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Old 23rd June 2009, 14:32   #1
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Default Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Hi Folks

This is what i have currently
Car : Optra Elite
HU : Sony MEX3600BT
Fronts : JBL 607c Comps powered by Amp
Rear : JBL PS552 coax powered by HU
Sub : JBL CS 1204B powered by Amp (bridged)
Amp : JBL 74.5

Before you start, let me request that you not ask why in the whole world i picked up a sony. Its a tragic tale of how i got sweet talked into it. So lets leave it there.

Now what i want:
1. Type of Setup - SQ
2. Listening position - Self Driven Vehicle
3. Listening Source - 80% MP3 (320kbps mostly), 5% FM, 15% Audio CD
4. Type of music - Soft/Hard rock(GNR, Eagles, Def Leppard, Modern talking, MLTR, Scorpion etc.), western Classical(Symphonies), Hindi oldies (kishore, lata, Yesudas), AR Rehman. NO metal/Heavy metal
5. Budget - 120K all inclusive
6. HU - must have USB+Bluetooth+TA with excellent SQ.
After a lot of reading i found that it is generally accepted that Eclipse 7200 MK II and Alpine 9887 are the best in SQ (among the ones available in india). I did select Eclipse 7200 MK II. I would have gone for the Apline 9887 + KB400BT + Ipod cable + IMPRINT but then I guess the cost would be more than the eclipse or atleaset the same hence stuck to eclipse since its an all in one and supports USB. If anyone knows of anyother HU that meets my requirement then please suggest. I also considered a separate BT Unit like Parrot but did not like the concept of the BT unit providing audio signal directly to the speakers bypassing the amp. So in effect i will have two volume controls, one on the HU for music and one on the BT unit for phone audio. Also the fact that the amp output is routed thru the BT unit is not appealing.
7. Fronts - I hate it when the highs are too clear, so much that they sound metally and sharp. Given my listening taste I was adviced to look at the Infinity series and Illusion Audio Carbon series.
8. Rears - Not decided. Will retain exisitng one or drop it completely. Depends on budget.
9. Sub - Should not be soft/muddled, should not be BOOM BOOM. It should be tight. When then drums beat, you should feel that focussed punch in your gut and not have the whole car shiver. Again. i dont know the technical terms to say what i want, so bear with me. Here was adviced to try GZ or ID.
10. Amps - Originally thought of retaining the 75.4 but a good HU like that deservers better. Not sure whether to invest in a high end amp and compromise on HU or vice versa.
11. Damping - Since the Optra is a heavy vehicle.not sure if i will require a lot of this. What do you folks suggest.

Finally I dont want to end up with a ferrari engine in a Tata Indica or a Indica engine in a Ferrai. All the components of the ICE should compliment and match each other instead of giving the other an inferiority complex.

So am i asking for the impossible given my budget?

Thanks to Navin and Ajay for their inputs earlier. But given the complete picture now ,waiting for more inputs from them.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 17:49   #2
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9887 doesn't require a separate IMPRINT kit.
Eclipse 7200 MKII would be better as there is no need for keeping a separate bluetooth kit.
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Old 23rd June 2009, 18:28   #3
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So why did you buy the sony unit? lol.
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Old 24th June 2009, 02:33   #4
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HU - Eclipse CD7200 as you have mentioned

Fronts - Illusion Audio Carbon as you have mentioned

Rears - Not decided. Will retain exisitng one or drop it completely. Depends on budget. = Good Decision

Sub - Audition some before deciding.

Amps - I'll say a good 2/4 channel amp for front, maybe the Harman Kardon CA470 - Excellent Amp. and some 2 channel for sub.

Damping - Get the boot and front door damped at least.

Wiring etc extra.
Damn i know these stuff won't fit the budget.

Contact Bass&Trouble.
He can make a quote for you.
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Old 24th June 2009, 14:22   #5
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Thanks Abhinav. Well budget is a major constriant. Is there any other HU that would meet my requirements ? I am already in talks with Ajay. Hopefully he can work out something

Sam bhai.. by the time i finished talking to the "vendor". i was under the impression that Blaupunkt was out of business, Pioneer did not have BT and Sony which had trurned over a new leaf with respect to manufacturing quality was among the best. And ofcourse I always had the option to change the HU if I did not like it.

But when the time came to change, i was told that the warranty card was stamped and hence change was not possible.

Well thats cutting the long story short
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Old 6th June 2011, 12:04   #6
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Well here i am back again upgrading my ICE.. Well its 5 years since i got the Optra, after deciding a long time on whether to sell the car and go in for a new one or retain. I have decided to retain for another five years atleast. So first thing i did was get the a CNG kit installed and now she is currently undergoing a repaint and rust removal at Mkraft. Once that gets done, need to replace the original battery (served me well for 5 years and 50K, but has started showing signs of aging.). After that she will be handed over to Ajay for the long outstanding ICE upgrade...

