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Old 28th July 2008, 12:21   #1
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Default Minimum budget ICE upgrade for Safari

After extensive use for a few hours, I must say I am dissapointed with the stock ice.
My gripes
1. Treble is too bright. If I lower the treble, I loose richness, if I increase it it overpowers everything else
2. Bass is missing : If I increase bass the sound starts to "distort". Linkin park shadow of the day really demonstrates this properly.
3. Mid and Mid bass are non existant : Treble and highs overpower the mid ranges which are non existent in anyways


Now I am wondering what do I do to make it better.
I have an offer for JBL CS 12" for 2600(inclusive box).
I can purchase a 4ch amp, hook it up to the woofer(2 channels) and front two channels can power the front speakers.
This is the cheapest method I can think off. But a 12" in woofer may not cure my hunger for mid bass. I am not a low bass guy. So how about 2 8" woofers in a box? Is that better?

I have a tight budget of 5-6K(can stretch a little more). Brand does not matter, all that matters is good quality mid bass. I listen to lot of rock, so if base guitar is missing it kills the music. I can forgo low low bass, but the 100Hz area is crucial.
I listen to mp3s at around 160-192kbps primarily.

Stock HU is Alpine 9870. Any idea how much can I trade it in for(it has ipod cable) for a JVC DVD unit with usb like a 7506 etc.,
My grouse with the HU(apart from lack of features) is that the volume adjustment is tricky. For example at times 3 is too low and 4 is a little too loud when you want to listen to music at low volume.
Is there a way to modify the Ipod cable so that you can read music from a pendrive or something? I have no plans of ipod

Last edited by tsk1979 : 28th July 2008 at 12:23.
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Old 28th July 2008, 12:32   #2
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I can attest to the fact that the 9870 has excellent drive. plays my hertz dieci's very loud. goes upto volume 20 before audible distortion cuts in ( at which point it is quite loud , and the indica door panels are joining in )
You might want to tune the HU properly as well

The unknown here would be the safari's bigger size, that may be the reason to the perceived lack of volume. but then again, any other HU will have the same issue ( if not more , since generally Alpine HU's are claimed to have the most drive)

I say upgrade the stock speakers, check if there are any bass blockers. I think the OE speakers are at fault here. the method of mounting used - on the plastic door panels , and that too with insulation between the sides of the baffle ( the slots for the stock speaker grille leak air , and with it , bass ).

If SQ( the warmth in the mids especially) is what you want , upgrade the speakers first, and then some tweaks with the speaker installation, maybe some damping as well
If convenience, then get a pio HU. I've learnt to adjust - i bought a 100 CD spindle , and one of them "CD books" which takes 80 CD's from big bazaar
If Bass , then the sub, obviously
I never found the volume levels an issue, but the lack of a knob is though

Last edited by greenhorn : 28th July 2008 at 12:40.
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Old 28th July 2008, 12:42   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
My grouse with the HU(apart from lack of features) is that the volume adjustment is tricky. For example at times 3 is too low and 4 is a little too loud when you want to listen to music at low volume.
This problem can be taken care when a amp is connected.
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Old 28th July 2008, 12:44   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
1. Treble is too bright.
2. Bass is missing
3. Mid and Mid bass are non existant :
I have an offer for JBL CS 12" for 2600(inclusive box).
I can purchase a 4ch amp..This is the cheapest method I can think off.
So how about 2 8" woofers in a box? Is that better?
I have a tight budget of 5-6K I can forgo low low bass, but the 100Hz area is crucial. I listen to mp3s at around 160-192kbps primarily.
Stock HU is Alpine 9870. Is there a way to modify the Ipod cable so that you can read music from a pendrive or something? I have no plans of ipod
Budget 6K incl of the 2600 for the JBL CS12" bxoed woofer?
If so you have 3400 left. This wont get you a good new 4ch. amp so maybe something from classifieds might work.

1. When you are getting a decent 12" woofer with box fro 2600 why bother buying 2 8" woofers?
2. Once you get an amp the Alpine 9870 will be relived from driving the front speakers so you can adjust the amp to suit. Also the front speakers will be relived from handling the low bass so if the amp has the controls we can pump up the 70-100Hz area by 1-2db on the amp.

No the 420i cable cannot be modified for a pen drive.

Do this in stages.
Find cheap Pio 6300 or JBL GT5 or Balu GT4 or Kenwood 840x amp.
Add amp and sub to system , tune to taste and see if it works for you.
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Old 28th July 2008, 12:48   #5
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Tanveer

if you are on budget please do it in stages then.

Remember you need front compos + some decent 6x9s+ a subwoofer to have fun listening to your fav music.

