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Old 5th January 2009, 10:40   #31
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@lynx, I think what you should do first is do what JKDas suggested: Listen to a few installs. That will get you get the budget into perspective. 30K is a bit low for the kind of music you like, and the way you'd like it to sound. BUT, 30K would be a very nice budget-point to start with.

My taste in music is somewhat similar to yours (Jazz & Blues) and I find myself progressively going backward in time while choosing the music I listen to.

To get a well rounded out system that sonds the way you want it to, you should ideally look at a 50K to 60K budget overall at least. And you had best do it in 2-3 stages to go easy on the pocket, and to choose the next set of equipment based on your listening experience with what is installed.

With 60K, I would do things like this:

STAGE 1:
Head Unit: Get one of those Kenwood 65xx HUs at about 8-9K. They sound really good. Else, get an Alpine HU with 3 pre-outs (should run to about 12-13K for the 2nd-from-basic-model). As you can see, I'm pretty much out of touch with model numbers these days :(

Front Speakers: Rainbow SLX265 Deluxe, 13K.
6.5" 2-way components. I have listened to these speakers in a lot of cars over the last 5-6 months, and they are great value for money, and are great for listening to Blues, Jazz and Country. A good installer will be able to install them in your Accent without problems. These are my personal preference from the speakers I've heard in this price range. If you audition other speakers, maybe you'll find others better suited to your taste.

4-Channel Amp: Kenwood 840x. 6K (grey). These amps sound good, and pump out a reasonable amout of power. Bridge the amp to 2-channels and run the comps.

Wiring: 5K (power wires & one pair of 2-ch RCA interconnects). I'd suggest Connection Audison FIRST series RCAs at 1K a pair. A Scosche 4AWG wiring kit should not set you back by more than 4K to 4.5K. You don't need 4AWG for this amp, but you will need 4 AWG when you add the next amp.

Damping: 4K-5K. Damp the front doors, and damp them well.

STAGE 2
Subwoofer: ID12 d2v2 (12.5K) or IDQ12 D2V2 (15K if it is available at the time you decide to get the sub) or Rainbow Hammer (14K). I like the way these 3 subs sound very much. They will blend in well with the fronts and will give fast and tight bass. I'd use a sealed box if it were for my setup. The box will be about 1.5K.

Mono Amp: JBL has a nice mono in the 13K proce point, in their GTO series. Kenwood also has a nice mono (I don't know the model, sorry) at about 14K. Both will power the sub well.

Additional wiring: You'll need to get a Distribution Block and additional wire for the new amp. You'll need one more pair of RCAs for the new amp.

Stage 1 will eat about 38-40K. Stage 2 will eat up 30K. I've blown the 60K budget I'd mentioned already, heh heh, but I'm sure your pocket will listen to your ear as you start listening to a few good setups.

BTW, did you get your (iRiver?) iAudio7 from India? How much did it run to? I didn't know there were portable players that would play FLAC.
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Old 5th January 2009, 10:55   #32
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One other thing. Most Head Units would come with an auxillary input port right? This would be for my iAudio 7 flac-player. That is, in the olden days, we can just plug a cable from the output cable in a portable CD player to the cassette player on the deck either directly or via the cassette adapter right? I hope that functionality would be present in the modern HUs? What is the technical term for the same to look up in the spec sheets?

Thanks!
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Old 5th January 2009, 11:03   #33
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the alpine 9887 costs about 21.5k
the illusions about 7k
the wiring and the install shouldnt cross 7k!
that will make it around 35k but you will be happy. the illusions beg to be amplified though! without amplifying components of this quality, you wont do justice to them


the alpine 9887 doesnt come with an auxillary port/usb port. both need to be bought as seperate attachments, and this will take the cost of the HU itself to 30k.
i suggest the 9886 that costs 12.5k and comes with a USB cable. i dunno about the aux port! anyways, the aux port will kind of degrade the quality as it is an analog connection. why not just stick to playing FLAC burned as Audio CDs

Last edited by frankmehta : 5th January 2009 at 11:05.
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Old 5th January 2009, 11:15   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx View Post
Thanks for the breakdown Navin. I got a similar one from your sticky thread too. But, I would love to know some specific options (models, etc) so I can research on them online (if reviews for these would be available) before talking to the accessory shops in Chennai. Thanks again!

