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Old 23rd December 2008, 22:01   #31
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@DINU my suggestion to you would be get some in-ear heapinner or a way to connect your laptop to a comp. get winamp and an associated plugin called the jammix enhancer and see for yourself how much info in a decent 160kbps mp3 is actually part of the sub and comes as subsonic audio.

P.S. Try the settings subsonic noise and subwoofer test. but to listen to it on your car the 3501's HPF WILL need to be OFF. Also please note its a sub and a monoblock amp attached to it. therefore it CAN handle those frequencies. i'd be glad to show you if you want. Please no offence meant.
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Old 24th December 2008, 00:31   #32
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Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
@DINU my suggestion to you would be get some in-ear heapinner or a way to connect your laptop to a comp. get winamp and an associated plugin called the jammix enhancer and see for yourself how much info in a decent 160kbps mp3 is actually part of the sub and comes as subsonic audio.

P.S. Try the settings subsonic noise and subwoofer test. but to listen to it on your car the 3501's HPF WILL need to be OFF. Also please note its a sub and a monoblock amp attached to it. therefore it CAN handle those frequencies. i'd be glad to show you if you want. Please no offence meant.
I did not understand a few things in the post, like "in-ear heapinner", or "connecting laptop to a comp", so please excuse me in case I make some wrong interpretation of your post.

I do agree that there is no reason to unnecessarily use the HPF on the 3501 especially if the subwoofer is in a sealed enclosure.

But I dont know what you want to do with that Jammix enhancer, or the reference to "how much info in a decent 160kbps mp3 is actually part of the sub and comes as subsonic audio". Sub-bass content in a track depends completely on the song, not as much on encoding. And sub-bass content is called just that, sub-bass. Not subsonic audio.

IMO, that plugin can cause some good music to sound much worse, at best. And subsonic noise and subwoofer test tracks are not the kind of material that would ever assist with the setup of a quality sound system.
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Old 24th December 2008, 07:22   #33
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pardon me for the error in posting i only post from a phone so T9 is my typing format and its a pain. thats in-ear headphones also known as ear-jammers. part two is connect a laptop or comp to car. Lastly i'm not asking him to test it. i wouldn't do such a silly thing myself. true it depends on the file but if you go through mp3 encoding details you will find that since for listening most people can't exactly hear those frequencies very clearly, the encoder tends to mask them. on a 320kbps file this becomes apparent. IMO the plugin is brilliant for all the control you get.
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Old 24th December 2008, 07:26   #34
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pardon me for the error in posting i only post from a phone so T9 is my typing format and its a pain. thats in-ear headphones also known as ear-jammers. part two is connect a laptop or comp to car. Lastly i'm not asking him to test it. i wouldn't do such a silly thing myself. true it depends on the file. but if you go through mp3 encoding details you will find that since for listening most people can't exactly hear those frequencies very clearly, the encoder tends to mask them. on a 320kbps file this becomes apparent. IMO the plugin is brilliant for all the control you get. And yes sir those two tests are a sheer waste for a quality setup unless you want to know if the sub is on but can't check it.
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Old 24th December 2008, 08:10   #35
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Originally Posted by drvhplyevraftr View Post
OK. I will try this out. What should the HPF on the HU be set?. Should it be set to ON or Through?.
Please let me know. Thank you.
It should be ON

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Also the amplifier gain on the HU has to be kept at OFF isnt? Please let me know if it is otherwise. Thank you.
Yes, the amp gain on the HU should be off since you are not using the HU amp.
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Old 24th December 2008, 08:15   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valhallen.282 View Post
@DINU my suggestion to you would be get some in-ear heapinner or a way to connect your laptop to a comp. get winamp and an associated plugin called the jammix enhancer and see for yourself how much info in a decent 160kbps mp3 is actually part of the sub and comes as subsonic audio.

P.S. Try the settings subsonic noise and subwoofer test. but to listen to it on your car the 3501's HPF WILL need to be OFF. Also please note its a sub and a monoblock amp attached to it. therefore it CAN handle those frequencies. i'd be glad to show you if you want. Please no offence meant.
Don't worry, I'm not offended. This is a forum to share experiences. I too will try it out now since I have an almost similar setup. During tuning months back, I did not notice any difference when not setting the HPF in the 3501 even with high end audio CDs. Let me try it out again now. Thanks.
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Old 24th December 2008, 08:24   #37
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Firstly I would recommend that you figure out how much bass your front (and rear) speakers can handle. The more they can handle the more your image will be in front of you. At the levels I listen to my 6.5" front speakers can easily handle 50Hz/18db.
Thanks for the suggestion. That brings to me another question. In terms of handling capacity, there is a large overlap between what a sub can handle and what a pair of 6.5 components can handle. That being the case, for a frequency of say 80-90Hz, is it better to let the sub handle it or let the components handle it. Both are capable, but who should take the load. At 80Hz, the sound is not directional, so I don't think the imaging will suffer and I do have time alignment that can compensate for the difference in distance.

What do gurus recommend? My experience shows that subs are able to handle these frequencies much better than the components. It will be good to hear experiences from others in this regard.

