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Old 16th August 2008, 15:44   #16
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Thank you, everybody! Sorry for logging back so late! Nowadays I can't seem to find enough time to check TBHP like I used to *sniff*

Like JK said, I think I'm the only Kochi TBHPian who hasn't left for Goa. But this seems to be a pattern. The last time I got the car started on the serious ICE, the rest of the gang were on a drive to Masinagudi.

@Sam, yep, the spirit still endures

@F_B, I am looking forward to a long tweaking session today itself, heh heh! From the ID forums, I had a ghost of an idea you were running the XS comps.

@everybody else, thank you for the kind words. I will update with pics and a review before tomorrow evening.

I want to thank Gunbir for his patient listening to all the stupid questions I'd asked over the last 2 months. And for all the great advice and tips.

I'd managed to slink away from home late night yesterday to Zuheimi's. By the time I got there:

- The doors had been damped solid and the insides of the door-pads had been lined with foam sheets.
- The wires had been run and the platform-thing for the amps had been setup in the boot.
- The Stock integrated HU had been removed, and the Vxi/Lxi dash-center-panel had been fitted, and the HU had been installed onto that panel.
- The spacer-rings for the midbasses had been screwed onto the doors and the stock grille on the door-pad had been cut, ready for the midbasses to be screwed on.

The car has been damped with the generic version of the ubiquitous silver webbed damping material we are all so familiar with on the forum. The padding foam used is AZ-Audiocomp.

They were going to start on damping the boot and C-pillars by the time I left.

I'm sorry I could not click any pics. It was too dark for snaps of any quality from my E90.

I met a TBHPian from Palghat at the workshop. He was on his way back to Palghat and had dropped in for a headlight bulb upgrade. He'd recognized me from the snaps posted here, and we had a short, but nice chat. It amazes me, how TBHP brings us car-nuts together.

I'm leaving for the workshop late evening, but about 7.00PM. JayD, why don't you swing by to the workshop at about that time?

I'm so excited I've barely got any work done today. It feels like I'm getting married again
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Old 16th August 2008, 16:14   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
I'm so excited I've barely got any work done today. It feels like I'm getting married again
LOL. What a comparison. Do not marry so often as you do upgrades to ICE.

All the Best friend!!

I have been visiting this thread regularly. Please get it done fast. No patience left eventhough Patience Wins.
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Old 16th August 2008, 17:28   #18
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Been Waiting for so long to see Hydra get his new hatch ICEd, now waiting desperately for the pictures to come in.
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Old 16th August 2008, 18:05   #19
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What amazes me that even though I've seen and done this a thousand times, I'm still so excited!!! Looking forward to your updates!
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Old 17th August 2008, 11:20   #20
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Sorry for the late update. The install is fini! She sings beautifully! I'm really happy with how it has turned out. My long wait for the right set of speakers has been rewarded. All the agony of trying to decide whether I should go for such an expensive (to me) set of components has been wiped away in a fell swoop of pure unadulterated music washing over me.

These speakers are so detailed and dynamic, it just can't be described in words. And they beat as one heart with the IDQ. The XS and the IDQ integrate so well, (and compliment each other so well) without processing, it is uncanny. I just can't make out that there is a sub in the back. Most of the time, all of the bass is in front. All of it, without even a hint of something from behind.

And these speakers are violent. When I say violent, I mean hitting-you-on-the-chest with-a-baseball-bat violent. I've never felt midbass like this, ever. They go insanely loud without even a hint of distortion, and keep all the detail in the music. In full instrumental tracks like say, the Taal theme (the eternal demo piece) with a proper cacophony of instruments toward the end, you can make out the nuances of each instrument at very loud volume levels. Truly a balance of Power & Grace, Harmony & Chaos. Now, the interesting thing is that all this is possible with the SRx4, bridged to 2-channel, feeding the XS comps.

Even with all this, one thing was pretty clear to me within a few minutes of my listening to the setup. I badly need an amp upgrade. Badly.

The SRx4 doesn't even begin to do justice to this awesome set of comps. The kind of power the SRx4 is giving these speakers is too lean (for a lack of a better word). The SRx4 was just great for my old ESK163s. But not for the XS.

