Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th June 2009, 16:37   #31
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,509
Thanked: 3,884 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
I thought any sub can be made to sound upfront - "integration with front stage" - by manipulating the relative phase of the low f part
TA just makes this whoel excersie so much easier besides TA is variable. Most sub amps only have a 0/180 phase switch. With TA you can set the delay in ms.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 16:45   #32
Senior - BHPian
 
iceman91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: melbourne/bangalore
Posts: 1,958
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

so 48k for a 12" Ultimo is worth it? or better producsts available? I prefer SQ not BOOM BOOM.
iceman91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 17:08   #33
Senior - BHPian
 
Invinsible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Well I may be right or I may be wrong. But how many subs can blend with the front stage without using the TA /EQ.
Let's have a list of them. I would be interested in one.
Iceman you can have a read on caraudiomag.com, there is a review on Morel Ultimo.
Invinsible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 17:10   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
iceman91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: melbourne/bangalore
Posts: 1,958
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Thanks invinsible!
will check it out.
iceman91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 17:24   #35
Senior - BHPian
 
Invinsible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Well I may be right or I may be wrong. But how many subs can blend with the front stage without using the TA /EQ.
Let's have a list of them. I would be interested in one.
Iceman you can have a read on caraudiomag.com, there is a review on Morel Ultimo.
Invinsible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 17:31   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
Invinsible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman91 View Post
Thanks invinsible!
will check it out.
You will need to look for a sub with low inductance, important for faster transient response/wider bandwidth and low moving mass, allowing higher efficiency. Let's us ask the experts here to list the one's available here.
Invinsible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 17:45   #37
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Faridabad
Posts: 6,814
Thanked: 294 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
You will need to look for a sub with low inductance, important for faster transient response/wider bandwidth and low moving mass, allowing higher efficiency. Let's us ask the experts here to list the one's available here.
If there is Higher Efficiency then there will a little fall in the low end part.

There should be a good balance of all the things.
low_bass_makker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 19:25   #38
Senior - BHPian
 
Invinsible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
If there is Higher Efficiency then there will a little fall in the low end part.

There should be a good balance of all the things.
Well a good example will be of subs which have low inductance and low moving mass would Aura Sound NS series and JBL wgti series. They do go low and have strong bottom end. This is something what is known to me as I had also questioned Dan Wiggins about this and got the same response.
Iceman you could also consider one of these, they have an advantage over Morels and would cost less unless you get one from US. At the cost of Morel you can find many subs which are better in sound and have technological advantage.
Am not sure if Wgti subs are available here. May be Sambhai could conform this.

Last edited by Invinsible : 17th June 2009 at 19:34.
Invinsible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 21:05   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,876 Times
Default

Err... who is Dan Wiggins? Sorry, but the farthest I have heard on this subject is from Guru Vinny, Sam Kapasi, Harmeet Singh Shetty and Bhai Freedabadwale.
DerAlte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17th June 2009, 22:46   #40
Senior - BHPian
 
Bass&Trouble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,744
Thanked: 71 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Well I may be right or I may be wrong. But how many subs can blend with the front stage without using the TA /EQ.
Let's have a list of them.
There's only one, it's called .. 'Magic' sub.

There are few major factors (and many not-so-major ones) that would determine whether what you are saying will happen or not -

1. Installer
2. Car
3. Front Speakers
4. Location of Sub

While you do need a good subwoofer driver, any of the above could very easily play spoilsport if not chosen wisely.
Bass&Trouble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 01:28   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
m4ugr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 1,291
Thanked: 123 Times
Default

I had personally checked out the Morel Tempo Series component speakers, and the build quality was not impressive at all, Considering the price its available at, around 13k I suppose, The build quality failed to impress me and I was made to think twice before spending 13k on it.

Did not get a chance to hear it, so cant comment on the SQ capabilities of the drivers. There are far many options available at that price, which may sound even better.

@DerAlte: have you heard the Morel Ultimo series subwoofer??
m4ugr8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 10:21   #42
Senior - BHPian
 
iceman91's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: melbourne/bangalore
Posts: 1,958
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

invinsible that whole post flew over my head
only understood JBL from the whole post
iceman91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 12:05   #43
Senior - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,876 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ugr8 View Post
... @DerAlte: have you heard the Morel Ultimo series subwoofer??
No sir, I am waiting for someone to buy one and humbly request for an audition. At that price, I will have to file for Chapter 11 if I have to buy it, but then there always better endowed members here who can.

