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Old 14th October 2009, 22:42   #16
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Default ICE for Innova GX

folks,

after way too much evaluation and deliberation, I have chosen to acquire the Innova GX. To be delivered next week. Am doing some research on ICE.

I have done a lot of reading on the threads in this forum, would like to have your updated recommendations based on the following specs;
  1. Head Unit, am partial to Pioneer, should play DVDs, iPod and USB - this is mostly fo rmovies, which I would like to play from the USB stick.
  2. Speakers - I was thinking of the JBL or Polk audio 6" co-ax. I believe these should fit into the doors with out too many mods. Does anyone have any idea about using the tweeter grill for the A pillar from the V model into the G or GX?
  3. Sub - 8" Sealed or ported enclosure, with a monoblock. I like musical bass, not the chest thumping, gut wrenching kind
  4. Roof mounted 9" or 10" screen - any suggestions for brands?
  5. Damping - all five doors, roof?
Am from Bangalore, any recommendations on where to get this done?
Who would be good ICE'r?
And what would be a likely budget?

Looking forward to your valuable suggestions / idea.
thanks in advance
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Old 24th October 2009, 14:27   #17
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Default ICE for Innova GX

Requested DerAlte thru a PM for an answer to my question rephrased as follows:-

Would you recommend an dealer / installer in Bangalore, please? Some one you've worked with before or know of?

Am buying an Innova, expected to deliver next week. And so far after a lot of reading and listening to friend's systems, my list looks like this
1. JBL A 604 - 4 channel amp
2. Polk Audio DB series, 6.5" Compos x 6 - both door and hatch at rear
3. a 12" sub at the rear in a ported or vented enclosure, driven by a suitable monoblock ~ 400W
4. another 12" sub under fron seat in a sealed enclosure, driven by another monoblock ~ 400W
5. Dynamat on doors - after listening test

does this make sense?

any help is much appreciated.
regards,
CJ
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Old 24th October 2009, 14:51   #18
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Default Innova ICE - DerAlte's answers to my PM questions

Hi CJP,

1. 2 12" subs is an overkill, even if you want to wake up the neighborhood. It will totally unbalance the music. It is impossible to fit a 12" sub under the front seat - the box will be too large.

Your choices should be -
* If you like hip-hop kind of music, put a 12" sub in a ported box at the back
* If you like tight bass, use a sealed box
* There are good pre-built 12"sub+box from JBL, Infinity, Polk etc. This is preferable since these boxes are built to match the sub specs. They are available sealed / ported / band-pass, single or dual sub. Pricey, but worth the money
* Since Innova has negligible boot space if the 3rd row seats are down, use a quick-disconnect connector so that you can leave the sub out for those times that you need boot space
* If you don't want to put a sub in the boot, look for a good 10" sub like an IDQ, Ground Zero or Infinity to put in a sealed box below the front seat. A 10" sub is good enough up front to give decent boom in the car, and even near by outside it. Search the forum - there is a thread where someone put 2 10" subs below the front seats in an Innova (and a 15" in the boot, but that was going overboard)
* But, hey, if you really want to bring the traffic to a halt and wake up the neighborhood, don't hesitate - just do it! A ported or band-pass dual sub in the rear will do wonders
* Above all, make sure you damp all the doors and the hatch. At this level of bass, the buzzes and rattles will make you want to jump out of the car and run away - or wreck the car!!!

2. Are you sure you want components in the rear doors? Do that only if you sit in the middle seats and want a real good image there. Otherwise a good pair of coax will do

3. Components in the rear hatch is strictly no-no. The reason is that front facing components (and you will have trouble locating the tweeters) produce a strange image from the back for the 3rd row. Better to put good 6x9 ovals on the hatch - the rear passengers will get good bass, fortified by the front sub (if you do that). Sub at the back will nauseate them because of the closeness. If you are using a 4 channel amp, feed the rear ovals from the rear outputs of the HU, with the front and middle speakers fed from the amp

4. Polk components are usually too bright for most people (bright = too much highs / shrill). So are JBLs. If you don't like that, you could use Infinity, Blaupunkt, Hertz, Ground Zero, Illusion, Alpine or such brands

5. Which HU are you planning to use (since you haven't mentioned the model of the Innova)? The stock HU in the V model is not too bad, but it doesn't have Pre-outs to feed an amp. In that case you either have to buy an amp that accepts speaker level inputs (Blaupunkt, Kenwood, etc.), or use a Line Output Converter if the amp does not. JBL GT5-A604 has been replaced by JBL GT5-S644, and it does not accept speaker-level input

