cm (about 3.5"). Obviously in a car this is not very possible so we compromise. You can locate the tweeter on the door at a height that offers a compromise between height of soundstage and a coherent response.
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Old 24th July 2008, 14:17   #15
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Well said - Navin.
Good explaination...
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