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Old 18th May 2009, 21:20   #16
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We'll surely work out something really quick dude.

What Gauge wiring is it?
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Old 18th May 2009, 22:01   #17
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We'll surely work out something really quick dude.

What Gauge wiring is it?
This kit has 8 gauge wiring. The amp user manual also recommends 8 gauge, so all's well. Only, I wish JBL also supplied RCA cables by the loose, now I'm wondering which RCA to go with for my compos+hu when they arrive.
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Old 18th May 2009, 22:14   #18
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Congrats on the upgrade man, its awesome , i was fooled last week by an installer and was sold a fake soundbarrier amp.
Congrats and if there is another 1004 available let me know.
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Old 18th May 2009, 22:28   #19
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Guys, there is a minor thing (well, hopefully a minor thing )- the amp feels hot like an iron after playing it for 30-40 mins. Is it normal? If not, is there anything I can do to find out the reason? Cable/wiring is ruled out, this is original JBL kit installed under the supervision of LBM bhaji. Other suggestions are welcome.
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Old 18th May 2009, 22:56   #20
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Guys, there is a minor thing (well, hopefully a minor thing )- the amp feels hot like an iron after playing it for 30-40 mins. Is it normal? If not, is there anything I can do to find out the reason? Cable/wiring is ruled out, this is original JBL kit installed under the supervision of LBM bhaji. Other suggestions are welcome.
I think its normal as it happens with my 1004 also. Even i had this concern and someone told me its normal.
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Old 18th May 2009, 23:52   #21
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Its normal. Don't worry. There will not be any problem with it until it goes into protect mode. (very bleak chances of that happening though)
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Old 10th September 2009, 11:53   #22
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Bumping this thread to post an important update! Let's run it by chronology:

1. I ordered my Clarion DXZ785USB from ebay.sg (shipped from USA) on June 24. On July 7, my colleague in Singapore invited me for a video chat, and showed me the package that had just arrived! My day was made!

2. On 26 July, I returned from Singapore with the HU. Kept it in storage, waiting for the rest of the stuff (speakers, subwoofer) to arrive.

3. On August 11, I picked up Illusion Electra 6.1 speakers from a Tbhp friend who had used them for about 8-9 months. A week before, I had asked LBM to keep a GZTW-30T for me. I had to now wait for the installation for a few weeks.

4. On September 4, I called LBM and fixed a time for Saturday (next day for the install). Saturday, reached Faridabad at around 1:30, work started almost immediately. Wires were laid and relaid. I got JBL RCAs, JBL subwoofer wire (same as my previous JBL kit), Illusion Reference speaker wire and some JBL speaker wire for the rear speakers). The front doors were damped with Noisekill, the inside panel of the boot was damped with whatever remained of the damping sheet.

5. Out came my Pioneer 2050 and in went Clarion. The 30T was installed first in a ported enclosure and I gave it an audition. Then we put it in a sealed enclosure and tested again- the bass was punchier and kicking well. So decided to go with sealed.

6. The installation then proceeded at a slow pace (electricity was out and we had run out of spacer rings)- by the time front components went in their place and everything seemed fine- it was 9:30 PM, which meant little time for any tuning. LBM had to reach Delhi at 11PM, but he patiently sat to tune the gains and HU settings. When it seemed all reasonable, we (my friend and I left the place at around 10 pm).

Part two continues in the next post....
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Old 10th September 2009, 12:00   #23
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congrats Rishi.. cant wait to see the pics :-)
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Old 10th September 2009, 12:08   #24
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we (my friend and I left the place at around 10 pm)...

Part II

7. Initial impressions were sweet- I finally had front soundstage and the legendary sound from Electras was a revelation for both of us (me and my friend)! But we found bass a little muddy and not entirely in sync. Still, listening to some good old AR Rahman and some club music kept us entirely busy, if not the gazillion settings possible from the Clarion HU.

8. The tweeters were placed on a temporary position on the base of A-pillar (on dash), pointing rather nice at diagonal seat's headrest. The double-tape kept coming off from tweeters' back and we had to keep pressing them like every 15 mins to keep them stuck. Later, I will see if i need to mount them into doors.

9. 6 September, the sound listening sessions continued from around 11 am. I first thought of readjusting the gains as the bass was a little overpowering. Adjusted SW gains from the amp a little downward to balance the sound. However, the bass from SW was not just muddy, but it also sounded like a one-note thump! So much so that I even felt that music sounded better with the SW turned off. I thought it was a TA issue, or with gains. Had a few rounds of chat with other T-Bhpians (Frank, it was your point). Reversed the polarity of subwoofer wires from the amp and voila! The sub finally started playing different notes nicely! Happy, I put the screwdriver back in my car pocket and went for another of my long drives.