P.S.: I don't listen to MP3s. All I need in functionality is the ability to play CDs and the ability to plug in my FLAC Player or iPhone (ALAC encoded songs). Thanks!
My mom listens to Jazz (everything from Eartha Kitt to Miles Davis to Stanley Clarke) in her car and she uses an Alpine HU and Infinity speakers & sub powered by a JBL amp. But even this basic system will cost 50K+.

If you are used to sound of a Mackie or Meyer you'd have to consider models that are far more expensive (and hard to get in India) that JBL/Infinity/Illusion/Hertz/Bull models.. being suggested here. Think Infinity Kappa, DLS, Rainbow, Illusion Carbon, Boston Pro, etc..these start at about 14-15K.

For the Amp I'd look at a Steg or Audison VRx series etc.. These amps are smoother.

For the HU: the Kenny 990/1, Eclipse 7100/7200 or Alpine 9886/7

For the sub ID, Peerless XLS, JL.

ok I got carrried away ...:-) but look at installs on the international forums like this one
My 2003 BMW 540i install ** pics ** - DIY Mobile Audio if only for the inspiration.

Last edited by navin : 5th January 2009 at 11:18.
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Old 5th January 2009, 11:17   #35
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9887 might eat up your entire budget!
a 9845 has aux in, and costs just 8.5k
It has 2 pre outs , and since you will be needing only front comps and a sub, that should be enough. and alpine HU's have the best internal amps of the lot

I'm running an Alpine HU + comps driven off the HU + rear coax + a 150W amp + sub, and the HU drives the comps effortlessly. Its the one which comes stock in the safari, and manages to fill it with sound.

I'm a team bhp ICE survivor - I've managed to fight off these budget destroying demons not once, but twice, and managed to get good results with equipment actually cheaper than my budget

so again, my recommend -
9~10k : Alpine HU
12k : comps
5k: damping and install ( you can use the stock wiring )

Last edited by greenhorn : 5th January 2009 at 11:22.
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Old 5th January 2009, 11:23   #36
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Thanks a lot hydrashok and Mehta.

I really appreciate the help.

The 9886i with the iPod High Speed USB cable (is this KCE-422?) is only 12.5k? Yeah, I think you are right, CDs are definitely a much better option and I think it should be enough.

Why is the 9886 so much cheaper though? On alpine's site, it is only $100 less than the $450 9887. Also, I hope there isn't a significant loss in the quality of the DACs between the two.

Thanks hydrashok for the specific speakers recommendation. I will be sure to ask for a listen on those. Only problem is, I don't really know Chennai enough to know where I can get a listen on the various setups in an environment closely resembling the insides of a car. Thanks for all the other highly detailed suggestions too. I will look into each and every one of them today.

The iAudio 7 is by Cowon. Its a Korean company (i think) but has its HQ in New York and is famous all over the world for making the best sounding flac players without those huge screens. A 16GB one cost me only $150 at amazon. I got a friend to ship it to India and had to pay about Rs. 1,000 for customs I think. Overall, an incredible value for money. Reviews are available all over the internet. However, I don;t like the headphones that come with it. A good Sennheiser IEC phones would be best but if you are like me and don't need extreme isolation or hate the feeling of non-custom made ear canal phones, you might find investing in a Yuin PK-2 which cost about $100. They look like ordinary headphones, but they are far from that.
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Old 5th January 2009, 11:35   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post

I'm a team bhp ICE survivor - I've managed to fight off these budget destroying demons not once, but twice, and managed to get good results with equipment actually cheaper than my budget

now thats a first on team bhp!!!!! lol!
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Old 5th January 2009, 11:40   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx View Post
One other thing. Most Head Units would come with an auxillary input port right? This would be for my iAudio 7 flac-player. ...
Some HUs do, but not all HUs have an aux-in. The better the HU gets, the lesser the chance that the HU has an aux-in socket will be built-into the HU itself. Using an aux-in source (usually via 3.5mm socket) will degrade the source signal a bit.

NOne of the HUs mentioned here have a built-in Aux-in socket. THere are add-on cables (proprietary) that will get you this functionality, but they will be mucho expensive.

For best results in Car Audio as far as the sofware goes, CDs are still the best option. It is too bad that FLAC is still not a standard that HUs will support.
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Old 5th January 2009, 12:00   #39
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Thanks a lot hydrashok and Mehta.