So the planned upgrade under Ajay's guidance is as follows:
Front - Focal 165KR components
Rear - Nothing, but Ajay might use the exisitng JBL PS552 coax since there are 2 spare amp channels
Sub - Focal 33V2 - 4 Ohm DVC
Amps - Focal Solid 1 , Focal Solid 4
HU - Alpine 117 + KCE-400BT
Lots of damping (something Ajay will take care off)

Intially was planning with one Focal FPS 4164 (instead of 2 AMPS), but unfortunately the FPS 4164 cannot drive a 2Ohm load in bridged mode (for the sub). And getting 2 FPS amps (40K each) was just too expensive.

Regarding the HU I also considered the Kenwood X8016BT (Cost of 20K), but since it is supposed to be the rebranded X994, and the reviews of the X994 on the net are not very encouraging. So had to stick Alpine 117 + KCE 400BT even though the combination is 10K more expensive.

The only thing that has changed from my original listening choices is
3. Listening Source - 95% MP3 (320kbps mostly), 5% FM

So what say folks, how does it look like.. any suggestions.
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Old 6th June 2011, 12:36   #7
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
Sub - Focal 33V2 - 4 Ohm DVC
Who is making thebox for the 33V2?

It requires oodles of power (500W minimum) and a reasonably well built box to do it job well. Go for a box that is a bit on the big side (net volume about 1.5-1.8 cu. ft/ 40-50 liters) so that it has room to breathe.
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Old 6th June 2011, 12:50   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Who is making thebox for the 33V2?
Who else but Ajay's boys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
It requires oodles of power (500W minimum) and a reasonably well built box to do it job well. Go for a box that is a bit on the big side (net volume about 1.5-1.8 cu. ft/ 40-50 liters) so that it has room to breathe.

Emm.. but the 33V2 is rated at 400W RMS (200W per coil) ? and Focal Solid 1 can go upto 470W in 2 Ohm Bridged mode ?

Last edited by jinu_joseph : 6th June 2011 at 12:53.
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Old 6th June 2011, 12:57   #9
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
Emm.. but the 33V2 is rated at 400W RMS (200W per coil) ? and Focal Solid 1 can go upto 470W in 2 Ohm Bridged mode ?
1. Thermal ratings are not usually the limitation of subwoofers. What limits their performance (and the onset of distortions) is the controlled physical movement of the cone. Besides I think the coils are 400W each.

2. What is the dynamic headroom of the Focal 1 at full rated power? How much current can it dump? Woofers are inductive and hence diffcult loads for amplifiers hence amplifiers needs more muscle to drive subwoofers than other speakers.

However, since you have a good insaller I assume he/they would have considered these issues.
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Old 6th June 2011, 13:22   #10
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Quote:
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1. Thermal ratings are not usually the limitation of subwoofers. What limits their performance (and the onset of distortions) is the controlled physical movement of the cone. Besides I think the coils are 400W each..
The manual or Focal website does not mention if the nominal power rating is per coil or overall, but the crutchfield and the speedsound sites mentions it as per coil.

Focal Polyglass 33 V2 13" subwoofer with dual 4-ohm voice coils at Crutchfield Signature

Focal 33V2 - Polyglass 13" Subwoofer [Focal-33V2] - $399.95 : Speed & Sound Electronics Corp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
2. What is the dynamic headroom of the Focal 1 at full rated power? How much current can it dump? Woofers are inductive and hence diffcult loads for amplifiers hence amplifiers needs more muscle to drive subwoofers than other speakers.

However, since you have a good insaller I assume he/they would have considered these issues.
My guess here would be that since it has 2 X 25Amp fuses that would the max. it can pump (50Amps), but could not find any indication on the dynamic head room figures.

What amp do you recommend ?
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Old 6th June 2011, 13:50   #11
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
What amp do you recommend ?
I suspect the Focal 1 was recommended keeping your budget in mind. Other amps could have been the Kenwood X1, JBL 14001, JL XD 600, etc.. or the Focal FP series.
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Old 6th June 2011, 13:59   #12
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

Thanks Navin, but would it possible for you to recommend a 4 Channel amp that can be used for the Sub and Focal 165KR ? I tried searching but realised that most of the 4 Channel amps do not support a 2 Ohm load in bridged mode. Found a thread on a Mosconi AS 100.4, but not sure on official avialability in India.
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Old 6th June 2011, 15:43   #13
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The Mosconi has Steg pedigree and hence I am not surprised at it's ability. But it might be just as expensive as a Steg.
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Old 6th June 2011, 16:16   #14
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Default Re: Advice required on ICE Upgrade

It costs 41K just as much as a FPS 4164 (40K), but only not sure whether its officially avialable in India. I dont want to risk that much cash on something without a warranty. I saw it last here where it is shown for 41K:

Mosconi amplifiers | Motorheader

Any other suggestions ?
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Old 6th June 2011, 16:25   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu_joseph View Post
It costs 41K just as much as a FPS 4164 (40K), but only not sure whether its officially avialable in India.
Any other suggestions ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Other amps could have been the Kenwood X1, JBL 14001, JL XD 600, etc.. or the Focal FP series.
At 40K the Mosconi is about twice the price of the other amps mentioned in my most above and 3 times the price of the Focal Solid 1.
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