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Old 5th June 2009, 17:55   #196
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@IBM_J: Dude there is no problem with knowing more than someone else, or having that desire to go above and beyond. We have some really smart guys on the forum, and we try our best to contribute to whatever topic we can or have knowledge about.

No one is a dominatrix here, it's actually you, and the tone used by you in your posts. Why are you attacking people on the forum?

Granted you know a lot about computers, but if for example you were to argue with me,
"stating that a PRK is better than LASIK for the correction of myopia, or that regular LASIK was better than C-LASIK", I'd explain to you my proposition, and why it is that you think I'm wrong. I'd never call you and idiot!

So why don't you try and work with those here and not against the collective.

And if you want to feel more "reality" let me know, I'm sure I can arrange a session of ECT for you
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Old 5th June 2009, 18:39   #197
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i didnt see any car pc on sale in the team bhp bazaar. ??!
and wasnt the topic supposed to be marked as closed?
fare thee well ibm jennifer. we shall get back to the music now
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Old 5th June 2009, 19:25   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer
Mods, Please close this topic. I hope its useless anymore here as I retired and agreed all my statements are wrong (I found i have severe hearing problem and doctors adviced me for an operation) and I will be on leave for 1 month for an ear treatment. (I will ask to reopen the topic after the surgery, if I found my car pc is better than my friends steg/carbon setup.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer
Please close this thread mods. I dont want to continue here. if anybody want the correct solution for this problem please PM me. (its no drag business, No mouse needed and automatically works on all video players and games)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer
So you are thinking me a stupid that's why I am running 2 different video cards for my Avid media composer.

If you cant understand what I am speaking here, Why you are just spoiling my thread. I dont want to continue to fight with you here.

Mods, Please Close this thread.
phew.. this one was a tiring read!

Last edited by frankmehta : 5th June 2009 at 19:26.
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Old 5th June 2009, 20:36   #199
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No use Doctor. Frank in wasting your valuable time to insult me. Because I have already accepted that I am a Stupid, I am an Idiot. I am a chotta, the statements what I have said are all wrong (as per the forum rule I have to obey the moderators statements, isn't it). And even I accepted I dont know how to speak, i dont know english and how to respect and then I asked Sorry/excuse for all my stupid characters.

I never met a person in my thread who is ready to accept the "TRUTH". All those people who argued with me thinking that what they are hearing / seeing is the truth.
Quote:
If real is what you can feel, smell, taste and see, then 'real' is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.
Quote:
So you are thinking me a stupid that's why I am running 2 different video cards for my Avid media composer.

If you cant understand what I am speaking here, Why you are just spoiling my thread. I dont want to continue to fight with you here.

Mods, Please Close this thread.
This is because, this guy don't ready to accept that what NVIDIA and Microsoft accepted and documented about the limitation implemented in graphics card to honor the DRM.

Quote:
But still you are not agree with me?
Originally Posted by amitk26
Why should I ? This is going to be my last post on your thread as I have no intention to keep on spoiling it as you say.
Quote:
Please close this thread mods. I dont want to continue here. if anybody want the correct solution for this problem please PM me. (its no drag business, No mouse needed and automatically works on all video players and games)
This is the same guy who is not ready to accept that there is a technology called full screen overlay and he if forcing me to accept his innovation/idea that we have to drag the video each time to the rear monitor and we have to go back to rear seat to control the volume.

Quote:
You've to drag the videowindow from 1st to 2nd screen & doubleclick to go fullscreen everytime when a new file is played.
There is no use of arguing about my character here as I wont stay here for the next one month.