10. The single-note issue was resolved, but the bass was still muddy and thumpy. Moreover, it actually felt like the bass was playing in a separate room and not well integrated with the front stage. I thought it was the industrial-strength MDF tray in my boot that was blocking the LF (I know they can't and wouldn't ) Anyway, the MDF thankfully had a 12" hole pre-drilled and held back with tiny plywood stoppers. So I took them out. And at the same time, thought of readjusting the subwoofer gains a little higher. By chance I glanced at the 'bass boost' setting on the amp- it was turned 'on'!!! I put it to off, and sat back and listened to music. Not surprising, the bass was totally gone! Came out again, readjusted the gains on rear channels (subwoofer) and this time the subwoofer really opened up! Man it sounded so much better!

11. 8 and 9 September: I wanted to set the gains perfectly, so I drove practically with a screwdriver in my hand. Once I had set the front gains too high, and the tiny tweeters perhaps got too much power and sounded a little harsh (admittedly on loud volumes). Readjusted the front gains lower, then the sw gains higher, then front gains higher, sw gains lower..then some more...now I think the gains are set perfectly.

Part three continues in the next post
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Old 10th September 2009, 12:25   #25
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now I think the gains are set perfectly...

Part III

Before I continue and bring the story up to date, a big round of thanks to LBM, Abhinav and Frank for listening to my confounding descriptions patiently and suggesting the ways out! I particularly bugged LBM repeatedly several times, he was always available for suggesting the best solution. Although he kept saying that he'll work on the car tuning whenever we meet next, I was a little too impatient (and also super excited) to arm myself with a screwdriver, manuals and whatever little knowledge I've gained on this forum to set up and readjust amp gains, crossover settings and TA. But I know my set up is anxiously waiting for LBM's divine touch. Now back to story...

12. I am thinking that the system is about 80% ready (in other words, I am about 80% satisfied). Some of the issues I am facing are:

- It still needs TA to be set up properly (sw part is set, but I feel the front soundstage needs to improve vastly in width, depth and elevation).

- The midbass is playing fine, but I feel it could do with a little more thump in the 80-300hz band (The sw is LPFed at 80hz and mid-bass take over from 80hz upwards).

- The subwoofer is far better defined and plays well and truly integrated. But I still miss a little more flow of bass in cabin (again this could be a mid-bass issue). A quick question, how long does a brand new sub take to break-in and play at its best (in hours of music)?

- Off and on, I felt the tweeters are a little harsh for my taste (sacrilege, you Electra lovers might scream!) Maybe it's because of one of them playing on-axis, but I'd want them to go a little low. I might change the crossover setting to tweeter to -3db (if they are at 0db) and see how it plays.

- Overall, I also felt that the sound is a little neutral and lacks a little warmth. Now this is contentious even to me, I know I'm benchmarking poor Electras running on JBL 1004 against LBM's car speakers running off Stegs (my benchmark these days! :P), but I'd prefer the sound to be a little warmer. Maybe, just maybe, this is the beginning of my going ol' Frank's way :(

To overcome some of these problems, I discussed with LBM about the option of going active. I was thinking of buying a separate 2-channel amp to power tweeters, but LBM had a far better idea- since Clarion is capable of 18wrms per channel, we can run the tweeters off the HU and go active! This sounds super exciting and I need to explore this in more detail.

That's it from my side for the moment guys- comments, questions and feedback most welcome and appreciated! Pics will come soon ( I still need to take final install pics, although the tweeter placement is still a WIP).
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Old 10th September 2009, 16:39   #26
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congrats Rishi.. cant wait to see the pics :-)
Kya Panky bhai you are always unreachable on phone :( Traveling shaveling kar rahe the kya? I had some qs about the Clarion but later found the answers myself! Pics will come by tomorrow or Saturday definately.

Amazing no other comments so far, and I thought I'll be having a little discussion on things like going active with tweeters powered directly through HU, or how to widen the soundstage and also elevate it. Gurus, please comment!!
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Old 10th September 2009, 20:11   #27
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It's good to know that you enjoying the Clarion capabilities. Great detail write up. Addressing to your midbass I would suggest you to make use of the P.Eq instead of using the Bass and treble setting. With use of 3 band P.eq. you can boost or cut the freq. For instance activate the P.Eq and go onto setting. Set the Band 1 at 80hz or 100hz with Q being at 1, set the gains as you desire.
Set the band 2 at anywhere between 1.25khz to 2khz with Q being 1 or at 3, again set the again +/-, see what sounds better. Usually the midbass playing the mids upto 3 khz will have a drop when played it in off-axis anywhere above 2khz. Boosting the signal around 2khz will help in improving the vocals, attack on guitar and high drums. Band 3 can be used for setting higher freq. set at 8khz or 10khz with Q being at 1, set the gain as you desire. I suggest you try this with few tracks. First listen to the track over and over with your present settings and than listen to it with setting the EQ. Make sure your put the sub and TA off before you do this.
Also, I suggest you try the position for the tweeter on A piller just about 3-4 inches higher than the dash floor facing each other or at 30 degrees in an angle. There is no harm in trying it. Play around with other location too.

What is the internal volume of the Sub enclosure ?
I feel the enclosure size will be smaller than required making it boost the certain freq above 50hz resulting the sound muddy.
Looking at the specs of the sub and with some math, keeping the QTc at .707 ( which results in linear flat response through out the freq ) 1.4 cu.ft is what suited. However it would perform well in a 1.cu.ft enclosure as well with 1-1.5 pound of Polyfill.
Also, check the polarity of the midbass and tweeter on the passive xover, invert and see if there is any improvment.

Going Active will surely be good but one needs to determine what freq the tweeter and midbass can handle along with their individual power, so that their xover point and their roll-off could be decided along with their T/S parameters.
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Old 10th September 2009, 21:46   #28
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Congrats on the upgrades Rishi.
Waiting for the pictures now.
As far as i remember , the tweeters were on 0 db when you recieved them.
Do see the crossover and try. Or else try to use them a bit off axis and see. Do fiddle with the tweeter position a bit to see what suits you best.

Also, get rid of the rears is what i will say. It will destroy your sound stage. Plus go active using either a 2 channel amp or the HU's inbuilt amp ( I'd prefer the 1st option).

Congrats again and enjoy the music.
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Old 10th September 2009, 23:33   #29
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Usually the midbass playing the mids upto 3 khz will have a drop when played it in off-axis anywhere above 2khz. Boosting the signal around 2khz will help in improving the vocals, attack on guitar and high drums.
Man you sure seem to know exactly what I need!

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Also, I suggest you try the position for the tweeter on A piller just about 3-4 inches higher than the dash floor facing each other or at 30 degrees in an angle.
How on mother earth do I make the tweeters stick to A-pillar above the dash (it's a Santro)? They just fall off the double tape, or even bring the tape down with them.

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What is the internal volume of the Sub enclosure? I feel the enclosure size will be smaller than required making it boost the certain freq above 50hz resulting the sound muddy.
Looking at the specs of the sub and with some math, keeping the QTc at .707 ( which results in linear flat response through out the freq ) 1.4 cu.ft is what suited. However it would perform well in a 1.cu.ft enclosure as well with 1-1.5 pound of Polyfill.
I don't know the exact volume but it definitely is less than 1.4, perhaps even less than 1.2 cu.ft. What effect would lowering the volume have on sub performance?

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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Also, check the polarity of the midbass and tweeter on the passive xover, invert and see if there is any improvment.
Definitely, my To Do #1 for this Saturday.

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Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Going Active will surely be good but one needs to determine what freq the tweeter and midbass can handle along with their individual power, so that their xover point and their roll-off could be decided along with their T/S parameters.
I am sure these parameters can be found out easily. But how far does going active actually benefit the sound stage?
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Old 10th September 2009, 23:45   #30
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Congrats on the upgrades Rishi.
Waiting for the pictures now.
As far as i remember , the tweeters were on 0 db when you recieved them.
Do see the crossover and try. Or else try to use them a bit off axis and see. Do fiddle with the tweeter position a bit to see what suits you best.

Also, get rid of the rears is what i will say. It will destroy your sound stage. Plus go active using either a 2 channel amp or the HU's inbuilt amp ( I'd prefer the 1st option).

Congrats again and enjoy the music.
Thanks buddy. I will inspect the crossover closely this Saturday morning, might call you for help with the -db tweeter setting. About keeping tweeters off-axis, only option I can see is thrusting them into the doors, but that's like a one-way street. Anything else you can recommend?

Forgot to mention, I have disconnected the rears 3 days ago (from the speakers)

Now that LBM suggested it, I am itching to go active. Will first see how it responds with HU amp (heard that tweeters won't need more than 10-12 watts RMS any which way)
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