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Old 7th September 2008, 10:36   #31
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With about 70-80k without HU. I would allocate the budget this way.

Front comps: 15-20k (illusion, rainbow, hertz, infinity etc.)
Rear coax: 3-5k
2channel amp for speakers: 20-30k
mono amp for sub : 20-25k
sub: 10-15k
wiring, damping and install : 10k.

You might overshoot your budget but i suggest you not to buy a cheaper 4 channel amp for the time being and upgrade 6-8 months later as you will lose a lot of money when you want to get rid of the amp later.
I suggest you take the plunge at a go or buy the amp later.
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Old 7th September 2008, 17:08   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
... especially since I am open to upgrading to a really good 4-ch amp 6-8 months down the line when I get more 'Gandhijis', and if I feel the current amp is not up to the mark.
... I am fairly clear on the setup now at a theoretical level. The next step would be to sample stuff and then decide.
I'd go with cooldude and suggest that you be doubly sure of what you need to get in the amp section. Upgrading a 4-ch amp 8 months later means you will lose about 30% of the money you spent on it at the very least. Most likely you will lose 40%. If you wait for a bit and put in about 20% extra (more than what an entry-level amp will run to), you will have an amp that you can keep for a long time to come.

Since you are in Delhi, you will have a lot of good setups to listen to. That will help you decide between entry-level amps and better amps for sure. Do pay attention to the overall impression the amp makes on you (music-wise) and forget the numbers the amps are rated at.

Take your time, listen to a lot of cars with an open mind (& with your own CDs), and then decide. Your wallet will thank you.
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Old 8th September 2008, 11:04   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
Navinji: Thanks for the link, sir. As per your suggestion, I should probably not invest too much in the 4-ch Amp at this stage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldude1988765 View Post
You might overshoot your budget but i suggest you not to buy a cheaper 4 channel amp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
I'd go with cooldude and suggest that you be doubly sure of what you need to get in the amp section. Upgrading a 4-ch amp 8 months later means you will lose about 30% of the money you spent on it at the very least.
If you are looking for upgrading the system later I'd suggest you only buy coponents you wont need to upgrade. hydra is right, resale prices on electronics is very poor.

Id' concentrate on damping, the front compoents, subwoofer and monoblock (with 1 pair of RCA wires) and add other wires, rear components and 4 ch. amp later.
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Old 8th September 2008, 12:56   #34
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Point taken, sir! I just got a bit confused when you recommended a less-expensive amp to another member. But then that is another setup, and no two requirements are same.

Also, although I do understand that hearing is believing and the final call needs to be taken after audition, can any of you recommend (by name) good sounding 4-ch and Mono amps and their approx price range? I do not like too bright a sound. Please do keep in mind my budget (after adding the inevitable overshooting factor onto it).
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Old 9th September 2008, 11:49   #35
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Id' concentrate on damping, the front compoents, subwoofer and monoblock (with 1 pair of RCA wires) and add other wires, rear components and 4 ch. amp later.
A slightly different alternative would be to buy front compos, sub and a 4-channel amp now - use 2 channels to run the front stage & 2 bridged to the sub, and get the monoblock (and rear fill) later. At that point you might either
1. Use the freed up 2 channels for the rear fill or
2. Increase power to the front stage by bridging 4 channels to 2 or
3. Go active for your (2-way) front stage i.e. use separate amp channels powering your midbass & tweeter. This would of course require a HU with digital crossover or an outboard crossover/processor. Compared to a passive setup, going active allows better flexibility to fine tune tweeter levels, as well as crossover points & slopes to match the accoustic environment of the car and relative placement of midbass & tweeter.

Just my .02
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Old 9th September 2008, 17:40   #36
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Another option where you "could" save a little is buy a really good 4 channel amp and ditch the mono. Some of the good 4 channels can give an output as good if not better than entry level monoblocs.
Confirm with hte gurus about this though.
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Old 9th September 2008, 20:52   #37
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@cooldude @flying bong: I checked out two setups today, both similar to the ones you have described.

The first one was hellspawn's Siena (thanks again, hellspawn and noidaboy!) with two ID 6.5" at the front and a 15" ID sub at the rear, powered by a single 4-ch ID amp.