With the SRx4, I have to jack the volume up a bit to get the XS comps into their real element. Don't get me wrong, they sound awesome even at medium volumes, but once a bit of serious power starts flowing, they tranform into Mr. Hyde, mutated twice over into Godzilla's grand-daddy. Then they just pick you up, shake you around and just keep shaking you around, keeping you in bliss. I want to feel this at medium volumes too. I'll be putting the SRx4 and the LRx1.4 for sale, to help me pay for a TRU Steel 44. Yep. I've given up saying "no more upgrades"

Now, I had been told many times that I would need an amp upgrade right from the time I finalised on these speakers. But this never really sunk in the way it needed to, until I listened to the setup.

But even with the SRx4, I did have a few of those uh, body-fluid moments, heh heh.

I'm one happy camper. Zuheimi has done his magic again. Thanks again to Gunbir for all the advice and tips. I did understand all that you'd said even better, once the setup got complete.

Some other install details:
- The components are designed so they can be used as a point-source driver. Calling the point-source mounting "co-axial" would not be very fair to this great pair of speakers. The tweeters can be mounted right above the midbass, for maximum integration of all frequencies (appropriate settings are needed in the crossovers).

The flip side to this is that the sound-stage is a bit low. After some experimentation, I decided to mount the tweeters separately from the midbass, on the A-pillar. The midbass now sports a phase-plug (supplied with the speakers). For the time being, I'm keeping things in the conventional way. To me, the listening experience feels better this way (for now). Maybe I will try the point-source mode later.

- The Audison SRx4 has been bridged to 2-channel mode to drive 170w RMS into the speakers. The Audison LRx1.4 continues to power the IDQ12 (wired to present 4 ohm).

- The boot has been damped so heavy it does not stay up even with those 2 hydraulic things holding it. I need a prop. The overall damping has been done very well, and had cured a lot of the rattles from the door area. The doors close like the Palio's doors did, with a solid thud. All of the other irritating rattles have been fixed. Zuheimi has obviously been pretty patient and meticulous in isolating and fixing the rattles.

- The HU 2-din to 1-din trim-plate does not fit as well as I'd like it to. Zuheimi told me this before I asked him about it and he said this was a temp arrangement tilll a better quality trim-plate gets here in a week or so.

Nikkibike had come to Emperor yesterday evening. JayD was down with fever, so could not make it. Everybody else is in Goa (Grrrrrrr...).

It was pretty late into the night by the time the boot was finished and the XOs were tucked away. And well, I had to test all my CDs too. So sorry folks, I did not click any pics yesterday. But I will do that today and post them.

Have to go now. My car is calling me.

Last edited by hydrashok : 17th August 2008 at 11:26.
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Old 17th August 2008, 11:39   #21
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wow that sure sounds like some really good equipment there. Congrats on your new ice install. can we have some pictures please ???

Last edited by cooldude1988765 : 17th August 2008 at 11:46.
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Old 17th August 2008, 11:44   #22
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Back from the car (Dad has taken it , I hope takes good care).

Some bits to add to the earlier impressions: The midrange response is excellent, better than other 2-way comps I've listened to.

Vocals come out so well, I won't miss a separate midrange driver at all. And there is a whole lot more detail right in the vocals, it gets the skin tingling. I can hear nuances in Diana Krall's voice that I never heard before. Full-vocal tracks (those with very little instrument backing) like Rebecca Pidgeon's version of "Spanish Harlem" have a whole lot more warmth and uh, feeling & emotion than I've heard before, with the ESK163s.

I haven't taken pics yet, got in and started listening. The siren song of new ICE has no equal. Well, almost *wink*. Now the car will be back only in 2 hours :(
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Old 17th August 2008, 12:39   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
...Yep. I've given up saying "no more upgrades"
Out of the closet finally! "My name is hydrashok and I am an ICE-holic"
Congrats buddy! That is some serious equipment you've got there. Was thinking to myself as to how on earth a Swift could handle such output, but then I read about the damping you've done. Probably one of the most critical pieces of your install.
Abhi pics mangta hai!
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Old 17th August 2008, 12:56   #24
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Congrats Hydra, great review.

Your review would be useful when I upgrade my components next year.

