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Old 4th September 2008, 22:08   #16
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Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
But more importantly, I am still trying to figure out whether high end compos are worth it at all, given the direction and placement of the stock tweeter location (post #10).

B&T ji: By 'honkiness' do you mean a hollow sound? Can this be fixed by adding some filler material?
If you are going to use the stock tweeter location, don't go in for a high end speaker. Besides, most good high end speakers use 1" domes or rear chambers etc., all of which cannot be housed in that small space. You will need a compact neo magnet 0.75" dome tweeter or smaller.

By honkiness, I mean that the pod adds a "horn" like effect to the sound owing to its cavity-like structure. This will be more prominent if you use a tweeter with a lower Fs and/ or lower crossover frequency.
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Old 5th September 2008, 08:59   #17
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My doubts are disappearing fast! Just a few more questions on the fronts (before I move onto the rest of the setup):

Q1. @Hydra: Are the sail panels likely to be available in black (to match the grey interiors)? Would this mean that I would have to scrifice the internal door mirror adjustment mechanism? Are these panels prone to break?

Q2. Assuming I swap the stock tweeter location for a sail panel, would I then be able to accomodate the good dome tweeter from a fairly high-end two-way system?

Q3. How easy or difficult is it to completely hide the crossover in a Palio?
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Old 5th September 2008, 09:16   #18
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Thats an excellent budget you can build a very nice system around that.

The crossover can be hidden but like zucchero mentioned earlier water seepage is an issue. Then again your going about this the right way and your obviously going to use a reliable installer as well so dont fret.

Do post pics of the final job

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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
I'd also suggest a Front + Sub setup.
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Skip the rear fill
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
I would suggest you a Front components and Sub in the boot combo.
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Old 5th September 2008, 09:58   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
Q1. @Hydra: Are the sail panels likely to be available in black (to match the grey interiors)? Would this mean that I would have to scrifice the internal door mirror adjustment mechanism? Are these panels prone to break?

Q2. Assuming I swap the stock tweeter location for a sail panel, would I then be able to accomodate the good dome tweeter from a fairly high-end two-way system?

Q3. How easy or difficult is it to completely hide the crossover in a Palio?
1. By sail panel, I meant the stock-sail panel, the triangular plastic panel inside the door on which the ORVM adjuster lever is located (intnl door mirror adjustment; the same panel you had circled in your photo showing the stock tweeter location). It used to be available only in the single stock colour (dark grey/black; the same colour as they are in your Palio). Now it is probably available in beige also (the interiors of the Stile are Beige). You'll get them from your friendly neighbourhod TATA-FIAT A.S.S.

So you will not need to sacrifice the internal mechanism.

Yep, they are prone to breaking -- there is a small fastening clip-like thing inside that holds the panel to the door, and that thing breaks pretty easily if you're not careful. Happened to me twice

I'd said you can get these panels from FIAT easily to indicate that you have the option of going back to stock easily, if you get tweeter-pods fiberglassed onto the Sail panel.

Here's a nice thread by Sam on how to do this: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...-tweeters.html

2. Yes, you will be able to, unless you go really (= insanely) high-end, and the comps have those massive tweeters.

3. It will not be difficult. You can always get both XOs fastened under the dash with double-side tape. Under the seat is also ok, but there is the problem of dust and moisture.

As SpeedZak mentioned, you can also think of a 2-ch amp + mono combination for the amplifiers, for flexibility in the setup in the future. You'll need to buy a Distributor Block for the power-wiring, though.
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Old 5th September 2008, 11:16   #20
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Hello Vipul ! its good that you hear good music and you seem to have a good ear as well. What you need are installers who have similar musical tastes as well as know there audio .You can get in touch with Gunbir /Autophile. They have some great installs as per client requirements with some great SQ .There installs range from my humble santro to mercs and lamborginis.. A trip to East of kailash ( DRIVEN ) on a weekend will be worth it. Maybe if you are lucky ,you will get to hear some great sounding cars.. Enjoy!!

Last edited by sk456 : 5th September 2008 at 11:18.
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Old 5th September 2008, 11:32   #21
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While I appreciate your need for Stealth, I would suggest compromising a bit especially on positioning of tweeters to achieve a good SQ. I'm sure there are lot of professional installers who will do a great job mounting in alternate locations.