But I never accepted that I AM A FOOL. Why don't you people use your time to prove me the following statements true (to make me fool!) or keep quite:

Quote:
Quote:
FR and bandwidth are not signal properties, they are observed physical properties of devices used in the chain
Quote:
the response to transients is the characteristic of the analog device/system itself to which the signal is fed
Quote:
Lower Noise Floor: theoretical issue, since self-noise is negligible
Quote:
Less Quantization Errors: theoretical issue
Quote:
High Dynamic range: cannot exceed that of the recorded stream
Quote:
Frequency spectrum: aren't the current set of codec technologies already covering it, even mathematically?
Quote:
Zero DC Offset: mathematical issue only, and one of the basic things that was overcome about 25 years back!
If you proved me then I wont be back even after my exams. Or I will go to a psychostic as suggested by Docg and will be back after one month. Bye to all, I have to study AI.

Last edited by ibm_jennifer : 5th June 2009 at 20:51.
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Old 5th June 2009, 20:48   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer View Post
... I have exams next week, so ...
All the best for your exams, IBM_J. Yes, it is best that you forget everything other than that till you finish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer View Post
... I dont know why people are coming here and asking/dominating me with questions then hiding them self ...
No one hides (my work day is about 12-14 hours long, and some days I can barely make time for sitting at a computer), as much as no one comes here to dominate. I think you should ask yourself that question first, because you seem to reserve for yourself the right to dominate, and are upset like a child is when you are unable to.

You also have a different understanding of English and engineering terminology. Unfortunately I could never afford to do that in my career so far, since then I would have been out of a job. Unless we are able to speak a terminology (much of which has been around for 50+ years at least) and mean the same as it always has, it will be difficult to have an intelligent discussion with you. Imagine what will happen if I say 'head' and you understand it as 'foot'. All that terminology is rather unambiguous, and - should you care - you can find them in some books in your college library.

All engineering terminology (in English speaking countries) depends on simple English meaning of the words used in it (pure science / medical uses Latin preferably), and knowing those meanings is essential to figure out the applicability. Like "response", as it obviously means in English, is the resultant of a stimulus (or "signal" in engg parlance). Hence it cannot be a property of the stimulus / signal itself - it pertains to the physical entity which "reacted" or "responded" to the stimulus. Hence, FR is relevant for an amp, for example. not the signal that the amp amplifies.

At your age most of us have done the same: resort to mental violence as the only means of countering when we don't have substance behind our own arguments, and are faced with a mass of rational, logical counter-arguments.

As a person who is perhaps as old as, if not older than, your own father, the only thing I can say is calm down, concentrate on your exams for now, and we can start all over again after that. Ciao!
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Old 5th June 2009, 20:49   #201
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come on man. no one is here to prove the other is bad, mad, stupid, chota, foolish or any of the above terms you used. everyone is equal on the forum.
also, no one wanted to prove your system sounds bad.
but YES, there was a brash tone involved (normal for people in our age group: yes, i am 24 too), and some amount of pompousness, alongwith disrespect to the seniors on this forum whose knowledge many of us worship, coupled with the absolute intolerant response to many who suggested things to you before you called them names.
there's nothing wrong with the system. it's just a little difficult to have a conversation with so much sarcasm thrown into every reply. in all, there is NOTHING wrong with your car pc, and no one doubts how competitive it is.
No one is doubting your knowledge, or your views, or the fact that your car sounds like an orgasm. But a view is a view. You must learn to accept that YOU ARE NOT GOD. Not that anyone else on this forum is GOD, but there's a lot to be learnt.
Name calling and blowing away of claims with absolutely over the top bumper jargon is not required, just in order to create a sensation or carry on an argument.
I sign off mate. No hard feelings. Just sad feelings that someone as knowledgable as you accepted defeat, JUST to feed his own ego.
Forgive and forget!
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Old 5th June 2009, 21:05   #202
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Quote:
All the best for your exams, IBM_J. Yes, it is best that you forget everything other than that till you finish.
And you are back bhai. Yes bhai, I have to start learn. Evey thing is solved and I am fine now.

But still now I don't find the secret/reason of why none of the members/moderators accepting any of my statements? is it because I am a chotta or Am I really giving wrong statements?
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Old 5th June 2009, 22:10   #203
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IBM 10 commandments for you:

1) To disprove something which is established you have to establish your argument first.

