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Old 2nd December 2008, 16:01   #1
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Default 'ICE'ing on my Palio. questions about amps, subs etc

Jagshemash!

Having trawled t-bhp for the last couple of months now, I must say that I completely agree with http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ing-forum.html and maybe Ill add a few more of my own in the days to come!

First off, I would like to express my amazement at the wealth of knowledge that Ive found here and my admiration for members/moderators like Navin, Gunbir, Sam, blueraven, LBM, B&T, DerAlte, Tool, smokin whose posts Ive had the pleasure of reading. Im sorry about the names Ive missed out on but my feeble brain can remember only so many names. Inspite of not actively interacting with anyone on the forum, I already feel like a part of the family.

1. My Car: Fiat Palio 1.2 ELX

2. My current setup (If any): I am not sure if what I have even qualifies as a setup, but here it goes anyway.
HU: Sony CDX GT250S (I already warned you!)
Front speakers: Stock Blaupunkt compos, dunno the exact model number.
Rear speakers: stock blaupunkt coax distorters (calling them speakers would be blasphemy)
Amp: Sony XM 502Z 250 watts amp
Wiring: Factory cables to all speakers and something akin to a power wire for the amp with a similarly dismal connection from the HU to the amp.

3. Your Budget: Rs.10, 000/- for the amp and a sub, extra budget for wiring. (That really is it folks. I really can't spend more than that but we all know how it goes from here, dont we?)


4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffer driven? The car is always self driven with the occasional back seat passenger. Dont use the car much, truth to be told.

5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): Depends on my mood but its usually
Metal: Anathema, Opeth, Black Sabbath, My Dying Bride, Sepultura, Megadeth, Lacuna Coil, RATM, Marylin Manson, Candlemass, Amorphis, Pantera, Theater of Tragedy (Stuff ranging from tight slow bass to some insanely fast double pedal bass)
Rock: Pink Floyd, Ozzy, Nirvana, R.E.M, DreamTheater, RHCP and the like
Electronic: Moby, Infected Mushroom, Buddha Bar etc
And some commercial Bollywood once in a while.

6. What am I looking for: A 4 ch. amp to power the front compos and the sub.
A sub that can be powered by the 4 ch. amp

I'm planning to upgrade to a new car within the next year so I'm picking up stuff that I can easily move from this car to the new one. Read: No new speakers....

7. SQ or SPL: SQ. Loud music distracts me.

I'd love to audition the amps but the installers don't seem to share my enthusiasm so my listening experience has been zilch at best. I have however been asking around for prices of various options that I have in my price range and these are the amps I have in mind.

Kenwood KAC 8401 - Rs. 5.5k approx

Cast Aluminum Heat Sink: with Sandblast Finish
Power Indicator: Blue Logo Triangle
Bridged Power Output at 14.4V (1kHz, 0.8% THD): 180 Watts x 2
Maximum Output Power (Bridged): 640 Watts
Power Output at 2 Ohms, at 14.4V (1kHz, 0.8% THD): 90 Watts x 4
Power Output at 4 Ohms, at 14.4V (20Hz-20kHz, 0.08% THD): 60 Watts x 4
S/N ratio: 100dB
THD: .8%
Variable High-Pass Electronic Crossover: 50Hz - 200Hz, 12dB per Octave, A and B Channel
Variable Low-Pass Electronic Crossover: 50Hz - 200Hz, 12dB per Octave, A and B Channel
Bass Boost: Off/+6dB (90Hz)
2-Ohm Stable
Power Supply Fuse: 40A
Secondary Capacitors: 2

JBL GTO 604 - Rs. 8k approx

GT Series 4-Channel Class AB Car Amplifier
RMS Power Rating:
4 ohms: 60 watts x 4 chan.
2 ohms: 80 watts x 4 chan.
Bridged, 4 ohms: 160 watts x 2 chan.
Max power output: 160 watts x 4 chan.
S/N ratio: 85dB
THD: 1%
Tuned Bass EQ (0-6 dB bass boost)
Variable high-pass filter (20-320 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Variable low-pass filter (20-320 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Frequency response: 10-100000 Hz

Higher end amps (I don't mind spendig more if it is really worth it)

JL Audio A4300 - Rs. 20k approx.