Last edited by dinu2506 : 24th December 2008 at 08:25.
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Old 24th December 2008, 10:47   #38
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Originally Posted by dinu2506 View Post
That being the case, for a frequency of say 80-90Hz, is it better to let the sub handle it or let the components handle it. Both are capable, but who should take the load.
If you play at low levels and the components are not going to be stessed let them take it, it will help with imaging.

If you want to "pump the bass" then the sub should take it. My HU allows me to st multiple XO settings and I can choose between low SPL and high SPL settings.

Fortunately in most cases when one pumps the bass one really does not really care where the bass is coming from. My nephew for example listens to music that is very bass centric. I think he calls it House or Trance or something like that (Tiesto and van Buren are 2 names I can remember) and he sets his XO to 80Hz. I find at 80Hz I can tell the bass is coming from the rear (TA can only help so much) so I prefer a setting closer to 50-60Hz.

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At 80Hz, the sound is not directional
Huh? How told you that? Dr. Amar Bose?

Please dont beleive all you read, believe all you hear.

Go to a concert. Move the Kettle drum from one end of the stage ot ther other and see what happens.

In a car we live with a series of limitations and hence every install is a set of compromises made by the owner of that install. Even Bhagwan had to compromise when he got his wife's i10 or his Skoda done.

I think B&T has a Palio with 8" woofers in the front door. The front door has been modified to accomodate these rather large woofers but the soundstage in that car is far better than mine and I attibute much of that to the fact that the woofers in my car are smaller and hence crossed over higher.
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Old 24th December 2008, 11:19   #39
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Good, time to experiment again. Let me try these out and see the difference it makes. Thanks.

But one thing, even though both my subs are in the boot, I don't get a feeling that the bass is coming from behind. I think TA really helped here.
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Old 24th December 2008, 11:33   #40
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Originally Posted by dinu2506 View Post
Good, time to experiment again. Let me try these out and see the difference it makes. Thanks.

But one thing, even though both my subs are in the boot, I don't get a feeling that the bass is coming from behind. I think TA really helped here.
What are you TA settings?. I think it is called speaker distance on the AVX 44. I measured the distance from where my nose would be when sat on the drivers seat to the front left/right and rear left/right speakers and fed as inputs. There was no option for to set the distance for the sub. The measurements that I got and fed where
front right - 90 cms, left - 150 cms.
rear right - 120 cms, left - 135 cms.

I found that though the sound produced was different but really did not feel like a balanced sound stage. I found the default settings of 150 cms for all the speakers gave me a much better soundstage.

Also did you measure the distance for the tweeters are the speakers?. My tweeters are placed on the dash and speakers on the doors. My measurements were for the speakers.

Please let me know your settings. Thank you.
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Old 24th December 2008, 11:46   #41
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The last time i set up TA it was in a baleno running polks all round with twin subs in the boot mounted into fiberglass. i had used the time based time alignment feature on the cars alp head. the delay was progressive with the front being the last to fire so that all the units could be heard at once. i believe it was 0.5 for the fronts 0.2 for the rears and 0.0 for the subs sounded nice in that car i dunno how it would be in yours. I guess how low you can set it also depends on the way a particular brands speakers are designed and their size.
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Old 24th December 2008, 11:58   #42
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Originally Posted by drvhplyevraftr View Post
What are you TA settings?. I think it is called speaker distance on the AVX 44. I measured the distance from where my nose would be when sat on the drivers seat to the front left/right and rear left/right speakers and fed as inputs.
If you ask me, its a trial and error. We cannot blindly go by the distance as a lot depends on the acoustics of the car and also the fact that all speakers may not be equally efficient or inefficient. By experience, I found it best to put on some good music, and adjust the settings one by one till you find the right soundstage. You can actually feel the soundstage moving in each setting. For eg in my car, surprisingly, for a good front soundstage, I found that from the drivers seat, the right seat is at 105am and left at 90cm. It may be different for different cars. I also went by the distance initially, but the soundstage was far from perfect.

Last edited by dinu2506 : 24th December 2008 at 11:59.
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Old 24th December 2008, 12:41   #43
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On my Pio 4050 i have 2 settings.
one is a regular HPF in the Menu -> Audio-> HPF. which i have set to 63 Hz
there is another setting in the SW option Menu -> audio - > SW again set up 63 Hz with a gain of -4 to 0 set normally.

Can someone tell me what difference does the 2 settings have in function?
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Old 24th December 2008, 15:18   #44
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HPF - Passes all frequencies above the set level and the one under Sub is LPF - Which cuts frequencies above the set level.
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Old 26th December 2008, 10:27   #45
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Hi,
Scorpio is the vehicle.
I have a AVX 2 ,alpine 4 channel amp.
I am confused how to adjust the parameters like speaker distance etc etc,Is it when a DVD is the input or if it is a cd as the source.dont seem to get them o the menu
I also have included a centre speaker with a separate amp and also have a Sub pioneer 12" (twin coil- is it a disadvantage-some told me so),
My front are comps -boston and rear are ovals (6x9) of pioneer .
Pls guide me the ideal settings,understand from then on you need sone fine tuning.


tnx
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