The second setup (in a Santro) was topologically similar, but with Rainbow components, and a bull audio sub, all powered by a Kenwood amp.

Obeservation: the Siena's all ID setup definitely sounded better in terms of clarity and imaging. Even at volumes significantly beyond what I listen at, there was no distortion, and the amp did not seem to run out of breath at all. The ID sure is an amazing amp (and expensive too!)

The Santro's setup sounded (to me) a shade behind the Siena's, but the integration between the sub and the comps seemed (again, to me) better. Hellspawn agrees with me that this could be because the Santro is a hatch. So I hope the integration would be good in my Palio.

From my detailed conversation with hellspawn and noidaboy, it looks like installation of 6.5" front comps and front soundstage imaging would be the biggest challenges in my Palio given that I want to retain the stock look.
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Old 9th September 2008, 20:57   #38
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Where does Hellspawn have his tweeters installed ?
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Old 9th September 2008, 21:04   #39
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On the doorpads. Whereas I want to install them in the sail panel. I am OK with modifying the sail panel (as per Hydra's post #19 in this thread)>

@hydra: you were so right in saying that the Palio needs little or no damping. I was very surprised today by hellspawn's car.
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Old 9th September 2008, 21:14   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Bong View Post
A slightly different alternative would be to buy front compos, sub and a 4-channel amp now - use 2 channels to run the front stage & 2 bridged to the sub, and get the monoblock (and rear fill) later. At that point you might either
1. Use the freed up 2 channels for the rear fill or
2. Increase power to the front stage by bridging 4 channels to 2 or
3. Go active for your (2-way) front stage i.e. use separate amp channels powering your midbass & tweeter. This would of course require a HU with digital crossover or an outboard crossover/processor. Compared to a passive setup, going active allows better flexibility to fine tune tweeter levels, as well as crossover points & slopes to match the accoustic environment of the car and relative placement of midbass & tweeter.

Just my .02
x2. I agree wholeheartedly. It is surprising how much better equipment can go in (at a reasonable budget), when you get a better 4-ch amp and go for a front + sub setup. Won't work for complete bass-heads, though

With a 4-ch amp & front + sub setup (As against a front + rear + 4ch/2ch + mono + sub setup) we save money on wiring (lesser speaker wire & no distri block needed) and on cost of the rear speakers. We can spend the money on better comps or a better amp.

@vipul, good to see you've started checking out setups!

Last edited by hydrashok : 9th September 2008 at 21:18.
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Old 24th September 2008, 10:22   #41
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
So you will need a relatively shallow 5.25" speaker.

but I dont know why they designed them to face the windshield and not towards the seats or just straight towards each other. Plus, the stock tweeter location causes a honkiness in the upper midrange region.
This is why I am gravitating to the view that for car audio NdFeB magnets should be employed on all speakers (not just on tweeters).

most if not all stock tweeter locations can be accused of that honkness. there are 2 solutions to this. the easier (and more easily reversible) method is to line the horn/waveguide with felt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vipul_singh View Post
2. Current setup: Alpine 9885 HU, 2 x Blaupunkt 5.25” Coax front, 2 x Sony Xplod 4” Coax Rear. Factory wiring. Amaron Pro battery (4 years old).
Therefore I want the equipment to be hidden as well as possible.
That is why I would ideally like to go for good quality components.
4.Practicality: If any amps are going to be installed in the boot, intrusion into boot-space should be minimal.
Use Stock locations. I think there are a few very shallow 5.25 and 6.5" components out there that will fit.

Hydra and others will allocate your budget for you but I would like to add just a few pointers.

1. HU - retain or upgrade to 9887 to get TA.
2. Amp - get a 4ch and a monoblock it keeps things simple and this combo is cheaper than similar 5/6 ch amps like suggested before a 4ch can power fronts and a sub till you can afford a monoblock.
3. Listen to 3 options for each component. At this price range many prodcuts are good they just cater to different tastes.
4. to reduce sub size think isobarik sealed in which case a monoblock becomes essential
5. Get a good installer and spend on good wires and some damping even cars like Skodas and Palios need some damping.

Last edited by navin : 24th September 2008 at 10:27.
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