2) Remember that this is an In Car Entertainment forum, not a computer forum.

3) Remember that most of these mods/gurus are "Oldschool" so if there really is some new advancement which they might not be aware of, explain it in detail. These guys definitely have the technical understanding to comprehend the advancement.

4) Many people prefer the tried and tested to the new and revolutionary, no need to prove them wrong or claim superiority. Their methods work too.

5) Please keep an open mind to things. Remember that a discussion is a form of 2-way communication, please don't try and stop such healthy discussion, as we all learn from it.

6) Remember that you are still a student, the gurus are out there seeing the practical stuff, real world workings of things. The car environment is far from "ideal".

7) Many of these cutting edge and new technologies have to be tried and seen prior to forming and opinion about them. Remember Vista was supposed to be a revolutionary OS, and look how that turned out. I'm sure the theory is great, but what about the practical aspect?

8) There is a lot of ruckus on this thread, and frankly you should be ecstatic about it! Every great scientist in history was thought to be ludicrous and ignorant till he proved his metal by way of discovery and accomplishment.

9) Not sure about how this holds in engineering, but theories though accepted now, might be changed or refuted later, such is science.

10) Please the first change you should make is in your tone. You claim that others try to dominate you, the reality still is that if your tone is aggressive, then why blame others for their aggressive/overly defensive tone? It is only an equal reaction to your action.

Cheers,
DocG
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Old 5th June 2009, 23:54   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
All the best for your exams, IBM_J. Yes, it is best that you forget everything other than that till you finish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer View Post
No use Doctor. Frank in wasting your valuable time to insult me. I never met a person in my thread who is ready to accept the "TRUTH".
I am done.

IBM go study. Finish your exams and best of luck. We'll still be here if you want to have an unbiased discussion.

If using a gamut of products from Behringer, DBX, Klark Teknik, BSS in the digital domain (between transport and DAC) helped audiophiles believe me many audiophiles (who like you are looking for the holy grail) would have tried it.

What you are suggesting is that a PC with the right software can compensate and calibrate for room, speaker, amplifer, anamolies and do so in such a manner as to improve the sound quality so that it could compete favourably against some pretty good audio systems. I am sure PCs will get there some day soon, my belief is that as of today we are still a few years away.

Audio on PC has it's uses. It is convienent, easy to mix and edit, and PC absed audio can be processed so that you can remove clicks and pops, lower the noise floor, comp-pand, band limit, and otherwise process the audio signal so that a bad audio signal can be made tolerable or maybe even good. Some years back (about 10) there was a lecture I attended by a company called DART (google it if you want) on such processing.

Much of the advancements in audio signal processing happened in the 70s and 80s from companies like DBX, Mackie, Behringer, etc... using dedicated hardware. The PC based system you are using today is built using mostly the same algorithims. This software does a fantastic job given it's price and the fact that you dont need to buy a bunch of specialised rack mounted audio processors. But the algoritim is the same (or similar).

Now aint that the TRUTH?

FYI
http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/AudioScience.pdf
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Old 6th June 2009, 18:23   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibm_jennifer View Post
This is because, this guy don't ready to accept that what NVIDIA and Microsoft accepted and documented about the limitation implemented in graphics card to honor the DRM.
IBM_J I know enough about HDCP compliance ( It is not called DRM , DRM generally refers to OMA DRM or WMA DRM yes in effect it is a kind of DRM between two devices ) but because you have a single track mind you were not willing to see alternatives and I stopped discussing

I really can not guess your level for familiarity with HDCP so here is a link of HDCP 1.1 spec for your reference so that rest of my response is easily understandable , In case you kno wthe spec you can skip it.

http://www.hdmi.com.au/HDCPSpecificationRev1_1.pdf


Now coming to real story because not all display devices are HDCP compliant to please MPAA Microsoft came up with this artificial restriction on the controller software , but for enterprising it is not difficult to overcome. FYI Windows is not the only OS and there are still better alternatives in Linux but I gave certain workarounds only in MS environments.