A Series 4-Channel Class AB Car Amplifier
RMS Power Rating at 14.4V:
4 ohms: 70 watts x 4 chan.
2 ohms: 110 watts x 2 chan.
Bridged, 4 ohms: 220 x 2 chan.
Variable low-pass filter (50-200 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Variable high-pass filter (50-200 Hz, 12 dB/octave)
Frequency response: 10-25000 Hz

Hetrz EP4 - Rs. 12.5k approx

EP Series 4-Channel Class AB Car Amplifier
RMS Power Rating at 14.4V:
4 ohms: 60 watts x 4 chan.
2 ohms: 95 watts x 2 chan.
Bridged, 4 ohms: 190 x 2 chan.
S/N ratio: 98dB
THD: .08%

I've also 'seen' other amps like Soundstream, Boston, Rockford Fosgate, HiFonics, Ultimate in the 12k - 25k range. Like I mentioned earlier, I don't mind spending more if it really is worth it. When I heard the same CD on Kenwood and JBL in similar setups, I honestly couldn't figure out any difference. Purely based in the specs available online (and the pricing ofcourse!), I'm inclined towards the Kenwood.

My questions:

Is it really worth paying that much extra for the high-end amps?

What are the other VFM amp options that I have for SQ?

Any user reviews about the KAC 8401? Any comparative reviews (What diference have you noticed between the 8401 and any other amp when u compared them)?

Suggestions for a 12" SQ sub in the 4k - 6k range?

I'd love to audition a few setups. Anybody care to entertain me?

Thanks in advance.

Mods: I'm sorry about the new thread, but I had diverse questions so I started a new one. Kindly do the needful if this thread is deemed unsuitable.
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Old 2nd December 2008, 20:10   #2
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Quick update.

I just picked up an eclipse cd5435 HU.
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Old 2nd December 2008, 22:41   #3
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I have the Kenwood amp installed in my Octy along with Bull Audio components in the front and rear and a Bull audio sub. I am pretty happy with the SQ, the HU is stock alpine that comes with the Skoda. I think the Kenwood amp is the best VFM amp and delivers pretty good SQ.
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Old 2nd December 2008, 23:35   #4
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i second that. its a very good vfm amplifier. just got one myself
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Old 3rd December 2008, 00:03   #5
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Thanks folks! Appreciate your replies.
could you elaborate a bit more in terms of what other amps you auditioned and what made you choose the Kenwood?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 3rd December 2008, 00:40   #6
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Out of the box blind-fold go for the JBL GTO504 which is within 10k range or if budget is not a constraint then check out the JBL GTO1004 or the Ground Zero MK2 120.4 range between 10k-15k,they all are with very good SQ,complete VFM,solid build and powerful.

Many good Subs are available in a range of 3k-7k with alot of potential and Hard bass look around..cheers

Ramie
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Old 3rd December 2008, 01:16   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramie2400 View Post
Out of the box blind-fold go for the JBL GTO504 which is within 10k range or if budget is not a constraint then check out the JBL GTO1004 or the Ground Zero MK2 120.4 range between 10k-15k,they all are with very good SQ,complete VFM,solid build and powerful.

Many good Subs are available in a range of 3k-7k with alot of potential and Hard bass look around..cheers

Ramie
I second that, If you have budget you can go for any of the two below.
JBL GTO1004 - Rs.14000 odd with B&W, Rs.11000 odd grey
or
Ground Zero GZTA 4.120MK Rs.11000 odd with B&W

For the Sub, if budget go for
Ground zero GZTW 12MK(Rs. 5490 with B&W) in a Sealed Box( Rs.1500).

The kind of music you listen to, demands tight bass. You would need a sealed box for that.
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Old 3rd December 2008, 01:21   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe loser View Post
Thanks folks! Appreciate your replies.
could you elaborate a bit more in terms of what other amps you auditioned and what made you choose the Kenwood?

Thanks in advance.
Buddy, it would be a good idea to audition a few amps yourself. Actually the idea is to suit your ears. Something which might sound nice to one might not sound so good to you.

I auditioned quite a number of amps, before taking the decision, although the problem in Kolkata is that your auditioning scope is very limited.