Quote:
- The Audison SRx4 has been bridged to 2-channel mode to drive 170w RMS into the speakers.
I believe the speaker is 125w RMS. So I do not understand why 170w RMS from Audison SRx4 is not enough to take the speakers to its true potential. Is there any rule to find out the optimum power needed based on the wattage of the speakers?
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Old 17th August 2008, 13:25   #25
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Originally Posted by PatienceWins View Post
I believe the speaker is 125w RMS. So I do not understand why 170w RMS from Audison SRx4 is not enough to take the speakers to its true potential. Is there any rule to find out the optimum power needed based on the wattage of the speakers?
RMS power handling is valid if you are sending the speaker a continuous signal. But music is dynamic, and most speakers will handle much over their continuous power handling. Just have to ensure there's no clipping.

Hydra, I have heard the XS with upto 100w per side, and they hit hard! Your setup must be pounding!

Last edited by gunbir : 17th August 2008 at 13:29.
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Old 17th August 2008, 13:31   #26
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@patiencewins, muneemmk, gunbir, razor: Thanks, guys!

@Gunbir, you can imagine how frisky I was, right? It is worse, now that the setup is done.

@Razor, I just snapped a few (crappy, overexposed) pics from my phone cam. Uploading in a few minutes. And yes, it is no use denying the inevitable. I need help. Nottttttt!

@PatienceWins, yes, the speakers are rated at 125w RMS. But they've been built to easily take a whole lot more (courtesy Image Dynamics Forums and Eric Stevens, The Man). Even just the tweeter can take about 60w RMS easily. [I'd done some research before, as I was mulling on whether I should run these speakers active (the 9887 has a front + sub setting to run them active). I ended up deciding to run them with the passive XOs that came as part of the kit.]

About the power ratings, in the case of somewhat expensive speakers, I think speaker-to-amp matching is something that needs to be tried in the real world instead of going by ratings. We have amps priced from 13K to 80K(and more), rated at 75w per channel.

The SRx4 is rated 170w RMS per channel, bridged to 2-channels, @ 13.8V. It would be pushing less in a normal 12.xV scenario, of course. The SRx4 will work for other speakers (they were great in 4-channel mode with my ESK163s and ECX130s). But, as far as the ID XS comps go, the power supplied is too lean to feed the XS comps like they should be fed. I'd been told this earlier, but well, I had to really experience it to really understand.

An example of power ratings seen from the other side, are the ratings of the TRU Amps. They are rated at 75wRMS x 4, but in a real-world scenario they will most likely slay the 170wRMS per channel of the SRx4, when powering the ID XS65 comps (or any other speakers for that matter). I will be auditioning a TRU Steel44 with the XS comps very very soon, so I will really be able to see how much better they are (rather than read/hear about how much better they are). From what I've read/heard I'm sure they will rock the XS65s and the IDQ at the same time.

I'm sure the Gurus can explain this better in more technical terms.


EDIT: Gunbir, just saw your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Hydra, I have heard the XS with upto 100w per side, and they hit hard! Your setup must be pounding!
They already are. It is just that they've already spoilt me, and I want more, and I want that "more" all the time *evil grin*

Last edited by hydrashok : 17th August 2008 at 13:36.
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Old 17th August 2008, 13:37   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
And these speakers are violent. When I say violent, I mean hitting-you-on-the-chest with-a-baseball-bat violent. I've never felt midbass like this, ever. They go insanely loud without even a hint of distortion, and keep all the detail in the music.
Nice to know that Anup. Looks like you are on ICE install binge if we may call it. Good luck

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Out of the closet finally! "My name is hydrashok and I am an ICE-holic"
To add " My name is hydrashok, I am an ICE-Holic and I did love to sing ICE ICE baby " .
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Old 17th August 2008, 13:45   #28
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Thanks Gunbir and Anoop. That makes sense.

Anoop, all the best in getting the best amp for your speakers.
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Old 17th August 2008, 14:18   #29
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Scale, dynamics, detail, transparency - pretty much sums it up!

What crossover point & slope are you using?
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Old 17th August 2008, 14:35   #30
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Good going mate!I was expecting a Rainbow but it turned out to be an Image that is dynamic in eXcesS!Way to go Anup.

Post the pics.How much do the compos cost?
Why not active if going with Front+sub setup!
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