I really appreciate the help.

The 9886i with the iPod High Speed USB cable (is this KCE-422?) is only 12.5k? Yeah, I think you are right, CDs are definitely a much better option and I think it should be enough.

Why is the 9886 so much cheaper though? On alpine's site, it is only $100 less than the $450 9887. Also, I hope there isn't a significant loss in the quality of the DACs between the two.

Thanks hydrashok for the specific speakers recommendation. I will be sure to ask for a listen on those. Only problem is, I don't really know Chennai enough to know where I can get a listen on the various setups in an environment closely resembling the insides of a car. Thanks for all the other highly detailed suggestions too. I will look into each and every one of them today.

The iAudio 7 is by Cowon. Its a Korean company (i think) but has its HQ in New York and is famous all over the world for making the best sounding flac players without those huge screens. A 16GB one cost me only $150 at amazon. I got a friend to ship it to India and had to pay about Rs. 1,000 for customs I think. Overall, an incredible value for money. Reviews are available all over the internet. However, I don;t like the headphones that come with it. A good Sennheiser IEC phones would be best but if you are like me and don't need extreme isolation or hate the feeling of non-custom made ear canal phones, you might find investing in a Yuin PK-2 which cost about $100. They look like ordinary headphones, but they are far from that.
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Old 5th January 2009, 12:25   #40
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I'm running an Alpine HU + comps driven off the HU + rear coax + a 150W amp + sub, and the HU drives the comps effortlessly. Its the one which comes stock in the safari, and manages to fill it with sound.
Which HU is this? 9886? It drives the Safari front component speakers effortlessly?

Any idea what speakers come as standard fronts in Safari so I can look up the specifications too?
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Old 5th January 2009, 12:45   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
I read about the Alpine S type speakers which have pretty good sensitivity and could be driven will with minimal amplification.
Don't go by the sensitivity numbers. Different manufacturers have different techniques. Usually a 'light' or entry level speaker is easier to drive off the head unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
Also, the 9887 spec sheet says it has an in-built amplifier. What does this mean?
It refers to the in-built 4-ch amp, found in nearly all head units, approx 10-15Wrms x 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx
Only problem is, I don't really know Chennai enough to know where I can get a listen on the various setups in an environment closely resembling the insides of a car.
Perhaps some Team Bhpians could help you out. There are a lot of good ICE setups amongst the Chennai members.
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Old 5th January 2009, 12:53   #42
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[quote=lynx;1115880]I have an old Meyer HD-1 and a simple M-Audio LX4 (for the laptop).

You will be wasting time and money if even try to even get close to a Meyer HD1. I would be interested if you want to part with the HD1. BTW is the HD1 self powered?
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Old 5th January 2009, 13:00   #43
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I'd rather suggest you head the other way towards Bangalore(from vellore) instead of Chennai for good auditions.
Blueraven(Satya) or Autofusion(Anwar) come highly recommended. You will know what exactly you want.
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Old 5th January 2009, 14:18   #44
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Which HU is this? 9886? It drives the Safari front component speakers effortlessly?

Any idea what speakers come as standard fronts in Safari so I can look up the specifications too?
nah, its the cheapest alpine there is currently, the 9870 - its costs 8k

I'd stick my neck out and say that among the built in Amps of HU's , the ones in alpine HU's are by far the best- with respect to output levels and SQ. IF you are not going to amp your setup for a while , i strongly suggest an alpine.

The front comps in a safari are no great shakes. I believe they are blaupunkt OE. my point was that the safari being a big SUV, is bigger environment, and needs more power to fill with sound than a hatch or a sedan
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Old 6th January 2009, 10:04   #45
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... my point was that the safari being a big SUV, is bigger environment, and needs more power to fill with sound than a hatch or a sedan
No, the difference is not significant enough to influence choice of equipment, since the distance to the listeners' ears from the speakers is not significantly larger (we cannot use the tank size / fill rate / pump size analogy). There is also a dependency on how loud the listener wants to hear.

The problem set is different in cars (SUVs inclusive) - significantly higher base noise than home listening (road and engine feedback, body resonance) causes the lower frequencies to be masked out, as well as problems with dynamic range (ratio of soft to loud music passages), requiring a higher volume setting.
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