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Old 7th August 2009, 19:11   #16
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This is now turning me really mad.

With a budget of around 20 to 25 K for the HU, I realize that there are also Kenwood & Alpine headunits available.

I just finalized on the following few minutes back.

Pioneer AVH - P5150 ( 24 K)
Infinity Reference 6020cs ( Front)( 5 K)
JL Audio Component ( Front) ( 6K) Need advice JL or Infinity??
JBL GTO638 Co ax - Rear (2.2 K)
Polk Audio SUB - DVC ( 4.6K)
JBL 4 Channel Full range amp ( Already available)

Now I am again confused. Will the SQ be better if i think of Kenwood. I know a kenwood dealer who can provide original product at lower price.

Please can anyone help.
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Old 7th August 2009, 19:12   #17
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Depends on your listening preferences.
Some may like JL and some may like Infinity.
I haven't heard JL but infinity does make really good stuff
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Old 7th August 2009, 19:30   #18
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Originally Posted by vijay_n81 View Post
Guys,

Any idea about JL Audio, I heard that Bala from Chennai technocrats uses more of JL components in the front. is this better than infinity.

Your views please.

JL's are very nice and will take quite a lot more power than they are rated at, you will be very happy with them, I was ging in for JL's myself but stock wasn't available at the time.
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Old 8th August 2009, 11:31   #19
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Whether JL or Infinity, it is your ears (and what is in between) should decide. Ask for audition, and buy whichever you like.

Kenwood is a good choice, provided there is a model that has what you want. Anyhow, if one has a known reliable dealer, taking what you are actually getting is always better than forever comparing and waiting for something that is not readily available. At least you can start listening to music instead of perpetually waiting. And a known dealer is likely to help you out in times of trouble, instead of another who only sells cheaper and doesn't want to see your face after that.

Polk sub is good, and so is the JBL coax.
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Old 10th August 2009, 17:39   #20
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Thankyou all,I have now partly finalized on the ICE.JL XR650 CSI ( front components)Infinity / JBL Co-ax( Rear door, probably 6020)Polk Audio SR124 DVCJBL 4 Channel Full range amp.Rear Camera.Only decision pending is on the HU.Pioneer AVH-P5150 vs Kenwood KVT 532DVD.Any advice on the above. The Pio model is available at 24 K. Yet to have an update from the dealer on the price of Kenwood model
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Old 11th August 2009, 21:29   #21
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I Have got infinity 6020c for 4.5K anything more than this and you are contributing towards the dealers next vacation. By the way i am pretty happy with the sound quality of my speakers.

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Infinity speakers are definitely a good choice, but are you sure they come for 4.8K? Infinity Reference 6020c are usually 8-9K MRP, so just make sure you are not getting coaxes at that price. Components have separate tweeters and crossover box, coaxes have everything in one housing. Components give a better sound image. Check model numbers online to be sure before buying.

You can always keep a look out for a VFM center channel speaker. JVC has a center channel speaker for $120 or less in US - look under accessories in the JVC site.

Polk v/s JBL - not much to differentiate there other than price. JBL is a cheaper. A well-designed box gets good output from them, and it is always better to get a pre-finished one. Don't know if Polk has one (careful, don't take dealers-pre-finished ones with desi boxes), JBL definitely has a couple of them.

The JVC KD-AVX44 is a good choice.
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Old 13th August 2009, 16:19   #22
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Hello,

Any advice on -

Pioneer AVH-P5150 vs Kenwood KVT 532DVD

Which one is better and price please.

I am havent heard yet on this.

My Safari is ready at the dealership and am taking delivery on 17th , coming Monday.
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Old 19th August 2009, 18:43   #23
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Hello all,

At last I have taken delivery of my safari and have got the ICE fitted.

This is what I have in my Safari.

1. JVC - AVX-44
2. Hertz 51/4 Components ( front door)
3. Infinity Coax - ( Rear door)
4. Polk SUB with enclosure
5. JBL 4 Channel Full range Amp

The sound is very clear and the depth that comes out of the factory enclosure of POLK is extremenly good.

Thanks to all who had been part of the decision making with your valuable inputs.