Take the pointers from the forum, shortlist a few and then listen to them if possible. Then take a decision.
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Old 3rd December 2008, 10:20   #9
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Thanks again.

as for taking pointers from the forum, that's exactly what I've been doing for the last couple of months and you know how it goes from there!

The GZ amp sounds yummy. Looks like a trip to the installer is called for now...

Also, when I asked a reputed installer about the Blau GTA 4 Special Mk II he didn't seem very happy recommending it. Any experience with the Blau, anyone?

All I'm trying to do here is to narrow down my list to manageble proportions so I won't have to audition the ones that are really sad.

I use the car mostly on the weekends in the cit and the occasional highway stint on holidays. Doesen't make sense to spend upwards of 6k for an amp with very little usage, does it?
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Old 4th December 2008, 00:00   #10
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if you compare the 1004 to say a 604 or even a 504, it will be like comparing chalk and cheese.
i suggest you take some time out, and either fix how much you want to spend on each component of your ICE, and then start looking for what you want. there will be a bevy of options and all these might confuse you if you dont know what you want. if you dont have a fixed budget, its still recommended you audition different amps and speakers before you take the plunge

Last edited by frankmehta : 4th December 2008 at 00:03.
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Old 5th December 2008, 12:29   #11
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Default Confused about the amps now. JBL 75.4 vs Kenwood 8401

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
if you compare the 1004 to say a 604 or even a 504, it will be like comparing chalk and cheese.
i suggest you take some time out, and either fix how much you want to spend on each component of your ICE, and then start looking for what you want. there will be a bevy of options and all these might confuse you if you dont know what you want. if you dont have a fixed budget, its still recommended you audition different amps and speakers before you take the plunge
I seem to be finding 2nd hand deals by the day......

Just spoke to a friend of mine who knows someone selling a 2nd hand JBL 75.4...everyone here seems to like this particular amp. Haven't auditioned it myself.

The amp is less than a year old and has been used for 6 months now. I won;t be getting either a bill or a warranty on it.

On the other hand the Kenwood 8401 is brand new grey, no B&W.

JBL 75.4: Rs. 7,500/- quoted

KAC 8401: Rs. 4,200/-

I'm so confused.

Has anyone compared both the amps in similar setups?

Which is a better bet? The kenwood or the JBL?

Is it worth paying so much for a second hand JBL?

I need to let my friend know by 3 in the afternoon today.

Any comments?
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Old 6th December 2008, 01:38   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabe loser View Post
I seem to be finding 2nd hand deals by the day......

Just spoke to a friend of mine who knows someone selling a 2nd hand JBL 75.4...everyone here seems to like this particular amp. Haven't auditioned it myself.

The amp is less than a year old and has been used for 6 months now. I won;t be getting either a bill or a warranty on it.

On the other hand the Kenwood 8401 is brand new grey, no B&W.

JBL 75.4: Rs. 7,500/- quoted

KAC 8401: Rs. 4,200/-

I'm so confused.

Has anyone compared both the amps in similar setups?

Which is a better bet? The kenwood or the JBL?

Is it worth paying so much for a second hand JBL?

I need to let my friend know by 3 in the afternoon today.

Any comments?
Well i was USING a jbl 75.4 and then changed it to a kenwood 8401.The 8401 has better sq than the 75.4,on the other hand the 75.4 has more power to handle your sub.
Though the 8401 was doing a pretty good job of handling my 15" sub,still a lot of people do prefer the JBL for its raw power and cant understand the finesse of the 8401.
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Old 6th December 2008, 08:09   #13
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JBL 75.4 will rip apart so called "SQ" or "SPL" capabilities of Kenwood 8401. Thats for sure!
These cannot be compared by ANY means!

Last edited by panky12345 : 6th December 2008 at 08:10.
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Old 6th December 2008, 16:53   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panky12345 View Post
JBL 75.4 will rip apart so called "SQ" or "SPL" capabilities of Kenwood 8401. Thats for sure!
These cannot be compared by ANY means!
Yes both amps cannot be compared by any means. But 75.4 cannot rip apart 8401 in terms of SQ.

Yes the power is more in JBL 75.4 but by no means produce 104W RMS. More like 75W RMS i would say.
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Old 6th December 2008, 17:12   #15
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75.4 is anyday better than a kenwood.
In power too , in looks too. I personally like it over then kenwood.
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