Now you kept on discussing Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA , 192 Khz and 24 bits per sample and all that blah blah with Audiophils here , I kept watching
but have you ever written any audio and video codec yourself or ever reviewed code for any AV driver ever ?

And do you know what kind of scaling is done at the analog output of Your XONAR card for HDCP compliance ? ( I do not know myself but would assume XONAR is compliant and that is why marketed )

I never intervened in between to disappoint you but let me tell you even if you get a 192 Khz , 24 bits per sample original recording encoded by Dolby TrueHD ( minimal loss) then playing it back on PC and connecting to JBL 75.4 using analog connecters is not going to give you exact output because the PC component vendors have to scale it down to DVD-Audio quality while outputting to Analog outputs for being HDCP compliant.
Case of Audio can not be overcome using software solution becuse the restriction imposed is at the DSP level ( The audio processing DSP sitting on card ) so you can not have software workarounds.

Now to get that elusive true music of 192Khz 24bits per sample you need either an HDMI or S/PDIF connector and decoding the digital output in AV receiver.

NOw call me stupid / Mad / Old Fog whatever

But let me tell in my professional capacity my team members work with these chipset vendors and I do know what kind of output is provided at what interface so you can not beat what a chip set interface spec says.

PS : I am not an audiophil and there is no way my ear can distinguish between DVD-Audio ( 96 Khz 24 Bit Sample 5.1) with Dolby TrueHD ( again 192 Khz 24 bit Sample 5.1 with less lossy algorithm) even using digital interface.

Now I am really surprise how exactly your ear detect the difference when Dolby TrueHD is scaled down in analog format to DVD-Audio quality as per HDCP compliance requirement.

So from my point of view until you replace your JBL 75.4 with an amplifier with either S/PDIF ( limited to 5.1) or an HDMI interface you will never ever hear any actual Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA output be it 5000$ or 50000$

Yes Intel created a subsidery for creating HDCP specification to ensure just this , Think of it ...

OK waiting for some more responses with MAD / STUPID kind of adjectives
and asking me have I ever heard a true sound blah blah..

But if you really want to discuss digital AV solutions go read the chipset specs and thier compliance.

Last edited by amitk26 : 6th June 2009 at 18:43.
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Old 6th June 2009, 19:44   #206
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Dear Honorable respectable senior member Amitk26 (yes, you have more posts than me):

Quote:
It is not called DRM , DRM generally refers to OMA DRM or WMA DRM
DRM is a general term for Digital rights management, its not only exist on Mobile ringtones (OMA) and Windows Media. It exists in DVD-Audio as CPPM and in Blu-ray as AACS, BD+ and now as Mark.

Digital rights management - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
component vendors have to scale it down to DVD-Audio quality
Again brilliant and respectful copy-paste work. Dear honorable member, there is no difference between DVD-Audio quality and TRUE-HD or DTS-MA.(Believe me, TrueHD is a marketing term and it uses the same algorithm used in DVD-Audio). This is becasue you dont need any extra shits other than 13.8 Mbps for 24 bit 96Khz for 5.1 channels. (if you dont know math to calculate bitrate please google). And its IMPOSSIBLE to USE MORE THAN 13.8Mbps for a 24/96/5.1 Audio, even if you invented a 1000GB Blu-Blu-Ray. Its the maximum for a Linear PCM and in DVD-Audio we are using packed PCM to compress(Its again not losess, its like ZIPping your file in hard disk) it to 9.22Mbps, becasue 9.8 is the maximum througput of a DVD.

What you are saying is, You UNZIPPED file has more quality than ZIPPED file, No its not true my dear honorable senior.

Quote:
Now to get that elusive true music of 192Khz 24bits per sample you need either an HDMI or S/PDIF connector and decoding the digital output in AV receiver.
Again my honorable senior, there is no consumer grade DVD-Audio or Blue-ray discs RELEASED in the world which will output the Audio thru SPDIF. You need either HDCP enabled HDMI or Analog Audio Out. Even your Software Player / graphics card / sound card dont support this my dear senior.

Quote:
I am not an audiophile and there is no way my ear can distinguish between DVD-Audio ( 96 Khz 24 Bit Sample 5.1) with Dolby TrueHD ( again 192 Khz 24 bit Sample 5.1 with less lossy algorithm) even using digital interface.
Again my dear senior, there is no LOSSY algorithm implemented in the world on any of the DVD-Audio or Blu-Ray at 192Khz. (Yes, if you hear the lossy audio in a DVD-R or Blu-Ray, its not the master audio - its the substitute in DD/DTS which is actually bad quality than your CDs - Its for poor people those dont have a 96/192Khz card).

Also dear honorable, its impossible to deliver a 5.1 channel audio in 192/24 because of the throughput limitation of the Discs. May i know the name of the sound engineer who delivered you a brilliant 24/192/5.1 audio using a lossy format? Is it MP3/AAC/DTS/DD?


Quote:
Dolby TrueHD is scaled down in analog format to DVD-Audio quality as per HDCP compliance requirement.
Dear honorable member, its not scaled down. its written by a guy who dont know that DVD-Audio and the Audio in DTS-MA / TrueHD are equal in quality. And if you dont know TrueHd uses the same Meridian packed PCM algorith for both DVD-Audio and Blue-ray.

Quote:
So from my point of view until you replace your JBL 75.4 with an amplifier with either S/PDIF ( limited to 5.1) or an HDMI interface you will never ever hear any actual Dolby TrueHD or DTS MA output be it 5000$ or 50000$
Again respectful member, TrueHD and DTS-MA wont play ithru SPDIF. But I have tested and proved that my Analog speakers playing 24/96Khz at 5.1

Quote:
OK waiting for some more responses with MAD / STUPID kind of adjectives
and asking me have I ever heard a true sound blah blah..
Thank you dear honorables and respectable member, I have exams tomorrow and I am leaving.

The only advantage of Blu-ray over DVD-Audio is you can have 7.1 Audio where in DVD-Audio its 5.1, but its not useful for Music/Car.

And before arguing me, please spend some time to know that MLP, LPCM, Flac DTS-MA and Truehd are lossless(they are like Zip/Rar) where DTS, EAC3, Dobly, AC3, AAC are lossy. Please have a look at my blog: Building a $5000 Car PC in TATA Safari | TATA Safari Club.com

Last edited by ibm_jennifer : 6th June 2009 at 20:04.
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Old 6th June 2009, 20:15   #207
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By the way, i noticed on your blog.
Its 3,00,000 so i think the title needs to be edited again to be 6000$.

Also great install for a DIY. Really like the cleanliness.
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Old 6th June 2009, 20:40   #208
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Quote:
Its 3,00,000 so i think the title needs to be edited again to be 6000$.
No sir, I was actually happy when it was $1000. All the problem started only after changing to $5000.

I request the mod to change the title back to $1000, please.
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Old 6th June 2009, 20:52   #209
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Lol. That won't make the stuff cost 1000$ right?
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Old 6th June 2009, 20:56   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
By the way, i noticed on your blog.
Its 3,00,000 so i think the title needs to be edited again to be 6000$.

Also great install for a DIY. Really like the cleanliness.
With the current $ price it will be 6521 $.

@ IBM : Chillax man, Just let it be yaar. If you post something in an open forum you are bound to get feedback, and in your case it didn`t go the way you thought. Anywayz, you enjoy your car PC and and layman like myself will always appriciate your effort. I think you have done a great job. And don`t sign into Team Bhp for a month because its very addictive and don`t let this hinder your studies. best of luck dude.

@ mods & senior members: Jaane do yaar, maaf karo usko.

Last edited by Abbas : 6th June 2009 at 20:57. Reason: mistake
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