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Old 14th July 2009, 19:15   #61
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Actually they do, you probably connected the terminals soon after disconnecting.
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Old 19th July 2009, 20:46   #62
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I tried disconnecting -ve terminal of the battery, for 3+ hours. Also tried to discharge residual charge in the circuit (just to rule it out) by switching on lights and pumping brakes.

Everything, including speaker mode, crossover, TA, gain settings etc., except clock was intact! Clock was "frozen" at the time of disconnection, which obviously had to be set again.
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Old 20th July 2009, 01:43   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s View Post
I tried disconnecting -ve terminal of the battery, for 3+ hours. Also tried to discharge residual charge in the circuit (just to rule it out) by switching on lights and pumping brakes.

Everything, including speaker mode, crossover, TA, gain settings etc., except clock was intact! Clock was "frozen" at the time of disconnection, which obviously had to be set again.
See, I told you. Did'nt I?
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Old 26th July 2009, 00:07   #64
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Looks like it will either remember all settings or else automatically ask us to set things right (pop up system check menu) before playing next time. So, it should be safe to switch amp filters off.

As many people suggested, I did it for the component amp, for the sub amp there is no provision to switch the filter completely off, but then I raised it all the way up to 200Hz. Crossover between sub and main speakers is now entirely controlled from HU. Bass/midbass and their integration seems to sound even better now, but I can't be sure how much of that is real and how much is psychological. In any case, it is going to stay that way!
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Old 26th July 2009, 02:05   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s View Post
As many people suggested, I did it for the component amp, for the sub amp there is no provision to switch the filter completely off, but then I raised it all the way up to 200Hz. Crossover between sub and main speakers is now entirely controlled from HU. Bass/midbass and their integration seems to sound even better now, but I can't be sure how much of that is real and how much is psychological. In any case, it is going to stay that way!
If you are saying that you have set the LP for the sub on its amp to 200hz, it doesnt matter wat frequency you set at the amp as long as its above the LP frequency set on HU it should be good as the amp is receiving signal only upto 80hz (considering 80 as the LP point on HU).
There is not much difference whether you run in 'Normal' mode or '3 way' in this case as you running only front and sub which again has the HP & LP setting that you can set. I would like to know what additional benefit you get from running on '3 way' setup.
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Old 26th July 2009, 11:34   #66
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If you are saying that you have set the LP for the sub on its amp to 200hz, it doesnt matter wat frequency you set at the amp as long as its above the LP frequency set on HU it should be good as the amp is receiving signal only upto 80hz (considering 80 as the LP point on HU).
I think it matters because filters are never ideal. If amp freq is close to HU freq, it will definitely have a combined effect from both filters on slope/phase of the signal. When amp freq is far away, the contribution from amp's filter is minimized and it is more like having it switched off.

Quote:
There is not much difference whether you run in 'Normal' mode or '3 way' in this case as you running only front and sub which again has the HP & LP setting that you can set. I would like to know what additional benefit you get from running on '3 way' setup.
Main benefit that I get is "speaker gain" control which is not available in normal mode. It allows us to attenuate any channel independently from 0dB to -20dB. I believe it is very useful in adjusting relative balance between sub and main speakers. In absence of this feature, I would keep main amp sensitivity to minimum (5V) and increase it for sub amp to make it louder. What that means is that sub amp is more likely to clip at high volume due to high-volt preout. Noise level would be higher as compared minimum sensitivity setting. Well, being sub channel it may not matter that much, but still! With 3-way mode, I have set both amps agains to minimum while reducing main speaker level using gain control on HU. Another benefit of this is that even at full volume from HU, sound level is limited to relatively a sane level as compared to what it would be otherwise.

One more way to set relative gains that I used initially in normal mode is to use subwoofer volume control, which is -6 to +6 (again it is dB I hope). But then use of this feature gets restricted. With above setup, I can make full use of this feature to change sub level to account for different recordings or listening volume level. BTW, my sub amp does not have level knob, so sub volume in HU is important for me.

There are a couple of other benefits of using 3-way- you can choose slope and phase (polarity) for each channel. However, I am not sure how useful it is. I am not using polarity setting (all are set to "normal") and slopes are set to maximum which is -18dB/oct. In normal speaker mode, there is no mention of what the slope is.

PS: I have left infrasonic filters in both amps ON though, 25Hz for fronts and 15Hz for sub (Options in both cases are OFF-15Hz-25Hz).

Last edited by santosh.s : 26th July 2009 at 11:45.
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Old 27th July 2009, 15:24   #67
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Agreed that the 3 way has it's own advantage. As long as your enjoying it's flexibility its good. I too am using it 3 way mode as I also run the coax on rear doors and it gets better to tune to get better upstage.
Slope, phase setting comes more into play when running the comps in active, especially slope. With passive xover involved not much difference can be made out with various slope options, with most passive xover comes with 6 db slope on it. However in my case I have set my slope at 12db and response from midbass is slightly better at this point, though not much noticeable.

Anyways, as I said as long as your enjoying it, it doesn't matter whether in normal or 3 way mode.
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Old 27th July 2009, 20:45   #68
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I have no plans to go active or more than 2-way on comps, it is going to remain as it is with its passive crossover. BTW, this x-over is also sold separately to audio fanatics who use it for their DIY projects, so I think it must be really good.

Every setup with a subwoofer can be considered "active" between sub-to-mid, right? We are concerned about that part here. As far as my knowledge goes, higher the slope the better. Because, lesser slope means more overlap between two drivers which in turn means-
1. More trouble in general (resonances, alignment etc.), hence tuning should be probably more difficult.
2. Sub may become "visible" if it produces noticeable amount of sound in higher side of its freq range.
3. Mids may get stressed in long run and there may be more door rattling if they go too low.

Present setup is already amazing, to say the least, in terms of cleanliness, imaging and realism/naturalness. With TA and quality recordings (ACDs or high bit-rate mp3's) sub blending is awesome. When sub is switched on and off while something is being played, it is unbelievable to know how much sound is actually coming from boot and not from main speakers! To iterate it once again, as per my judgment, SQ is VERY good. I hope it keeps on making at least one hour of my daily life all more pleasurable! Nevertheless, I will try setting different slopes and listen to differences it makes, for the sake of it.

In near future, I am looking for following "upgrades" -

1. Get adjustable swivel mounting for tweeters, is it possible? I mean, is there something available as an affordable (read el-cheapo) aftermarket option sold separately (not with a set of new tweeters!)? I don't see much problem with left tweeter, but the right one can be pointed much better and reflections off the dash can be avoided (may be for left too).

2. Get as huge HDD as I can, which is known to work reliably in automobile environment, and of course particularly with 785. Won't mind doing one time power wiring in case HU is not enough to power it. Will need to make a trade-off between available sizes versus price. Any suggestions, please??
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Old 27th July 2009, 20:55   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s View Post
As far as my knowledge goes, higher the slope the better. Because, lesser slope means more overlap between two drivers which in turn means-
1. More trouble in general (resonances, alignment etc.), hence tuning should be probably more difficult.
2. Sub may become "visible" if it produces noticeable amount of sound in higher side of its freq range.
3. Mids may get stressed in long run and there may be more door rattling if they go too low.
Its not always general.
Some drivers perform better at 6db/oct , some better at 12db/oct and so on.

1. More overlap should cause more difficulty in tuning but then the normal tuning isn't too easy as well.

2. It would be "visible" even if it doesn't produce the higher side of the freq. I think most subs can be LPF'd at 80hz and if proper tuning etc is done , then the sub will be hidden.

3. Again depends on the tuning. A bit changes to the gains etc can do the trick easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s View Post
In near future, I am looking for following "upgrades" -

1. Get adjustable swivel mounting for tweeters, is it possible? I mean, is there something available as an affordable (read el-cheapo) aftermarket option sold separately (not with a set of new tweeters!)? I don't see much problem with left tweeter, but the right one can be pointed much better and reflections off the dash can be avoided (may be for left too).

2. Get as huge HDD as I can, which is known to work reliably in automobile environment, and of course particularly with 785. Won't mind doing one time power wiring in case HU is not enough to power it. Will need to make a trade-off between available sizes versus price. Any suggestions, please??

1. Can be done as a DIY.
Made a rod kinda thing. Then mount a swivel on it and on that mount the tweeter. The swivel can be had from an external rear view mirror( dismantling it of course). Or it can be a normal plate which is fixed in such a way that it can be loosened and swiveled.

Try changing the position of the tweeter.
Put them facing the opposite side window crossed at somewhere near the centre console centre part ( i.e directly above the the head unit or in that line from their axis of crossing to somewhere near the gearbox).

Too technical

I might be wrong too and would love to get corrected.
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Old 27th July 2009, 22:24   #70
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Abhinav,
drivers producing the best at particular slopes may be applicable to mid-to-tweeter crossovers, but I doubt to what extent it matters for sub-to-mid xover.

If a sub is visible while reproducing mostly below 80Hz, then it must a bad sub or bad rattling around it!

I don't see how one can save mids from being overloaded with low frequencies by changing gains. Can you elaborate a bit?

I will definitely keep the idea of DIY swivel in mind, thanks!

Regarding tweeter position/orientation, my theoretical, practical knowledge as well as gut feelings all tell me that they will sound their best when pointing away from glasses, dash and towards listener's ears.
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Old 27th July 2009, 22:37   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s View Post
Abhinav,
1. drivers producing the best at particular slopes may be applicable to mid-to-tweeter crossovers, but I doubt to what extent it matters for sub-to-mid xover.

2. If a sub is visible while reproducing mostly below 80Hz, then it must a bad sub or bad rattling around it!

3.I don't see how one can save mids from being overloaded with low frequencies by changing gains. Can you elaborate a bit?

I will definitely keep the idea of DIY swivel in mind, thanks!

4.Regarding tweeter position/orientation, my theoretical, practical knowledge as well as gut feelings all tell me that they will sound their best when pointing away from glasses, dash and towards listener's ears.
1. Yep. Not the sub-mids.
2. Presumably yes.
3. If the gains are lowered, they will not produce the same amount of mid bass and would not work in the same manner. Thus reducing the chances of damage. I did not say about reducing gains to prevent overloaded with frequencies. I maybe wrong about the change in mid bass / working of the driver in the same manner.
4. Depends on the tweeters again.
I heard a set of Illusions which were aimed at the listener's ears and ones which were cutting slightly before that.
I found the 2nd option better. ( personal opinion.)
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