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Old 6th June 2011, 17:19   #16
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
At 40K the Mosconi is about twice the price of the other amps mentioned in my most above and 3 times the price of the Focal Solid 1.
Actually the amps mentioned by you are Mono Amps, I will still require another amp for my fronts. For eg: I am currently considering the Focal Solid 1 and Focal Solid 4 (together costing me 32K). The Mosconi AS 100.4 whcih will replace both would be 9k more expenisve. But with the others it might be the same cost.

Any idea if Mosconi is officially available in India ?? And I talked about of Mosconi because i read a few good reviews about it.. any other 4 Channel amps. I understand that STEG has closed shop, heard some good reviews about DLS Ultimate series, but again not sure on quality, Availability etc?

If the following amplifiers are availabile in India (preferably Mumbai) officially with Bill and Warranty and if so what are their price:

Mosconi AS 100.4
DLS ultimate A4
DLS ultimate A5

Any first hand feedback available on them would be appreciated.

Thanks

Last edited by navin : 7th June 2011 at 10:30. Reason: merged 2 posts.
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Old 7th June 2011, 10:23   #17
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

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Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
Actually the amps mentioned by you are Mono Amps, I will still require another amp for my fronts. For eg: I am currently considering the Focal Solid 1 and Focal Solid 4 (together costing me 32K). The Mosconi AS 100.4 whcih will replace both would be 9k more expenisve. But with the others it might be the same cost.

Any idea if Mosconi is officially available in India ?? And I talked about of Mosconi because i read a few good reviews about it.. any other 4 Channel amps. I understand that STEG has closed shop, heard some good reviews about DLS Ultimate series, but again not sure on quality, Availability etc?
My bad. I thought you were considering only an amp to replace the Focal Solid 1.

If you are looking at a 4 channel amp that will drive 2 ohms in bridged mode your options are limited. Best to consider amps that are 1 ohm stable in stereo/4ch. mode. The Focal FP4164 is not rated at 1ohms (stereo) or 2 ohms (bridged) is it?

I assume that Mosconi (check availability with Ajay as having represented Steg before he might have news about their availability that he can share) might be your best bet.

Other options in this range are Genesis, Sinfoni, Audison, Brax, DLS Ultimate, etc..

Jinu, I have merged your post on another thread with this one as it is related to the same discussion.

Last edited by navin : 7th June 2011 at 10:29.
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Old 7th June 2011, 10:38   #18
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
The Focal FP4164 is not rated at 1ohms (stereo) or 2 ohms (bridged) is it?
Nope its not. I sent an email to Focal asking about it and they confirmed that the FPS 4164 cannot be setup like that. But since i was planning to use a 4 Ohm DVC they recommended that i use 1 channel per Voice Coil.

But that still wouldnt work becuase each channel is rated for only 120W @ 4 Ohms, whereas the 33V2 is rated at 200W(RMS) per voice coil. So i feel the solution would be highly underpowered.
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Old 7th June 2011, 10:50   #19
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

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Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
But that still wouldnt work becuase each channel is rated for only 120W @ 4 Ohms, whereas the 33V2 is rated at 200W(RMS) per voice coil. So i feel the solution would be highly underpowered.
Solid 1/Solid 4 vs 40K 4 ch. 1 ohm stable amp (aka Mosconi/Genesis/etc..).

a. The Mosconi/Genesis will be much nicer sounding for the front channels.
b. Bass peaks can rob front channels of power if a single amp is used
c. If rear speakers are added the 4 ch. amp will need to be supplemented.

I assume you are bothered about "c" so you have to decide between a and b. If you are not an out and out bass head I'd say go with a.
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Old 7th June 2011, 11:55   #20
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
[

Solid 1/Solid 4 vs 40K 4 ch. 1 ohm stable amp (aka Mosconi/Genesis/etc..).

a. The Mosconi/Genesis will be much nicer sounding for the front channels.
b. Bass peaks can rob front channels of power if a single amp is used
c. If rear speakers are added the 4 ch. amp will need to be supplemented.

I assume you are bothered about "c" so you have to decide between a and b. If you are not an out and out bass head I'd say go with a.
U are right. Not worried about c. Regarding b, I think I can live with that.

Checked the amps out on the net
- Genesis and Sifoni dont have many 4 Channel amps and the ones they do are not powerful enough to drive 400W Sub at 2ohm in bridged mode or do not support 2 Ohm Bridged mode.
- Could not find anything on Brax except that it costs gidzillions and that it is among the best.
- In audison leaving out the Thesis range found LRx 4.1K but not sure how good it is.
- In DLS there is the DLS Ultimate A4 and A5 (again not sure on quality etc)
- Finally the Mosconi, there are 2 options AS100.4 and AS 200.4. The AS 100.4 is rated at 100W @ 4 ohms and 480W @ 2 ohm bridged. But it is 1 Ohm stable only in Stereo mode and not bridged mode. In bridged mode the lowest stable is 2 Ohm. The AS 200.4 is reated at 200W @ 4 ohms and 950W @ 2 ohm bridged. But it is 1 Ohm stable only in Stereo mode and not bridged mode.

The mosconi amps come with a special disclaimer against the 2 Ohm power rating in Bridged mode as mentioned below and i am not sure what it means:
4 Ohm ST or 8 Ohm BTL – CONTINUOUS SINEWAVE SIGNAL - pure resistive load or speaker load
2 Ohm ST or 4 Ohm BTL – MUSICAL SIGNAL - pure resistive load or speaker load
1 Ohm ST or 2 Ohm BTL – MUSICAL SIGNAL - speaker load only

Any thought on this
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Old 7th June 2011, 12:33   #21
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post

Any idea if Mosconi is officially available in India ?? And I talked about of Mosconi because i read a few good reviews about it..
If the following amplifiers are availabile in India (preferably Mumbai) officially with Bill and Warranty and if so what are their price:

Mosconi AS 100.4


Any first hand feedback available on them would be appreciated.

Thanks
Hi

Mosconi is available in India with bill and warranty through BBW Distributors.
I am not sure if they have dealers in Mumbai. But you can always get it shipped from delhi.

I was initially using Gladen One 120.4 and latter upgraded to AS200.4.
Very good amp. Little expensive, but worth the money!!!
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Old 7th June 2011, 13:11   #22
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
The AS 100.4 is rated at 100W @ 4 ohms and 480W @ 2 ohm bridged. But it is 1 Ohm stable only in Stereo mode and not bridged mode. In bridged mode the lowest stable is 2 Ohm. The mosconi amps come with a special disclaimer against the 2 Ohm power rating in Bridged mode as mentioned below and i am not sure what it means:
1 Ohm ST or 2 Ohm BTL – MUSICAL SIGNAL - speaker load only
Very few amps are 1 ohm stable in bridged mode. That would mean that they would be 1/2 ohm stable in stereo mode! You dont need that degree of stability. If you dont push your system to it's absolute max you should be ok with the Mosconi.

Your woofer's nominal load is 2 ohms with both coils in parallel. In fact the woofer's impedance is part reactive and part resistive and the resistive part might drop below 2 ohms for a bit (of the frequency band) but much of the impedance from 20-100Hz will be above 2ohms (both coils parallel).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SumitBahl View Post
Mosconi is available in India with bill and warranty through BBW Distributors.

I was initially using Gladen One 120.4 and latter upgraded to AS200.4.
Nice to hear this. BBW is Gunbir's company na?

How is the 200.4? The amp sure looks sweet. I am jealous!
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Old 7th June 2011, 14:45   #23
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

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Originally Posted by SumitBahl View Post
Hi

I was initially using Gladen One 120.4 and latter upgraded to AS200.4.
Very good amp. Little expensive, but worth the money!!!
Thanks for the info. How much did the AS200.4 cost you ?
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Old 7th June 2011, 22:50   #24
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Nice to hear this. BBW is Gunbir's company na?