With that budget, I would want you to get the best SQ and not compromise on that.

Food for thought.....
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Old 5th September 2008, 12:14   #22
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Some great inputs from all you guys. Thanks for the detailed responses.

I now understand that I would probably be able to go for a fairly high-end setup at the front if the front sail panel is modified. That is a good compromise between SQ and keeping the car's stock looks.

I think I need to add a bit of info here: I use my car for touring long distances with friends occupying the rear seats (I really utilize the 'GT' part in the 'GTX'!). I tried out various combinations with the fader in my existing setup. I think I would definitely need the rear fills for my friends' enjoyment, because the rear fills add a whole new dimension there. So I guess I would not be able to go a high-end amp because of budget constraints.

Here is my tentative breakup of the budget:
1. Front comps Rs. 13000
2. Rear fills Rs. 8000
3. Sub + enclosure Rs. 13000
4. 4ch Amp: Rs 15000
5. Mono Amp: Rs. 10000
6. Damping: Rs. 5000
7. Wiring: Rs. 5000

Total Rs. 69000

Latest set of questions:

1. Given that I would not be able to afford the high end amps at the moment, would the comps sound resonably good, or would they sound horribly compromised? I never play music at loud volumes.
2. Is the estimate for damping OK? How many square feet of mid-priced damping material do I need to do a three- (or at least two-) stage damping job for the front doors? Do I need to damp the hatch?
3. Can (and should) I go for a 6ch Amp, or a 4 + 1? If 4 + 1, can the amps be installed below the driver and passenger seats? What are the risks?

@sk456: I would surely take your advise. Let me see if I can audition some setups.
@dinu: let me see if I can psych myself up to do this
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Old 5th September 2008, 16:35   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
...
Here is my tentative breakup of the budget:
1. Front comps Rs. 13000
2. Rear fills Rs. 8000
3. Sub + enclosure Rs. 13000
4. 4ch Amp: Rs 15000
5. Mono Amp: Rs. 10000
6. Damping: Rs. 5000
7. Wiring: Rs. 5000

Total Rs. 69000

Latest set of questions:

1. Given that I would not be able to afford the high end amps at the moment, would the comps sound resonably good, or would they sound horribly compromised? I never play music at loud volumes.
2. Is the estimate for damping OK? How many square feet of mid-priced damping material do I need to do a three- (or at least two-) stage damping job for the front doors? Do I need to damp the hatch?
3. Can (and should) I go for a 6ch Amp, or a 4 + 1? If 4 + 1, can the amps be installed below the driver and passenger seats? What are the risks?
@vipul, if you do want rear-fill, don't spend that much on rear-fill! 8k is a bit too much allocation. I think what you can do is to get 5.25" coaxials of the same brand (need not be same series as the front comps), run them off the HU's internal amp. You can switch the internal amp on when you have passengers in the rear seat, and switch off the internal amp and keep the front+sub config when it is just you.

Believe me, I speak from experience: I'd spent about 5.4K on rear-fills in my Palio setup and I regretted spending that money on rear-fills in a very short while. I could have used that 5.4K in my speaker amp budget and got a much better 2-ch amp for my front stage then. I'd have got a whole lot better sounding setup with the same amount spent.

So I'd suggest you cut the rear-fill budget and put that money into the amp budget Get a 4-ch amp by all means (a good 2-ch amp will run to 23-24K). You can bridge it to 2-ch for and power the fronts.

I'm not sure if a 10K allocation will do for the mono amp, considering that you'll be getting a pretty good sub for the 13K.

And hey, you've spent only 69K here, after mentioning a max of 80K?

Your Qs:
1) 15K would be ok power for good comps, if you bridge the 4-ch amp to 2-ch. Else, I don't think your comps will get the power they deserve. Bridging would increase the distortion levels a tad too. If it were my setup, I'd spend about 20-23K on a nice 2-ch amp (for the fronts) and run the rears off the HU.

2) Damping budget will be ok for the non-stile Palio. Damping would be about 130/- per sq.ft. (or is it 120/-?) out there. You'll not need much, don't worry. For the front doors, you'll just need to close the openings in the frame-like panel just under the fabric-covered door-pad, and a bit around the opening for the speaker.