I will post a few pics of the same shortly.
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Old 19th August 2009, 19:08   #24
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Hands on....Here is my 25 paise worth of advice....
Safari has bad accoustic properties...and I would suggest that you Do the damping first....and then budget your speakers...
Here is what i am planning
1)Already got damping done for Rs6.5 K using dynamat xtreme plus closed cell foam....The shop Galaxy in cochin was an importer for dynamat xtreme and hence cheap...Now it sounds ok even with stock speakers
2)Change front components to infinity Rs3.5 K(Price is national market bangalore) 4.5K in grey...(but take along somebody who can recognise whether they are originals)
3)JBL GTO A644 for Rs 5200(Grey national market bangalore)
Total price now = 6500+ 3500+ 5200= 15200
4)Now if you really wanna go for a sub right away and ok with entry level JBL sub=2K(National market bangalore)
5)total price is 17200 + 1500 for enclosure= 18700
6)Else wait and save some money and go for better sub later....
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Old 21st August 2009, 08:30   #25
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But if you can afford buy official products because these are smuggled products and as a Team-BHP ian would never endorse them personally.You will have better peace of mind also...
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Old 21st August 2009, 14:23   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freewheelburnin View Post
... Safari has bad accoustic properties...
2)Change front components to infinity ...
3)JBL GTO A644 ...
6)Else wait and save some money and go for better sub later....
Safari has better acoustic properties than most other cars. Cabin NVH is far better than most cars in that price bracket, and definitely better than anything below it. Rattles and buzzes are a matter of good maintenance.

There are other amps in that price / quality bracket - Blaupunkt, Kenwood, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc.

The last suggestion is a really wise one!
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Old 24th August 2009, 19:44   #27
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DerAlte, Acoustic properties are not better than any car but NVH is defintely better.NVH is because of better sound sealing/insulation.Rattles or buzzes are out of the picture here.I agree that N.V.H is better than say an Innova.But the doors and door pads in Safari are improperly designed .They have huge metal cavities which create resonance.I.M.H.O these should be damped well.Otherwise the bass frequencies will leak and you will lose the fullness of the music.Damping makes a noticeable difference.Today i checked out my colleague's Safari which has stock speakers too and mine sounded much better.Deralte which amp do you suggest?Even i am planning to upgrade....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Safari has better acoustic properties than most other cars. Cabin NVH is far better than most cars in that price bracket, and definitely better than anything below it. Rattles and buzzes are a matter of good maintenance.

There are other amps in that price / quality bracket - Blaupunkt, Kenwood, Panasonic, Pioneer, etc.
The last suggestion is a really wise one!

Last edited by freewheelburnin : 24th August 2009 at 19:50.
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Old 24th August 2009, 22:39   #28
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O @freewheelburnin bhaiya, you are trying to say too many things at the same time (I started panting just reading it ). Keep it simple, and the problems are not really problems - just perceptions.

1. Acoustic properties are just NVH - cavities, resonances etc. all inclusive.

2. Doors and door pads are rather VERY well designed, even for speaker considerations

3. The 'huge metal cavities' do not resonate, as you put it (Did you by any chance try saying 'hellllooooo' into it to check for echoes???). That volume is good enough that one can put an 8" mid-bass and give it enough air behind the cone for the bass notes to sound good

4. The outer metal skin of the door is already damped, but could do with a bit more. But this damping is to reduce resonance sympathetic to body and road vibrations. The inner metal skin does not participate in anything, and anyhow it is so broken up by holes that it wouldn't resonate at all

5. The FRP door pad is good enough for listening at normal volume. However, the energy lost to vibrations in its larger expanses need to be corrected if you enjoy it louder. A bit of damping helps here, either FG or damping sheet

6. "Otherwise the bass frequencies will leak and you will lose the fullness of the music" - you are neither the first one to say it, nor will you be the last. This is at best an artistic statement and has nothing to do with reality. Leak? From where? To where? What is 'leakage of frequencies'? I am sure you don't have the answers to these questions. Relax, all that is imaginary, baba

Amps: My preference would be, in order of preference, Blau / JBL, Panasonic, Kenwood, and Pioneer. There is very little to differentiate in the sound of these, so service availability is the key
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Old 25th August 2009, 08:56   #29
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DerAlte bhaiyya I was under the impression that NVH is related to engine sound and vibrations only.But i was wrong,just checked the definition

