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Old 26th September 2008, 21:44   #1
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Default Beauty(GT5-502) Meets The Beast(TS-S20)

ICE in my Versa was like this
  1. HU JVC D/Din KW-XC404
  2. Pio 4" dual cone up front
  3. The much famed TS-S20(without network) on C pillar parallel with rear spkrs
  4. Pio 2150(Ikkis pachchaas) at rear
  5. Philips 10" sub in MDF enclosure(under center seat)
  6. 8401 amp driving fronts and sub
Items 3,4 are oldies(14 years old-original Made In Japan),while I got teh others either due to ignorance or looks

Helped by our own Der Alte Dada,I did the following to get some better performance from this set up.
  1. Two 63V 100 microfarad capacitors connected back to back to pep up EACH OF the TS-S20 .These had 3.3microfarad caps earlier. - total expenses Rs.20
  2. Shifted TS-S20 to A pillar
  3. Got holes made in the front doors(Versa has locations for speakers in the dash only) and put in a pair of MDF rings to accommodate GT5-502.These rings took a while to make as teh top and bottom edges had to be chiselled and filed to match the door profile
  4. GT5-502 and TS-S20 in parallel off front channel of amp
The 5.25" speakers fit well at teh door bottom;6.5" would have been a tough fit.
I have not damped the doors as I just wanted to experience undamped ones

The overall front soundstage has improved considerably;the speakers and tweeters are not all that bright.

Total project expenses:Rs.20(capacitors) plus Rs.1750(speakers) plus Rs.190(MDF rings) plus Rs.100(speaker installation plus re-wiring)

My next milestone - in case the rear "budda" speakers fail,I will shift the GT5 to the rear and put in new 5.25" compos in the front.

Hope the pics do more talking.In the last pic the beast can be seen prominently on A pillar while Beauty is just peeping out from the bottom of the door.

PS:I got the interiors revamped just two weeks back - just wanted to give the cabin a fresh bright look.The entire thing was designed by me and executed by my upholstery specialist Ashok Manilal. My "bodywala" Joby George was so helpful in removing and refitting the seats.Total expenditure Rs.8500
Attached Thumbnails
Beauty(GT5-502) Meets The Beast(TS-S20)-spacer.jpg  

Beauty(GT5-502) Meets The Beast(TS-S20)-lftdoor.jpg  

Beauty(GT5-502) Meets The Beast(TS-S20)-rt-door.jpg  

Beauty(GT5-502) Meets The Beast(TS-S20)-front.jpg  


Last edited by vigsom : 26th September 2008 at 22:03. Reason: to bring in more clarity
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Old 26th September 2008, 21:52   #2
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Der Alte recommended you put 100mfd capacitors on a tweeter instead of 3.3mfd? That's odd.

For Rs.10/- you could have only got regular electrolytic capacitors not bipolar ones. I'm pretty sure there has been some miscommunication.
Lastly, I am not so sure about having a coaxial speaker in conjunction with a tweeter.

But if you're happy, that's all that matters.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 26th September 2008 at 21:57.
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Old 26th September 2008, 22:01   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Der Alte recommended you put 63mfd capacitors on a tweeter instead of 3.3mfd?

For Rs.10/- you could have only got regular electrolytic capacitors not bipolar ones. I'm pretty sure there has been some miscommunication.
Lastly, I am not so sure about having a coaxial speaker in conjunction with a tweeter.

But if you're happy, that's all that matters.
The reco was to put two 50V 100 microfarad capacitors back to back into each tweeter. I got only 63V 100 microfarad capacitors. In fact I read the same advice in one of your posts(more than a year ago in reply to a post on someone's Esteem which had only tweeters in the front).That post mentioned that you get the capacitors for 20 bucks at Lamington Road and that they would be a good crossover for front speakers.

I am no ICE buff but am learning.Yes,I know it isn't a great idea to have a coax in conjunction with a tweeter but this again is a learning phase for me.After all,the coax is not going to go kaput.Tomorrow if I find the soundstage can be improved,I already have a back up plan for that coax called GT5-502.
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Old 26th September 2008, 22:56   #4
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All this sounds a bit weird. I hope you have all the details right. The only worthwhile modification for the TS 20 however, is to cut one if its leads.

Btw, if I remember correctly, doesnt the TS 20 have a second order filter? i.e. a coil also in conjunction with the capacitor, inside the black plastic dabbi?
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Old 26th September 2008, 23:06   #5
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100uf is way too big. you must mean 100nf (0.1uf). that would mean that the ts20 would be reproducing freq only above 200,000Hz! I htink DA effectively neutered the TS 20. LOL. but seriously 1uf is really as big a cap the TS20 deserves.
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Old 26th September 2008, 23:21   #6
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Ok, even for non-techies like me, this is turning out to be a great read!!
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Old 27th September 2008, 06:49   #7
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
The only worthwhile modification for the TS 20 however, is to cut one if its leads.

