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Old 29th May 2009, 18:17   #1
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Default Amplifier DAC & DSP suggestion

My Car Audio specs: (Swift Hatchback)

HU: Pioneer 6950IB Amps: Pioneer gm6300F: & Alpine V12 (Realized on this forum that its fake)
Blaupunkt: Daytona Beach (Cassette Player) (Through AUX)
SUB: 30-cm (12") Pioneer TS-W307D4 in a Bass FX square box
Rear Speakers: Pioneer TS-A6992S in Bass FX Tray.
Front Components: JBL 607c
The rear and front are driven by pioneer amp & the sub by Alpine.

I have five questions for the gurus advise:

1. My friend has a Pioneer DEQ7600 15 Band Digital Graphic Equalizer installed in his Chevy which gives a hall surround type effect connecting the rear and fronts quite effectively and the advantage of enhancing certain tones. I also wish to install the same EQ in my Car. My question is apart from tone adjustments is there any other benefit of using a separate equalizer.
2. Many friends of mine tell me that analogue sounds are better than digital sound and to do that a DAC is required. Can you guys please tell me is it true? Personally speaking I donít have a clue what they are talking about.
3. I need to change my fake alpine AMP, please recommend an AMP which can drive a parallel connection. I am told to drive a parallel connection by using both coils u need a kicker amp @ 2 OHM as my woofer is 4 ohm each coil (Budget 20 - 25,000) is it true? I donít mind changing the sub or is it due to the amp.
4. I wish to change my front components as they are quite bright even at loud off. Any recommendation. I have personally made a choice for Alpine SPS- 171A.
5. Lastly how important is the role of Head unit as I have been told that anything above 7000 RS sounds the same.
MY sound priority is Soft Highs, Prominent vocals & Soft but punchy bass (Not boomy)
My total budget is around 50,000/- The reason for changing is not that with the current setup I am dis-satisfied but I want better sound as I travel frequently.
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Old 29th May 2009, 18:58   #2
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1. Change the sub.
2. Change the alpine amp.
3. Change your 'universal bass reflex tube (glass)' enclosure. They're a waste of wood, glass and your money!
4. Change your rear speakers.
5. The gain settings on your amps 'should' be full or close to 90%,change them.
6. Try your JBLs on a different amp, they would sure be sounding good! (I've had (and still running - in other car) and they sound excellent.
7. Dont let any 'professional' (read a person whose motive is to sell you any product) evaluate your stuff for you.. you could end up wasting your hard earned money- I'm a victim! Trust your OWN ears without external gyaan!
8. As per gurus here, external EQs are a waste of money.. but I quite like them.
9. Theres no rule of 7000 for HU.. who knows you end up liking a JVC for say 4000. Its all about features that the unit boasts. If you're a pure SQ guy, then you'd require a little extra money over and above your total budget to get the audiophile HU. ;-))
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Old 30th May 2009, 07:22   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahuls21297 View Post

[/b]1. My friend has a Pioneer DEQ7600 15 Band Digital Graphic Equalizer

2. Many friends of mine tell me that analogue sounds are better than digital sound and to do that a DAC is required.

3. I need to change my fake alpine AMP, please recommend an AMP which can drive a parallel connection.

4. I wish to change my front components as they are quite bright even at loud off. Any recommendation. I have personally made a choice for Alpine SPS- 171A.

5. Lastly how important is the role of Head unit as I have been told that anything above 7000 RS sounds the same.

My total budget is around 50,000/- The reason for changing is not that with the current setup I am dis-satisfied but I want better sound as I travel frequently.
a. If you like the processing the EQ does by all means get it but since it does not help produce natural sound we uaually do not recommend such products. Besides many of them add distortion (the sort that is not noticeable at first but leads to listening fatigue over long poeriods).

b. Your HU has a DAC.

c. For Amp think Kenwood, Pioneer, JBL, Blaupunkt. In the 7K budget they are about the best you can get your hands on.

d. for front components listen to a few brands. Infinity is usaully less bright than JBL and from the same stable. Other brands you could consider (along with the Alpine) is Bull or Illusion but these are not as well distributed as JBL/Blaupunkt/Alpine.

e. 2 Rs. 25,000 HU do not sound the same.

---------------
1. I'd get less bright front speakers. Use the 607 in another car or trade/gift them. (8K)

2. I'd get a nice monoblock and sub (25K)

3. Spend some money (5K) on damping the front doors, firewall and trunk.

Then take stock and see if you like what you got. One step at a time. This way you dont waste money.