6. Unless you really want to create a racket on the road, don't worry about the absolute numbers when choosing an amp. A 300W amp will be almost as loud as a 400W one. Make sure you don't buy a brand that does not have service support locally - it will be a pain when something fails

7. Installers:
* Auto Fusion, Koramangala (ask for Thouqeer). This is in a by-lane on the right if you go from Koramangala Club towards 100" Road

* EVO, Cambridge Layout, near the Sai Baba temple. Satya is blueraven216 on the forum

* If you want to put Infinity, best would be the JBL brand shop Sound Factor on Lavelle Road, near the circle on Vittal Mallya Road

* There are others, like Sachin's Autoshop (lane behind Bosch opposite Forum), TMC Electronics (East End Road, Jayanagar), etc. but their results are iffy sometimes and they tend to push what may not be the best in the customers' interest

* While most other accessory shops that deal with ICE have installers, the risk is their ignorance of the 'why' of doing something, and sometimes lack of attention to detail
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Old 24th October 2009, 15:08   #19
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+10 to the above psot. Whatever DA sir says makes a whole lot of sense.
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Old 24th October 2009, 15:39   #20
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Default Innova ICE

Quote:
2 12" subs is an overkill, even if you want to wake up the neighborhood. It will totally unbalance the music. It is impossible to fit a 12" sub under the front seat - the box will be too large.

Your choices should be -
* If you like hip-hop kind of music, put a 12" sub in a ported box at the back
* If you like tight bass, use a sealed box
* There are good pre-built 12"sub+box from JBL, Infinity, Polk etc. This is preferable since these boxes are built to match the sub specs. They are available sealed / ported / band-pass, single or dual sub. Pricey, but worth the money
Got it. I like good old rock, Dire Straits, Pink Floyd, Queen, Bob Dylan etc., good tight bass is really what I am after. So the choice is a sealed box.

Quote:
Since Innova has negligible boot space if the 3rd row seats are down, use a quick-disconnect connector so that you can leave the sub out for those times that you need boot space
* If you don't want to put a sub in the boot, look for a good 10" sub like an IDQ, Ground Zero or Infinity to put in a sealed box below the front seat. A 10" sub is good enough up front to give decent boom in the car, and even near by outside it. Search the forum - there is a thread where someone put 2 10" subs below the front seats in an Innova (and a 15" in the boot, but that was going overboard)
The boot space is important to me, the sub under the seat is a great idea and I did see one very nicely done example of this. And you are right, there was a 15" sub in the boot as well, and that's what confused me. I was thinking of time / phasing etc..

A 10" GZ or Infinity should do the trick as you've suggested. I have a Pioneer 200W amp that is bridgeable, perhaps this will have just enough power one sub?

Quote:
2. Are you sure you want components in the rear doors? Do that only if you sit in the middle seats and want a real good image there. Otherwise a good pair of coax will do
And this is a key question. I was thinking of the imaging in the second row of seats, since that is where the kids will be when they watch movies. There is a head unit question that I need to answer as well - but I'll get to that a little later.

The question is will a pair of compos in the middle row muddy the image created by the compos in the front?

Quote:
3. Components in the rear hatch is strictly no-no. The reason is that front facing components (and you will have trouble locating the tweeters) produce a strange image from the back for the 3rd row. Better to put good 6x9 ovals on the hatch - the rear passengers will get good bass, fortified by the front sub (if you do that). Sub at the back will nauseate them because of the closeness. If you are using a 4 channel amp, feed the rear ovals from the rear outputs of the HU, with the front and middle speakers fed from the amp
Great suggestion, the ovals on the hatch will provide reinforcement and some more bass to the middle passengers. Don't expect to have any passengers in the rear seats on a regular basis.

Great suggestion on powering the ovals from the HU directly.

Quote:
4. Polk components are usually too bright for most people (bright = too much highs / shrill). So are JBLs. If you don't like that, you could use Infinity, Blaupunkt, Hertz, Ground Zero, Illusion, Alpine or such brands
JBLs are way too bright for me, the Polk DB series, I heard them installed in a Swift D'zire were bright yes, but tolerable. Need to do some more homework and listening to Hertz, Illusion and Ground Zero.

Quote:
5. Which HU are you planning to use (since you haven't mentioned the model of the Innova)? The stock HU in the V model is not too bad, but it doesn't have Pre-outs to feed an amp. In that case you either have to buy an amp that accepts speaker level inputs (Blaupunkt, Kenwood, etc.), or use a Line Output Converter if the amp does not. JBL GT5-A604 has been replaced by JBL GT5-S644, and it does not accept speaker-level input
This is very key question, and any suggestions / recommendations would be appreciated. My requirements are

1. Should play DVDs, DivX, AVI and the usual, CD/CD-RW/MP3 etc.. The idea is to install a roof top screen (10.2") which can take a feed from the head unit. Therefore there should be a Video out S-Video or plain old RCA

2. Should have USB rear connectivity - the idea of a USB drive sticking out into the cabin does not seem like a good idea. A portable hard disk or USB storage device with all my music ripped into it, is just too tempting to ignore.

3. Should have a regular 3.5" aux input - to connect any other audio input device e.g. gaming system

4. Am not aiming for a 5.1 channel experience, but good to great 2.1

Any recommendations here about head units? Am partial to Pioneer, since I've had it in my previous two cars and liked them but would not hesitate to buy a brand that will fulfill these requirements well.

I believe there are two alternatives given these specs.

1. is to buy a head unit that will fulfill all of these specs or at least most of these

2. the other is to split these requirements
2.1 a regular head unit - plain old CD/MP3 player or even one with out a mechanism e.g. Clarion
2.2 and add a roof mounted DVD screen with an included player, that routes sound to the head unit thru a built in FM modulator. I auditioned one of these units in a friend's Innova and the sound was seriously off - sounded like an old pocket transistor radio, the kind that we used to listen to cricket matches to, in school!

Any ideas?

Quote:
6. Unless you really want to create a racket on the road, don't worry about the absolute numbers when choosing an amp. A 300W amp will be almost as loud as a 400W one. Make sure you don't buy a brand that does not have service support locally - it will be a pain when something fails
Bang on -

Research points me to the following:-
as you have recommended JBL A 604 or it's replacement S644. Am led to believe that JBL has good support here in Bangalore. Any other recommendations here?

Thank you especially for the recommendations about installers. The last time I got my car done up on JC Road, I was so upset, that I reached home, ripped it all apart and did it again from scratch.

Quote:
* While most other accessory shops that deal with ICE have installers, the risk is their ignorance of the 'why' of doing something, and sometimes lack of attention to detail
Absolutely true!

So, DerAlte, here is what my final list looks like
  1. JBL A 604 / S644 4 Channel Amp
  2. Polk DB Series Components - front and middle rows
  3. 10" Ground Zero / Illusion Sub in a sealed enclosure under front seat
  4. Pioneer 200 W bridged amp for sub
  5. Dynamt x five doors
  6. Rear Ovals - any recommendations? Running off the head unit.

Comments / Suggestions / Advise / Recommendations
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Old 24th October 2009, 18:16   #21
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For a DVD HU, look for JVC KD-DVxxx (no built-in LCD) or KD-AVXxx (built-in LCD). You could as well put in a 2DIN unit like AVX8xx. There are similar 2DIN units from Pioneer, Kenwood and Alpine as well. All these have an AV composite output for feeding the roof-mounted LCD that you want.

With the set up you are planning, if the HU has 5.1 decoding, it will be automatically 5.1 (4.1 actually, since you are not planning a center channel speaker).

If you are buying Polk components, check out Polk 6x9. Otherwise there is JBL 938 or 947, Infinity or Blaupunkt THx. Yes, as I had written earlier, run them off of the HU rear channels.
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Old 5th November 2009, 22:52   #22
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Default Roof mounted DVD

Quote:
Originally Posted by scopriobharath View Post
Hi,
2) If we decide to retain the stock Innova HU and go in for a Roof mounted DVD Player with screen, could we connect both the HUs to the same set of speakers ?
I did exactly this. For some reason I did not want to get rid of existing HU. I added a Shinco DVD player+LCD to the roof. This does not have it's own Audio. It uses FM (configurable channels) to transmit the stereo Audio to the HU. I've been using it for some time now and I do not see any problems. Only thing is that, volume needs to be increased whenever I switch to DVD Player's FM channel, not a real issue though.

HTH,
KK
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