You might wanna audition Rainbow compos for front(they are nice sounding + total VFM) and you might try kenwood 4 channel amp(i forgot the number) and you will be fine.

Just plan things and start with front compos.

My 2 cents
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Old 28th July 2008, 13:03   #6
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Step by step sounds nice.
Since I am not a low bass guy, I think I will first hookup the amp and see if the sound improves.
After that I am torn between CS 12" or a component set.
If I was into low bass, then definitely 12" makes sense. Therefore the double mindedness regarding the subwoofer.
Lets say I stretch my budget a little.
What 4ch amps would I get in 5500? I am interested in amp purchase with BW, the subwoofer price is without BW.
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Old 28th July 2008, 13:14   #7
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Some very good advices already here.
My quarter pound,
To get better midbass and midrange, there's no use spending on subwoofers. 12" or 8" unless you have dedicated amps, custom crossovers and speakers etc.. Well, it will not come in this budget for sure.
So, the best for you now is to get some good speakers up front. For hardrock kind a listening, I'd recommend you give a listen to JBL power series, they're amazing. Then you can drive to Gunbir and check out the Bull and rainbows. They're a bit laid back, but many love their music to be that way. Bull is very much a VFM range.

A 4channel amp seems to be very much necessary in your setup. So, don't forget to grab one which gives something around 75W stable (atleast) on each channel.

Pick up that sub. Can be used and better results achieved when you have other parts sorted out.

The best way to go up is step by step if the budget is limited. Don't fall into "I want everything at once with this money" thoughts.
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Old 28th July 2008, 13:17   #8
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Quote:
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T
You might wanna audition Rainbow compos for front(they are nice sounding + total VFM)
BTW,i meant Bull Audio Compos,i have started forgetting the names maybe.
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Old 28th July 2008, 13:41   #9
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I dont think these come with bass blockers; not in mine anyway.

What I am worried about is more rattles! It will rattle when the speakers through those low.
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Old 28th July 2008, 14:30   #10
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Won't a three way coaxial round speaker give better mid bass than a subwoofer which will just enhance the "thump".
That way I can buy an amp and some good 3ways(4K budget without BW), and get done within 8K.
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Old 28th July 2008, 14:37   #11
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I dont think there would be a significant difference in the bass output of a three way and two way of the same diameter. A bigget speaker , if possible would be a better option
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Old 28th July 2008, 15:34   #12
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Tanveer,

The problem I have with the Safari's stock ICE is 1) weak bass and 2) middle row seats dont have good mid range clarity.

What I have in mind ( not executed as yet ) is to replace the the stock speakers with components up front, three way round speakers in the rear door, and two way oval speakers mounted in a custom enclosure to give good bass, driven off a 4 channel amp.

Step wise:

- Replace the speakers in the stock locations and observe.
- Add an Amp
- Add the ovals in the enclosure.

Gurus, pls advise if the above seems to be a do-able thing.

thanks
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Old 28th July 2008, 15:40   #13
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Guys correct me if I am wrong but Doesnt the 9870 come with only one pre-out?

If so then he can only amp a sub.

EDIT: yes it has only one pre-out Alpine 9870

Last edited by Technocrat : 28th July 2008 at 15:43.
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Old 28th July 2008, 15:45   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Won't a three way coaxial round speaker give better mid bass than a subwoofer which will just enhance the "thump".
That way I can buy an amp and some good 3ways(4K budget without BW), and get done within 8K.

Sirjee,

What i have sounds too good only to me and the occupants of the car , but not to the outer world.

Here's what i got installed in the Safari.

Step 1.

Get a nice set of Components on the front door, i run the MBQuart 6" components with cross over filters. costing around 14k

Step 2.

Get some nice speaker in the mid door- i run a Polk audio 450 watts 6" speaker , with one more filtering unit, costing around 4k.

Step 3.

Get a 12 inch sub-woofer at the rear- i run a MBQuart 12 inch Sub, costing around 12k

Step 4.

Get a nice 4ch amp- i have a sony 4/5 ch amp(not too happy but is decent enough) costing around 6K

Step 5.

I think you have a DVD HU already, nothing to worry further.

Waiting to see whats happening to your Safari
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Old 28th July 2008, 15:46   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Won't a three way coaxial round speaker give better mid bass than a subwoofer which will just enhance the "thump".
That way I can buy an amp and some good 3ways(4K budget without BW), and get done within 8K.
An unconventional thought.

Phase 1

1. Modify the front doors slightly to fit 2 oval 6x9s. Say JBL 937s. Have 2 more 937s in the rear.

2. Add some 'alternative' cheap damping in the front doors. PM Ragzv or see his thread.

Phase 2.
Go for a 4-ch amp for these speakers, if you still need more punch.
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