Last edited by navin : 30th May 2009 at 07:23.
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Old 30th May 2009, 10:30   #4
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Was wondering about an external DAC yesterday and lo!, today there's a new thread. The forum never ceases to amaze.
Pursuing with the original query. What are the options of adding a good external DAC as they do in a home stereo setup? For eg, I have a Pio 4950 HU (3 pre-outs). Should it not be possible to use a better ext DAC than the one on the HU? A DAC that could also have TA capability?
This way, one can have a bit more freedom of choosing/upgrading a HU based on newer features like USB/SD/iPod/BT etc, without bothering about the SQ, since the DAC would handle it.
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Old 30th May 2009, 11:23   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahuls21297 View Post
...
2. Many friends of mine tell me that analogue sounds are better than digital sound and to do that a DAC is required. Can you guys please tell me is it true? Personally speaking I don’t have a clue what they are talking about.
...
4. I wish to change my front components as they are quite bright even at loud off. ...
Sound that your ears hear it is analog. If the recorded or received source is digital like ACD, MP3 etc. a DAC is required to convert it to analog. Conventional radio (FM, AM) is analog, Worldspace/XM/Sirius is digital. All CD/MP3 and DVD HUs have DACs.

Bright components will sound brighter with Loudness off, like coffee tastes less bitter with sugar, even though sugar does not remove the bitterness chemically.

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Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
... Should it not be possible to use a better ext DAC than the one on the HU? A DAC that could also have TA capability?
...
Not very practical, dada. A DAC is a simple output component just before the source selector / volume control / preamp, it cannot have sound processing capabilities. Conventional HUs do not give any provision to direct digital stream from its internal sources to an external DAC. In HUs that digitally process sound (TA etc.), processing like selective phase shift and level increase/decrease is done before the final stream is submitted to a DAC. Otherwise, CD output will sound great with TA but FM will sound flat.

Last edited by DerAlte : 30th May 2009 at 11:26.
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Old 30th May 2009, 11:36   #6
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@shuvd, to add features like TA, active capability etc, we can add sound processors like the Alpine PXA H601 or the H701. They aren't DACs, but we do get a lot of control over how we want our ICE to be setup.

Last edited by hydrashok : 30th May 2009 at 11:39.
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Old 30th May 2009, 11:50   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Conventional HUs do not give any provision to direct digital stream from its internal sources to an external DAC.
Hmm. I overlooked that point !
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
@shuvd, to add features like TA, active capability etc, we can add sound processors like the Alpine PXA H601 or the H701. They aren't DACs, but we do get a lot of control over how we want our ICE to be setup.
This is actually what I was probably trying to get at. A processor essentially. Do these Alpine's work with any HU?
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Old 30th May 2009, 12:46   #8
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They would, since they are essentially taking in an analog signal from the HU Pre-out, converting it to digital, fiddling with its properties and then DAC it back to analog again.
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Old 30th May 2009, 14:12   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
...This is actually what I was probably trying to get at. A processor essentially. Do these Alpine's work with any HU?
Yep, as DerAlte said, these processors will work with any HU. They take audio-input from the HU's pre-outs.

Now, getting the processor will also involve getting a controller unit if your HU is a not an Alpine unit with touchscreen input. I'm not 100% sure of this, but I don't think non-Alpine touchscreen HUs will be able to control the processor.

The separate controller unit will fit in a 1-din slot, and is essentially just like a HU faceplate. You will also need extra RCAs to connect the HU to the processor (in addition to the RCAs going from the processor into the amp/s).

Frankly, I think it would make a lot more economic sense getting a new HU with all the features you need, instead of going for the processor. Unless you have a nice 2-din Alpine IVA series unit sitting in your dash.
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Old 30th May 2009, 20:34   #10
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How is/was LBM controlling his Alpine PXA with the HU being Pio P80? There must be a direct method on its front plate.
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Old 31st May 2009, 12:39   #11
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Thanks Navin & Panky am going to change the sub and amp. Made a selection of Blaupunkt GTA 480 need some input on the sub to go with it (8 - 10 K range) Also I would like to know how would you rate the
Alpine SPS- 171A. I saw some good Pioneer components as well but the shopkeeper told me not to go for pioneers.
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Old 31st May 2009, 13:42   #12
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rahul: since you're 'supposedly' unhappy with JBL 607 because of its bright nature.. why not try Illusion Audio 6.1 or Ground Zero Titanium seies. Feel free to contact me if you need audition for GZ and Abhinav for IA 6.1.

whatever your choices are: Make sure that you listen BEFORE you buy.
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Old 31st May 2009, 13:42   #13
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@DerAlte, lbm has an Alpine RUX controller (the controller for the Processor) slotted into the 2nd DIN slot, right under the P80 RS. The controller looks just like a typical Alpine HU.
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Old 31st May 2009, 13:48   #14
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Yes I have the RUX controller which is used to control the PXA. The PXA is not a average equipment I would say. It is a very serious equipment and works best with the matched equipment with equal grade. I would say another serious Audiophile stuff.

One would need to be very serious when getting in this segment. I think the Rahuls who budget would be less than the PXA-RUX. Do not mind Rahuls...
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Old 31st May 2009, 22:18   #15
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How much does the RUX-PXA combo cost?
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