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Old 11th April 2009, 14:57   #16
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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
go for the options Nishant mentioned. The Blaupunkt, or the JBL GT5-S644. The Kenwood 8401 is now defunct and out of production. The 8404 is not worth the extra cost. for that price you can get a 1004 in the grey market, which, for you is my choice of amplifer. the jbl gto1004. perfect amp for you. price in grey is 8.5k and with a warranty is 10.5k.
The 8401 is available in Kolkata for 5.5-6 k.
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Old 12th April 2009, 21:30   #17
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Got the whine rectified using a ground loop system.
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Old 12th April 2009, 21:35   #18
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get a 4 channel amp and power the fronts and the rears. The Amp will allow you to HPF the fronts and LPF the rears. This will improve the sound by leaps and bounds and you will enjoy your music. The sub can be added later, and the rears can be run off the head unit then.
Hi Frank - when I LPF the rears at 60-65 Hz, sound gets very low and kind-of muddy and it appears that all sound is emanating only from the front components. When I set the rears to flat the sound gets much better and cleaner but looks like it covers all frequencies.

What is the ideal frequency which I should LPF the rears? They are a set of GTO 937 6x9's

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Old 6th June 2017, 07:04   #19
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

Recently got the DLS MA 6.2 components installed on my Vento in the frot and am running the stock head unit and rear speakers.

The components really distort at high volumes, think. I might need an amp to separate out the frequencies.
Any recommendations for an amp within 5-7 k budget. Please also recommend good wires and a Hi lo converter if needed.
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Old 7th June 2017, 22:48   #20
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

Any recommendations guys?
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Old 8th June 2017, 00:16   #21
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

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Originally Posted by revvedup View Post
Recently got the DLS MA 6.2 components installed on my Vento in the frot and am running the stock head unit and rear speakers.

The components really distort at high volumes, think. I might need an amp to separate out the frequencies.

Any recommendations for an amp within 5-7 k budget. Please also recommend good wires and a Hi lo converter if needed.
As far as my understanding goes, it shouldn't distort with the weak power of the stock HU, and if it does - that should only get worse with an amplifier in the equation. Amplifier doesn't seperate frequencies, but only amplifies the signal further to help drive components that need more power.

May be the experts can comment further.

But incase you go ahead, get an amplifier which can accept a high level input rather than getting a hi -lo converter additional to the amplifier.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 8th June 2017 at 00:18.
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Old 8th June 2017, 00:33   #22
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

I believe the amplifier allows you to set up the cut off for each component too, say limit frequencies being sent to the tweeter to a minimum of 1Khz and not more than 20 KHz. Or would that be something that the inbuilt crossover should take care of?

Experts please advise. The tweeters in particular distort a lot !

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Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR View Post
As far as my understanding goes, it shouldn't distort with the weak power of the stock HU, and if it does - that should only get worse with an amplifier in the equation. Amplifier doesn't seperate frequencies, but only amplifies the signal further to help drive components that need more power.

May be the experts can comment further.

But incase you go ahead, get an amplifier which can accept a high level input rather than getting a hi -lo converter additional to the amplifier.
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Old 8th June 2017, 01:17   #23
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

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Originally Posted by revvedup View Post
I might need an amp to separate out the frequencies.
Does the HU have an option / settings to set the LP/ HP Frequency ?
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Old 8th June 2017, 07:13   #24
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Originally Posted by revvedup View Post
I believe the amplifier allows you to set up the cut off for each component too, say limit frequencies being sent to the tweeter to a minimum of 1Khz and not more than 20 KHz. Or would that be something that the inbuilt crossover should take care of?
No they don't, unless you go for an active setup with an amplifier channel each dedicated for each split. Which won't be supported by your stock HU and hence might require an expensive DSP in between. You can however set the HPF which only cuts the low frequencies going to the inbuilt crossover.

The frequency split should have been taken care by the inbuilt crossover itself. Having listened to few DLS based setups, I cant believe they would distort with a stock HU.

Where did you source them from? Price paid and warranty? You might want to cross check if it's authentic / damaged. Can't seem to find MA 6.2 on the DLS website either!

www.dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_1089

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 8th June 2017 at 07:29.
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Old 8th June 2017, 07:56   #25
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

@CrazyDriver, do you think:
1) the speakers - esp tweeters are not mounted well ?
2) Are the speakers original ?
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Old 10th June 2017, 10:14   #26
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

The speakers came with warranty from the India importer and are running off the stock HU. They were installed at Motor concepts, Delhi, a highly recommended installer in Delhi.

The tweeters are mounted in the front window quarter panel on which the rear view mirrors are mounted.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/delhi-...n-delhi-6.html (ICE & Accessories - Motor Concept (Rajouri Garden, Delhi))

Puzzled with the outcome though. Should I return them ?

Last edited by revvedup : 10th June 2017 at 10:16.
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Old 10th June 2017, 11:05   #27
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

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Originally Posted by abhishek3030 View Post
The installer said its due to lack of an amplifier, or they suggest that I put the HPF at 125 Hz. While the HPF idea reduces that sound, it kills all bass in the car because this Pioneer doesnt have separate settings for front and rear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by abhishek3030 View Post
Hi Frank - when I LPF the rears at 60-65 Hz, sound gets very low and kind-of muddy and it appears that all sound is emanating only from the front components. What is the ideal frequency which I should LPF the rears? They are a set of GTO 937 6x9's
With the rear speakers LPFed at 60Hz and the Front HPFed at 60Hz it will feel like all the sound is coming from the front. If you run the rear speakers flat (no LPF or HPF) the sound will move to the rear. This is normal. Rear speakers are usually larger than front speakers and because they are installed with a trunk as "the box" (aka infinite baffle) they will be more efficient (aka they will produce more acoustic SPL for each electrical watt consumed). If you want to fade the sound to the front you can use the front rear fader this will push the sound to the front but and you can adjust the "fill in sound" to taste. Many people prefer this set up.