How is the 200.4? The amp sure looks sweet. I am jealous!
Yup, BBW is Gunbir's brand.
200.4 is pretty good. Sound is more natural and very high on detail.
VFM amp considering the price and wattage figures. The best thing about the amp is its 2 ohm stable in Bridge Mode and puts out a healthy ~1000W RMS @ 2 ohm whcih is more than enough to power the all mighy iDMax.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
Thanks for the info. How much did the AS200.4 cost you ?
MRP Rs. 65,990 (White Finish). Same amp in silver finish has MRP of Rs. 61,990.
Bought it for 59.5k (incl. shipping) WHITE Finish.
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Old 8th June 2011, 10:18   #25
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

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Originally Posted by SumitBahl View Post
a healthy ~1000W RMS @ 2 ohm whcih is more than enough to power the all mighy iDMax.
If power handling was a woofers limitation consider this...

say your woofer (in a particular box and install location) has a sensitivity spec of 90db/1w/1m @ 100Hz (not unusual given cabin gain etc..).
at 10W this woofer would produce 100db
at 100W, 110db
at 1000W, 120db!
now these are continous numbers not impulse/dynamic numbers which can be higher. Safe listening would presume that these limits are never tested.

Taking an electricians view on this and one could calculate that the woofer voice coil (2 ohms) would be carrying 22A. The diameter would then be about 1.2mm (18SWG), the wire would be over 150 meters long (unwound) and weigh about 1.6kgs! Now this is assuming enamelled copper wire was used. If we used anodised aluminum wire (edge wound, flat wire) the weight would still be about 600gms (aluminum has about 1/4 the density of copper but copper has about about 1.5x the conductance of aluminum). Still moving 1/2 kg of wire would require some energy! Obviously woofer coils are not 500gms in weight.

I always prefer to consider the power handling of woofers based on the physical (Xmax, Cms, Mms etc) contraints than their electrical constraints. A woofer that can easily handle 100W at 100Hz might have diffculty with 100W at 30Hz.

Last edited by navin : 8th June 2011 at 10:21.
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Old 8th June 2011, 15:28   #26
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Ok folks tough call to make.. Do i go with the Mosconi AS100.4 (Rs. 40K) or the Focal Solid 1 + Focal Solid 4 (Rs. 32K). I know that Mosconi is the better amp, but I have the following questions that would help me take a decision:

1. Are the speakers i have choosen (Focal 165KR and Focal 33V2) worthy of the Mosconi AS100.4. It should not be the case of putting jet fuel into a Merc and hope that it will fly :-).

2. What kind of technical support (Warranty services) can i expect from Mosconi versus Focal, especially considering that the distributor for Mosconi is Delhi based (BBW, Gunbir) and I and my installer/dealer are mumbai based. In case of Focal the distributor is Mumbai based (PTC). I would assume that the dealer/installer takes care of warranty but turn around times could be different based on location of distributor...
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Old 8th June 2011, 17:26   #27
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Jinu while the Focal speakers are not top of the line they will do very well with the Mosconi. I suspect the Mosconi setup will sound nicer (I have not heard a Mosconi amp yet, Gunbirji hint hint ).
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Old 9th June 2011, 08:54   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
Ok folks tough call to make.. Do i go with the Mosconi AS100.4 (Rs. 40K) or the Focal Solid 1 + Focal Solid 4 (Rs. 32K). I know that Mosconi is the better amp, but I have the following questions that would help me take a decision:

1. Are the speakers i have choosen (Focal 165KR and Focal 33V2) worthy of the Mosconi AS100.4. It should not be the case of putting jet fuel into a Merc and hope that it will fly :-).

2. What kind of technical support (Warranty services) can i expect from Mosconi versus Focal, especially considering that the distributor for Mosconi is Delhi based (BBW, Gunbir) and I and my installer/dealer are mumbai based. In case of Focal the distributor is Mumbai based (PTC). I would assume that the dealer/installer takes care of warranty but turn around times could be different based on location of distributor...
Any good amp will make a difference.

As for technical support, BBW is excellent.
I have no experience with PTC, so I cannot say anything about their support.
Me and a lot of my friends buy stuff from BBW, their support has been great. Let it be technical support while installing, advice while choosing the products or aftersales support in terms of warranty.
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Old 9th June 2011, 09:46   #29
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Ok So Mosconi it is. My setup now will loook like this
Front - Focal 165KR components
Rear - Nothing
Sub - Focal 33V2 - 4 Ohm DVC
Amp - Mosconi AS 100.4
HU - Alpine 117 + KCE-400BT
Lots of damping (something Ajay will take care off)

Thanks folks for your help in making the decision

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I suspect the Mosconi setup will sound nicer (I have not heard a Mosconi amp yet, Gunbirji hint hint ).
You are most welcome to audition/demo the mosconi amp at my setup when Ajay does it. I will keep you posted.
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