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Old 19th May 2009, 19:14   #1
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Default Noise Cancellation in Car cabin - Possible?

Hi folks,

Was just wondering if anyone has tried the noise cancellation in the car cabin.. Is there a way with which it can be achieved? eg : active specific sound signal? It's possible with damping to some extent, but here I'm talking about a dead silence that one experiences with noise-cancellation headphones.

Idea is to have a very quite car cabin.. so as to facilitate proper music listening or otherwise just for the 'peace'.

Inputs please..
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Old 19th May 2009, 20:09   #2
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the new accord comes with this system as well as most luxury cars. To avoid engine and outside noise in the cabin. They are active systems which use strategically placed devices to cancel noise
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Old 19th May 2009, 20:20   #3
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Double glazed windows.
Double lining of window/door trims(preferably non hollow types of rubber tubing)
Dampening sheets
FRP lining with foam inset on flooring,firewall and boot partitions

I think the above should be achievable as a mod. If more detailed thought processes and execution is required , i think a wee bit of study on the Lexus Cars(specially the LS Series) could give a better insight on how manufacturers achieve noise deadening via non electronic means.

Last edited by absynthguzzler : 19th May 2009 at 20:21.
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Old 19th May 2009, 20:38   #4
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someone had asked this before . something interesting navin posted back then
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
A few years ago Accura, Lexus and Infiniti engineers had designed cabins that were disconcertingly quiet. During test drives the press complained that they were not comfortable and eventually "the right" ammount of noise was engineered back in.
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Old 19th May 2009, 21:02   #5
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the new honda accord V6 comes with this feature, where there are microphones placed in the cabin.
the microphones pick up the ambient noise in the cabin and the car speakers (ICE) let out a 'reversing' or negative wave which makes the frequencies redundant, hence reducing the perception of cabin sound. very very clever. and I really wish it filters down to normal cars. hell, even if its after market, i will buy it.
after all it has one processor(central unit) and a mic! speakers can be bought EXPRESSLY for that purpose too..

panky bhai, very very good question!
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Old 19th May 2009, 21:41   #6
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Will it not be dangerous? Since we usually come to know of many problems mostly from abnormal sounds.
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Old 19th May 2009, 21:58   #7
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2009 Chevy Equinox also comes with std active noise cancellation.
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Old 19th May 2009, 22:01   #8
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Ambient Noise Reduction is a challenge when it comes to an enclosed area.
there are couple of ways it can be achieved

1. Noise isolation: Isolating the noise from entering the cabin. Listening rooms and recording studios employ these concepts
2. Noise cancellation : this needs a reference noise level. generally common mode measurement technique is used. there are single microphone or dual microphone solution. single mic solution uses software to simulate the reference noise to negate the ambient noise. Dual microphone solution uses differentiated (from different locations in the cabin) noise signals to generate the reference noise.

Doing this noise cancellation in digital signal domain is easier, but analog domain is difficult. currently these concepts are used in high quality active headphones, mobile phones etc.
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Old 20th May 2009, 13:04   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarVegabond View Post
... noise cancellation in digital signal domain is easier, but analog domain is difficult. ...
Almost all of the implementations are in analog domain. It is not at all difficult since the number of variables are quite limited. "Active", or noise-canceling headphones / headsets do it in the analog domain by very simple means.

Going digital is *costly*, hence avoided. Thinking "digital processing is easy" is only for the concept - one would be simplistically ignoring the Mips needed, and what is needed for the signal to be in the digital domain! Mobile phones don't use noise-cancellation, Bluetooth headsets - like Jawbone - do.
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Old 20th May 2009, 16:56   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
the new honda accord V6 comes with this feature, where there are microphones placed in the cabin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarVegabond View Post
1. Noise isolation: Isolating the noise from entering the cabin. Listening rooms and recording studios employ these concepts
2. Noise cancellation : this needs a reference noise level. generally common mode measurement technique is used. there are single microphone or dual microphone solution. single mic solution uses software to simulate the reference noise to negate the ambient noise. Dual microphone solution uses differentiated (from different locations in the cabin) noise signals to generate the reference noise.
Since as drivers we need aural feedback from the world around us a completely noiseles cabin can be detremental to our driving.

Imagine that you are changing lanes and unwittingly cutting in front of a 18 wheel trailer. The trailer blows his horn but your noise cancellation quickly and efficeintly eliminates this noise from the cabin of your car...
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Old 20th May 2009, 16:59   #11
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Navin, that is a scary thought!!
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Old 20th May 2009, 17:00   #12
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will the inner voice become louder or go silent?
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Old 20th May 2009, 17:07   #13
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Dont know about inner voice but My voice will be restricted since I will have my heart in my mouth
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Old 20th May 2009, 17:08   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Imagine that you are changing lanes and unwittingly cutting in front of a 18 wheel trailer. The trailer blows his horn but your noise cancellation quickly and efficeintly eliminates this noise from the cabin of your car...

To ask a very basic question - how does noise cancellation technology identify what "niose" needs to be canceled out?

After all - these cars (ones that currently come with noise cancellation) do have ICE setups (and pardon me for comparing ICE to noise). So the system would identify what's noise (engine noise, tyre noise) and only cancel those.

I'm having trouble relating an 18 wheeler's horn with these other noise sources.
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Old 20th May 2009, 17:30   #15
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In 2005, i had met the CEO of a famous german company who is world leader in horns and headlamps. This German guy told me that when initially their were introduced in India, they had major failures, when they analyzed they found that within the first hour the car is on the road, the designed life of the horns was over.
In Western world, horns are blown only 4-5 times over their life time of the car.
but In India it is done before the car exits the show room.

we need to learn how to drive without horns. there are other indicators available
viz. head lamps, L/R indicators, rear-view mirrors etc. those will help in a noise free environment provided we are disciplined to follow them while we drive. If we do so, we might not need the Noise cancellation

Last edited by StarVegabond : 20th May 2009 at 17:31.
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