Purists like Frank however attempt to replicate a live concert in their car. In a concert the musicians are all in front of you so Frank prefers all the sound coming from the front with the bass (aka subwoofer) which is located in the trunk is time delayed to also sound like it in sync with the front speakers.

I hope this explains things a bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by revvedup View Post
Recently got the DLS MA 6.2 components installed on my Vento in the frot and am running the stock head unit and rear speakers. The components really distort at high volumes, think. I might need an amp to separate out the frequencies..
Firstly I am not going to recommend any brands of amplifiers or speakers because they change too fast for me to keep track. The grey market prices I don't even know.

That said if you HU is making the speakers distort I would check the install. Are any of the screws loose? Is the distortion coming from the speaker or from some other car part that is rattling?

Typical HUs will deliver about 10-15w rms per channel x 4 channels. Too low a power to distort all but the smallest of woofers. A typical 6" car woofer can easily handle 50W thermal power (I say 'thermal' because 50W at 50hz will make the 6" distort but not 50w at 200hz - the frequency at which the power is delivered plays a role in push the speaker's physical limits).

If you are thinking of adding an amplifier please note that most amplifiers have LPF and HPF filters. The crossover frequency of these filters are chosen so that 2 channels of the amp can be used for bass (below 200Hz) and 2 channels can be used for everything else (about 200hz). 50-200Hz (the usual range of frequencies offered) however is too low for a tweeter to be crossed over. It is perfect however for a subwoofer-woofer crossover. In short if you are thinking of adding an amplifier to the set up and using the amplifier to limit the bass to the speakers then you would also need to think of adding a subwoofer to take on those bass duties.
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Old 10th June 2017, 12:52   #28
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
With the rear speakers LPFed at 60Hz and the Front HPFed at 60Hz it will feel like all the sound is coming from the front. If you run the rear speakers flat (no LPF or HPF) the sound will move to the rear. This is normal. Rear speakers are usually larger than front speakers and because they are installed with a trunk as "the box" (aka infinite baffle) they will be more efficient (aka they will produce more acoustic SPL for each electrical watt consumed). If you want to fade the sound to the front you can use the front rear fader this will push the sound to the front but and you can adjust the "fill in sound" to taste. Many people prefer this set up.

Purists like Frank however attempt to replicate a live concert in their car. In a concert the musicians are all in front of you so Frank prefers all the sound coming from the front with the bass (aka subwoofer) which is located in the trunk is time delayed to also sound like it in sync with the front speakers.

I hope this explains things a bit.



Firstly I am not going to recommend any brands of amplifiers or speakers because they change too fast for me to keep track. The grey market prices I don't even know.

That said if you HU is making the speakers distort I would check the install. Are any of the screws loose? Is the distortion coming from the speaker or from some other car part that is rattling?

Typical HUs will deliver about 10-15w rms per channel x 4 channels. Too low a power to distort all but the smallest of woofers. A typical 6" car woofer can easily handle 50W thermal power (I say 'thermal' because 50W at 50hz will make the 6" distort but not 50w at 200hz - the frequency at which the power is delivered plays a role in push the speaker's physical limits).

If you are thinking of adding an amplifier please note that most amplifiers have LPF and HPF filters. The crossover frequency of these filters are chosen so that 2 channels of the amp can be used for bass (below 200Hz) and 2 channels can be used for everything else (about 200hz). 50-200Hz (the usual range of frequencies offered) however is too low for a tweeter to be crossed over. It is perfect however for a subwoofer-woofer crossover. In short if you are thinking of adding an amplifier to the set up and using the amplifier to limit the bass to the speakers then you would also need to think of adding a subwoofer to take on those bass duties.
The distortion is primarily from the tweeters , it's almost if the bass is coming from them. There are no loose screws or screw like sound I can gauge.

The distortion from the tweeters goes away if I turn the bass down on the EQ but so does the bass from the speakers.

Shouldn't the crossover be helping avoid such a scenario ?
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Old 12th June 2017, 11:35   #29
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

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Shouldn't the crossover be helping avoid such a scenario ?
I assume there is a HPF (passive) before the tweeter.

Is this happening for both tweeters?

If it happening for both tweeters please check the install and make sure the installer has installed the supplied crossover correctly.

If it is happening for only one tweeter the series capacitor inside the passive crossover may have shorted out. This is an easy fix. If the capacitor has markings you can get a new one. If not get a multi-meter with a LCR option and measure the capacitance of the working passive crossover (the other tweeter). Then get a new capacitor of the same value. Usually non-polarized caps are best but I have seen polarized caps used (Polk, Boston, etc.).

Last edited by navin : 12th June 2017 at 11:39.
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Old 12th June 2017, 14:05   #30
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Default Re: Component Speakers without Amplifier

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Originally Posted by revvedup View Post
The speakers came with warranty from the India importer and are running off the stock HU. They were installed at Motor concepts, Delhi, a highly recommended installer in Delhi.
While I've heard good reviews about Motor Concepts, I'm still not convinced. Is this MA series made only for India? Even google gives only motor concepts FB page.

Not only is it not present in international site, but see the difference in quality between the crossovers.

MA 6.2 -

Component Speakers without Amplifier-18738488_1537140679661747_2471025691511945976_o.jpg
Component Speakers without Amplifier-18673160_1527364093972739_7766643667397347958_o.jpg

MB 6.2 -

Component Speakers without Amplifier-19025258_1551780994864382_8479049072966217001_o.jpg

All photos as uploaded by Motor Concepts on their FB page.

Last edited by CrAzY dRiVeR : 12th June 2017 at 14:12.
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