3) You can go for a 6-ch or a 5-ch amp. But it would be pretty hard to find one. The best place to mount the amps would be in the boot (sides of the boot, or behind the rear seat). They are safest from moisture and dust there. I doubt if a 5 or 6-ch amp could be placed under the seats. It would be too long for that. A 4-ch amp and a mono could be placed under each bucket seat, though. But do consider putting them in the boot, to be 100% safe.

BTW, I believe Autopsyche (in N.Delhi) has a nice 4-ch Audison LRx up for sale in the classifieds. You should find good deals in the TBHP classifieds.
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Old 6th September 2008, 08:45   #24
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@Hydra: Ihave taken your suggestions to heart. I had not even thought of driving the rear fills with the built-in amp before. That's a good idea! I had also not thought of the security aspect when mounting amps below the front seats. So thanks for that too.

I did a bit of research ("R&D" in office lingo!) on my HU (Alpine 9885). It has a high pass filter with the following settings:

Off
80 Hz
120 Hz
160 Hz

I hunted for more info in the manual, and checked out Alpine USA's site, but could not know the following:

1. If the HPF is selected from the HU, do the pre-amp outputs (3) also get impacted, or does the HPF only apply to the output from the built in amp?
2. What is the slope for the HPF built into the HU?

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Last edited by vipul_singh : 6th September 2008 at 08:53.
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Old 6th September 2008, 09:14   #25
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Hi Vipul, you've got a good budget and I'm sure members like Hydra and B&T with their experience will get you a great setup.

Although quite a few members have suggested that you could do away with the rear-fill, I suggest you should consider having it - I think avoiding rear-fill is more advisable on a low-budget setup. Not having them amplified is again at your discretion, but I think it is better to have a system with rear-fill amplified.
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Old 6th September 2008, 11:01   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
I hunted for more info in the manual, and checked out Alpine USA's site, but could not know the following:

1. If the HPF is selected from the HU, do the pre-amp outputs (3) also get impacted, or does the HPF only apply to the output from the built in amp?
2. What is the slope for the HPF built into the HU?

Can anyone enlighten me on this?
No guru here, so don't accept my answers without further confirmation.
1. Crossover selection on HU should affect pre-amp outs, at least that's how it is on my 9887.
2. The slope is 12 dB/octave. Have a look at this under the head Sound Tuning.
Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. - CDA-9885

Last edited by nura : 6th September 2008 at 11:03.
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Old 6th September 2008, 13:03   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
1. Car: 2002 Palio GTX
2. Current setup: Alpine 9885 HU
70K is a healthy budget.

See post # 8679 here
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...new-q-579.html
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Old 6th September 2008, 17:27   #28
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vipul, listen to YOUR shortlisted brands BEFORE buying anything. do meet LBM in faridabad, he can arrange some good SQ demos for you.
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Old 6th September 2008, 18:37   #29
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Hi,Vipul

I suggest you contact HELLSPAWN on the forum,His FAIT siena is loaded with Image dynamic's equipment,He has done his homework on issues related to imaging etc.Auditioning his setup will give you are fair idea for the pro's and con's
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Old 6th September 2008, 18:37   #30
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Navinji: Thanks for the link, sir. As per your suggestion, I should probably not invest too much in the 4-ch Amp at this stage. I could go with that advice, especially since I am open to upgrading to a really good 4-ch amp 6-8 months down the line when I get more 'Gandhijis', and if I feel the current amp is not up to the mark.

@panky: For sure, I would be getting in touch with L_B_M and Gunbir and try to decide on the equipment only after auditioning since I tend to like a warm and mellow sound, and would therefore need to sample stuff. This weekend is very busy, so let me see if something can be arranged for the next one.

@nura: big thanks to you for searching the link out!

@noidaboy: I followed hellspawn's thread with interest. The only problem is that his IDs were too large to fit in the factory slot, so he had to mod the door panel - which I am not open to. But yes, I could learn a lot from his experience.

@rocksterraghu: the rear fill is surely going to be there. The gurus were advising me against it because I had not revealed that the rear seats were used by my friends.

Thanks to all of you, I am fairly clear on the setup now at a theoretical level. The next step would be to sample stuff and then decide.

Last edited by vipul_singh : 6th September 2008 at 18:53.
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