1)Any accoustic theory will finally boil down to what your ear perceives.A speaker is only as good as it sounds to you.
2)After damping i notice that bass is much improved even with stock speakers.How do you account that for?
3)If bass was not leaking or getting absorbed where was it getting lost earlier?
4)Resonation happens around a resonant frequency which need not be produced by saying hello! into the hollow cavity.
5)I have damped the outer skin only .
6)Dynamat cannot block external noise AFAIK because they are designed to act from one side that is convert sound energy falling on the metallic looking side into heat.Hence it cannot block road noise.For that closed cell foam helps.
7)Finally all that matters is how satisfied i am with the job done.It made considerable difference atleast to me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
O @freewheelburnin bhaiya, you are trying to say too many things at the same time (I started panting just reading it ). Keep it simple, and the problems are not really problems - just perceptions.

1. Acoustic properties are just NVH - cavities, resonances etc. all inclusive.

2. Doors and door pads are rather VERY well designed, even for speaker considerations

3. The 'huge metal cavities' do not resonate, as you put it (Did you by any chance try saying 'hellllooooo' into it to check for echoes???). That volume is good enough that one can put an 8" mid-bass and give it enough air behind the cone for the bass notes to sound good

4. The outer metal skin of the door is already damped, but could do with a bit more. But this damping is to reduce resonance sympathetic to body and road vibrations. The inner metal skin does not participate in anything, and anyhow it is so broken up by holes that it wouldn't resonate at all

5. The FRP door pad is good enough for listening at normal volume. However, the energy lost to vibrations in its larger expanses need to be corrected if you enjoy it louder. A bit of damping helps here, either FG or damping sheet

6. "Otherwise the bass frequencies will leak and you will lose the fullness of the music" - you are neither the first one to say it, nor will you be the last. This is at best an artistic statement and has nothing to do with reality. Leak? From where? To where? What is 'leakage of frequencies'? I am sure you don't have the answers to these questions. Relax, all that is imaginary, baba

Amps: My preference would be, in order of preference, Blau / JBL, Panasonic, Kenwood, and Pioneer. There is very little to differentiate in the sound of these, so service availability is the key
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Old 25th August 2009, 11:08   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freewheelburnin View Post
DerAlte bhaiyya I was under the impression that NVH is related to engine sound and vibrations only.But i was wrong,just checked the definition...
1. Correct, but you cannot recognize or discard the physics associated as and when convenient. One has to be consistent

2 & 3. Does it occur to you that before damping the road noise reaching your ears was almost as loud as the bass notes of the music? End effect? 'Bass is weak'. The damping reduced the loudness of the road noise, the bass notes in music became 'louder' *as compared to the road noise* and hence you are able to hear them better. You are not feeding more power to make it louder, NOR is anything getting lost because of 'leakage'! Strictly speaking some amount of anti-phase cancellation may occur between the music and the noise, but that is not enough to be isolated or perceived

4. The earliest perception of resonance was from saying 'Hello' (or some other sound articulated by humans) - where some fundamental or harmonic frequency produced resonance. The earliest forms of music, as also the experimentation by infants with sound, also stem from that. Echo is resonance where the whole original envelop is returned with some transmission loss. Simple resonance is in fact the basis of all musical instruments. Yes, of course, any enclosed space will have a fundamental resonance frequency. But, what has that got to do with music reproduction in a Tata Safari? This is where you are taking liberties with physics of sound without being scientific

5. Good

6. For 'blocking' you need comparatively a massive or a really stiff mass which cannot be moved by the energy of the sound intended to be blocked. Damping indirectly 'blocks' sound by dissipating (yes, into heat) much of the vibrations that occur perpendicular to the surface they are on. Now, isn't that 'blocking road noise'?
CC Foam is terribly inefficient if there is only one surface. It works well when sandwiched between surfaces. If there is only one surface the air in the cells cannot be compressed, and the material is so light that it moves along with the surface it is on. It works decently on the floor pan, but that is because one places a carpet on top of it.

7. That's the only thing that matters, and no one was questioning that!!! What was questioned was the logic that was presented with it.

Last edited by DerAlte : 25th August 2009 at 11:10.
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