Btw, if I remember correctly, doesnt the TS 20 have a second order filter? i.e. a coil also in conjunction with the capacitor, inside the black plastic dabbi?
As far as I know,the TS20 comes with a separate "black dabbi" which I think is called LC network or something like that;left that in my earlier car that not knowing what the dabbi was for.

My ultimate aim is to use compos for the front soundstage.But before that I wanted to check out how a 5.25" coax in the door sounds vis a vis a 4" in the dash.There was no better way of checking this as no VERSA I know has speakers in the doors. In case I don't like it,I can always use the coax for the rear.Barabar che?
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Old 27th September 2008, 07:27   #8
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Badda barabar chhe!
You're happy with the current setup and that's all what it matters.

But if you would like to improve this setup, then all the gurus here will help you out in that.

Frankly speaking, I also find your front setup a bit odd.
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Old 27th September 2008, 10:36   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigsom View Post
The reco was to put two 50V 100 microfarad capacitors back to back into each tweeter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
All this sounds a bit weird.
No it does not. Think about it.

100 in series with 100 = 50. that means the TS20 is XOed 6db/oct at 800Hz (not 8k).

Now the TS 20 is not designed to handle that is it? if so it goes 'poof' and now all the sound is coming the 502 in the door which is what DA probably intended. The TS20 are purely cosmetic. DA has effectively '.cut one of the leads'! LOL.

DA is an old fox.
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Old 27th September 2008, 11:37   #10
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The best thing one can do with a TS 20 is to throw it out! Why are you wasting time on modding it??
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Old 27th September 2008, 12:08   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vigsom View Post
As far as I know,the TS20 comes with a separate "black dabbi" which I think is called LC network or something like that;left that in my earlier car that not knowing what the dabbi was for.
Barabar nathi maara bhai!

Like you are saying, it is a LC network. L stands for inductance. i.e. a coil is being used. I dont know how you or DA dada figured out what the inductance of that is, and thus concurred on the modified capacitance value.

Also like Navin says, "back to back" which I assume in your parlance is series, will result in 50microF capacitance and a blisteringly low cutoff frequency. If that is indeed true, be ready to say a well deserved good-bye to the fellas. Of course, the plus side is they make very attractive and functional paperweights. Maja nu chhe!
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Old 27th September 2008, 14:51   #12
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Oh God,now I am beginning to feel why I even mentioned the TS20?

Other than the microfarad mod, how do you find the speaker install and the overall interior appeal?
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Old 27th September 2008, 17:46   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Also like Navin says, "back to back" which I assume in your parlance is series, will result in 50microF capacitance and a blisteringly low cutoff frequency. If that is indeed true, be ready to say a well deserved good-bye to the fellas. Of course, the plus side is they make very attractive and functional paperweights. Maja nu chhe!
Low cut off frequency - does this mean the capacitor is actually allowing low frequencies into it? functioning like a sort of midrange ?If yes,then I must say the tweeters are real solid as it has been over three months since the tweets were modded
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Old 27th September 2008, 18:03   #14
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Quote:
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Low cut off frequency - does this mean the capacitor is actually allowing low frequencies into it? functioning like a sort of midrange ?If yes,then I must say the tweeters are real solid as it has been over three months since the tweets were modded
Yes, if the arrangement is as we are assuming it is, the tweeters are being fed with frequencies so low - they're much under the tweeter's resonance frequency.

While they might be solid, this low crossover means that they must be screeching like crazy too.

And extremely sorry to have forgotten to mention that the install is indeed clean and tidy with great aesthetic appeal. Didn't mean to rain on your parade. Just trying to help you get the most for your already spent money. cheers:
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Old 27th September 2008, 20:46   #15
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Yes, if the arrangement is as we are assuming it is, the tweeters are being fed with frequencies so low - they're much under the tweeter's resonance frequency.

While they might be solid, this low crossover means that they must be screeching like crazy too.

And extremely sorry to have forgotten to mention that the install is indeed clean and tidy with great aesthetic appeal. Didn't mean to rain on your parade. Just trying to help you get the most for your already spent money. cheers:
Thanks for the compliment Sir;needed that badly after all this bashing.

Each tweeter was earlier running on a 50V 3.3 microfarad BP capacitor.These BP ones were installed by an Electronics Engineer here who said it is a must to prevent the tweeters from blowing up.

Does BP mean Bipolar?I also observed that each BP capacitor is approx four times the size of each of the 100 microfarad ones .

What is the difference between the two?and does it mean the BP one was the right one?
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