But, even without hearing one personally, one can be / has to be skeptical of claims which defy conventional logic (experienced by thousands around the world), physics and good old common sense. I don't look down on any product, since in good hands and within limits, a 4.8K sub can be made to sound like one that costs 48K. As Navin puts it, we are always on the lookout for something that can give us goosebumps, but not because of price or show-off value.
DerAlte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 12:35   #44
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,509
Thanked: 3,884 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
You will need to look for a sub with low inductance, important for faster transient response/wider bandwidth and low moving mass, allowing higher efficiency. Let's us ask the experts here to list the one's available here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Err... who is Dan Wiggins?
Dan Wiggins was the founder of Adire Audio. Adire became famous for their subwoofers (used for Home Theater). These subs (other than the Koda and Parthenon) were given names of Indian gods - Khosala, Kanada, Kiri, Daeva, Rava, Dharman, Shiva. Brahma, etc or stormy weather aka Tempest, Maelstorm, Tumult etc..

Dan Wiggins answered almost every mail he recieved himself as honestly and correctly as he could and hence many people quote him becuase his answers were most often correct, well addressed and put simply. He wrote a lot of papers (the most notable are the ones on Group Delay, Subwoofer placement and tuning, and explaining his XBL2 technology). His research in subwoofe rmotors (XBL2) has been absorbed by ScanSpeak, Dynaudio and even Skanning some call it using other names like Direct Drive but what XBL did was to make the subwoofer more linear during it's excusrsion hence reducing subwoofer distortion as shown here
Subwoofer driver comparison

Today affordable drivers wit XBL technology can be got from Creative Sound (CSS), Peerless, etc.

That's the jist of what I know. LBM or some of the better Googlemeisters and dig up links and other info. What I know is from what I have read over the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
As Navin puts it, we are always on the lookout for something that can give us goosebumps, but not because of price or show-off value.
If a speaker system or for that matter an audio system can get my feet tapping and me enjoying the music rather than looking for defects in the recording, mastering or pressing processes it is doing it's job. Some companies (pre 80s Klipsch, Magneplanar, B&K, etc.) have done this consistently. Of the
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th June 2009, 13:35   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
Invinsible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Quote:
Today affordable drivers wit XBL technology can be got from Creative Sound (CSS), Peerless, etc.
Not many of them are able to succed even with having XBL^2 technology, as the other factors also matter, some sound thick, some sound dry, some have a good low end but get dry on top end frequency. But yes they do help produce undistorted sound even on higher output/high excursion as they help in creating flat BL curve. Also like to add to that Exodus Audio, RE XXX, and there are lot many but don't have big names so their selling is limited to US. Also learnt from DAN, that Peerless India is coming up Neo Magnet XBL^2 for a well known brand Not sure if I can disclose the name of the same.

Here's little info on DAN Wiggins in addition to what Navin mentioned.

"Dan Wiggins is ADI’s Chief Technical Officer and resident Mad Scientist. An Electrical Engineer by training, he has 20 years of professional engineering experience. His acoustics background includes SONAR, ultrasound, and audio transducer and system development. He has developed several patented, patent-pending, and proprietary technologies targeted towards improving linearity in acoustical transducers. In addition to his technical background, Dan has fifteen years of executive level engineering management experience leading cross-discipline teams in research and development in a wide variety of product markets, including 3 years as a lead Design Engineer at Sundstrand Data Control, 5 years as Chief Engineer of BioSonics, Inc., a leading manufacturer of scientific and research SONAR systems, and 7 years as President and CEO of Extremis Audio LLC where he launched many revolutionary products and technologies in the consumer audio markets."

Last edited by Invinsible : 18th June 2009 at 13:45.
Invinsible is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
On a strict budget, Swift gets some SQ ICE (Morel/Kenwood/Blaupunkt) thelord In-Car Entertainment 37 6th September 2011 12:49
'ICE Upgrade In My Swift.......Finally - Morel Tempo & Pioneer P80RSII Epic In-Car Entertainment 106 18th March 2011 13:05
Presenting my Swift Symphony - | Morel | Rockford Fosgate | Kenwood | Blaupunkt | Mi10 In-Car Entertainment 14 23rd September 2010 08:46
Morel vs DLS {High End Tweeters - High levels of confusion} Mi10 In-Car Entertainment 5 8th September 2010 18:03


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 18:42.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks