Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 14th July 2009, 13:47   #46
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

doc.G
first of all on my dash its midrange .i have a midbass in doors.where the company provides stock speakers..
rear i have midranges again with the touch of sound it gives very warm touch to make sound more realastic..i mean natural again..as you say midbass in door and tweeter in door pad or c pillar.
as a thumb rule says tweeter has to mount with in 6 inches gap from midranges...
so i followed the same ..more over i have a very natural sound in my car as my deck defeat in on i dont use any signals from deck my bass is 0 treable is 0 and i have even turned my loud off as it distorts the sound and we have nice professional series amp we dont need to change settings from headunit .
i dont like personally decking up my setup ..i wanted natural ....
rohan1091 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 16:21   #47
Senior - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,876 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan1091 View Post
people are so inquistive to know me wow...
But you still haven't answered their questions either way, right? Very diplomatic!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan1091 View Post
so here i am finally posting my ice.
do give suggestions about my ice ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
... unconventional mounting ... This works OK for tweeters and high frequencies, but ... As of right now the imaging is abysmal.
In fact bouncing off the (F/R) windshield is *not* recommended for high frequencies (tweeter) since is causes smearing, making point sources (hf) appear bigger than they actually are. Navin would have a better explanation. For mids it is OK - Wagon-R, Indica et al have 4" mounting on the dash pointing at the windshield, and one gets a very good image.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
... Rear speakers - Again there is no imaging with this type of speaker mounting. ...
I agree, door or parcel tray mounting will produce a better image in the rear seat (perhaps @rohan wants to disregards that). Image is produced by wave interplay at the ears, something that is virtually impossible with this mounting arrangement, unless one sits on the dashboard facing rear!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
... I hope that every thing I said above even though it is only my opinion, is taken in the right spirit. Rohit the thing that really matters is that you're happy. ...
x2. Absolutely.

Last edited by DerAlte : 14th July 2009 at 16:25.
DerAlte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 17:19   #48
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

as till now i have heard plenty systems ..but i even enjoyed listening front with tweeters mounting in pillars .
as rear fill its just touch of warm sound............
i dont use tweeters for back so no point discussing imaging.
rohan1091 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 17:40   #49
BHPian
 
DocG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mumbai - Singapore - Cali - Sydney - S.Korea
Posts: 870
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan1091 View Post
doc.G
first of all on my dash its midrange .i have a midbass in doors.where the company provides stock speakers..
rear i have midranges again with the touch of sound it gives very warm touch to make sound more realastic..i mean natural again..as you say midbass in door and tweeter in door pad or c pillar.
as a thumb rule says tweeter has to mount with in 6 inches gap from midranges...
so i followed the same ..more over i have a very natural sound in my car as my deck defeat in on i dont use any signals from deck my bass is 0 treable is 0 and i have even turned my loud off as it distorts the sound and we have nice professional series amp we dont need to change settings from headunit .
i dont like personally decking up my setup ..i wanted natural ....
Rohan so you're running both 3 ways up front and rear? And that too two different brands? Now this is extremely interesting! I really HAVE to audition this car now. Also the manner in which you have replied to my previous post leads me to believe you are an installer or at least a dealer in audio of some sort.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
In fact bouncing off the (F/R) windshield is *not* recommended for high frequencies (tweeter) since is causes smearing, making point sources (hf) appear bigger than they actually are. Navin would have a better explanation. For mids it is OK - Wagon-R, Indica et al have 4" mounting on the dash pointing at the windshield, and one gets a very good image.
I agree, door or parcel tray mounting will produce a better image in the rear seat (perhaps @rohan wants to disregards that). Image is produced by wave interplay at the ears, something that is virtually impossible with this mounting arrangement, unless one sits on the dashboard facing rear!
Please explain the first point in bold in more detail. I have seen many higher end cars which use this location for a tweeter, including the stock tweets in an Accord, in which the stock system is relatively quite good in terms of sound stage.

The second point is absolutely true and precisely what I meant.

Personally, the way in which I would've gone about this would've been front kickpanel since your midrange looks quite big. I would've stuck the midbass in the door with the midrange and tweet in a kickpanel.

Rears I would've kept the midbass in the parcel tray and the midrange and tweet in pods on the C pillar, obviously with proper sound stage in mind. I just re-read your equipment list, and you only have the inphase midranges at the rear? Why?

My honest opinion about this install is that it is a good start with what seem to be quality products (Mmats I know and they are great, but the other lesser known components like inphase, juice and vibe need to prove themselves.)

I think that they need to be reinstalled with correct imaging in mind to really get a good sound stage throughout your car.

Either way, I appreciate your passion for ICE, and would LOVE to audition your car soon.
DocG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 17:41   #50
Senior - BHPian
 
Invinsible's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,257
Thanked: 60 Times
Default

Rohan that's a very clean install you have. Liked the finish on the rear pods and on sub box.
But I would have preferred you making those pods for the front mids on the A-pillar along with the tweets where the left and right mids and tweets would be facing eachother, something like shown in the pic. You are right, tweeter should be within 6" of the mids and that goes for the midbass as well where the mids should be 6" of the midbass. In your case mids are on the dash where waves will be reflected of the windscreen in a way making the mids little brighter. Am not sure what frequencies your mids and tweeters are playing. But putting the mids and tweeters on Apiller should surely make a difference where the sound waves from both are travelling in one direction and TA can be set considering the distance between 2 Apillars to the listening point.
For the rear as DerAlte mentioned having the rear fill in doors or parcel tray also works as you intend to use it as fillers.
I am using rear coax as fillers in the stock door location of my Fabia and it works great as I measured that the distance from my listening point to the left front midbass and to the rear left coax is almost the same. With added TA on them it works just perfect.

However, as long as you are enjoying the sound all this will be irrelevant. But, there's always a room for little improvement.

Quote:
DOCG@Personally, the way in which I would've gone about this would've been front kickpanel since your midrange looks quite big.
I too would prefer the kickpanel as the PLD is better off, but again having Kick panel in right end drive cars wouldn't be that convenient.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Invinsible : 14th July 2009 at 17:51.
Invinsible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 17:57   #51
Senior - BHPian
 
abhinav.gupta88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Delhi , India
Posts: 4,087
Thanked: 308 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
Rohan so you're running both 3 ways up front and rear? And that too two different brands? Now this is extremely interesting! I really HAVE to audition this car now. Also the manner in which you have replied to my previous post leads me to believe you are an installer or at least a dealer in audio of some sort.
Again a very general statement .
If the same was said by me, would you say the same.
Any one can say this kinda statement. (Anyone who has knowledge about ICE)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
Please explain the first point in bold in more detail. I have seen many higher end cars which use this location for a tweeter, including the stock tweets in an Accord, in which the stock system is relatively quite good in terms of sound stage.
Whenever It is mounted facing the window pane, then the frequencies would bounce back in a totally different direction disturbing the sound stage.

Gurus would know better.
abhinav.gupta88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 18:46   #52
BHPian
 
live2drive's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 525
Thanked: 25 Times
Default

You cut through the dash to install mid range?

Anyways, enjoy your setup man!
live2drive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 19:30   #53
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

yes i wanted to have front stage ...so i had no option
rohan1091 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 20:11   #54
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Note from Mod : Please take the effort to proof-read your message prior to submitting. Also, avoid using SMS language / short forms.

docg.
i am having 3 ways setup only for front.
rearfill i am using only midranges with -3db xo passive.
yes you can audition my car .
i am not an installer or dealer me just car audio enthu.
yes in many cars ther is a tweeter in factory locations as panels /doors/pillars..
ther are two types of stages one is upper stage and another is midstage.as company fitted setups are good for jazz listener /love songs /ghazals.now this is upper stage ..
as i am the HOUSE MUSIC lover so i want loud live midstage on dash .u cannot get live sound from factory fitted setups no matter wat ever brand we install.. as i have done a lot of experiments on front stages.so i installed midranges on dashboard to get midstage sound.
rear sound i just wanted the warm touch of music just a bit raw.if i would have installed 3way components in rear i would have not enjoyed the front wat i am enjoying now .again its personal taste...
MMATS is a good company very profesional in terms of sql ...
vibe inphase juice hope for the best.
i use the best products which my ears decide .my choice is lil different from others.

Last edited by GTO : 15th July 2009 at 13:13.
rohan1091 is offline   Reply With Quote Received Infraction
Old 14th July 2009, 20:19   #55
BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mumbai
Posts: 25
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

INVISIBLERohan that's a very clean install you have. Liked the finish on the rear pods and on sub box.
But I would have preferred you making those pods for the front mids on the A-pillar along with the tweets where the left and right mids and tweets would be facing eachother, something like shown in the pic. You are right, tweeter should be within 6" of the mids and that goes for the midbass as well where the mids should be 6" of the midbass. In your case mids are on the dash where waves will be reflected of the windscreen in a way making the mids little brighter. Am not sure what frequencies your mids and tweeters are playing. But putting the mids and tweeters on Apiller should surely make a difference where the sound waves from both are travelling in one direction and TA can be set considering the distance between 2 Apillars to the listening point.
For the rear as DerAlte mentioned having the rear fill in doors or parcel tray also works as you intend to use it as fillers.
I am using rear coax as fillers in the stock door location of my Fabia and it works great as I measured that the distance from my listening point to the left front midbass and to the rear left coax is almost the same. With added TA on them it works just perfect.

However, as long as you are enjoying the sound all this will be irrelevant. But, there's always a room for little improvement.
as i said earlier in thread i am the lover of sound not looks ..i have done a lot of experiment on frontstages but i enjoyed the dashboard fitment....
my midbass has got seperate xo so i tuned as it will not mix match with the setup
midranges and tweeters are in seperate xo for fine tunnings.
yes i even agrees with your suggestion but again persoanl taste.
rohan1091 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 20:45   #56
BHPian
 
DocG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Mumbai - Singapore - Cali - Sydney - S.Korea
Posts: 870
Thanked: 6 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Again a very general statement .
If the same was said by me, would you say the same.
Any one can say this kinda statement. (Anyone who has knowledge about ICE)

Whenever It is mounted facing the window pane, then the frequencies would bounce back in a totally different direction disturbing the sound stage.
Abhinav what I said about him sounding like an installer, well he seemed to be talking about installing his system in the first person, which leads me to believe that he himself was the installer. It could have been DIY, or even a professional install with rohan being highly involved. Either way I just want to get this doubt cleared (It would then affect my responses, as I would never want to start a fight) (Also Abhinav, you are not new to TBhp)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan1091 View Post
yes i wanted to have front stage ...so i had no option
Rohan there are other options, like I mentioned for the size of your midranges (From the pics they look like 4in mids) I'd have opted for kickpanels. And there are ways to make kickpanels more friendly for RHDs.

Custom door pads with locations for all 3 speakers.

Pods of dash mounting.

Also one can opt to install the mids underdash which requires little to no cutting.

Just saying that there are more creative options out there. I've only listed 4 of the plethora more out there.

Last edited by Technocrat : 16th July 2009 at 11:50. Reason: fixed quote
DocG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 21:22   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
abhinav.gupta88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Delhi , India
Posts: 4,087
Thanked: 308 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Again a very general statement .
If the same was said by me, would you say the same.
Any one can say this kinda statement. (Anyone who has knowledge about ICE)

Whenever It is mounted facing the window pane, then the frequencies would bounce back in a totally different direction disturbing the sound stage.
Abhinav what I said about him sounding like an installer, well he seemed to be talking about installing his system in the first person, which leads me to believe that he himself was the installer. It could have been DIY, or even a professional install with rohan being highly involved. Either way I just want to get this doubt cleared (It would then affect my responses, as I would never want to start a fight) (Also Abhinav, you are not new to TBhp)
True. I too would want to clear that claim. Me New?? I'm a senior Bhp-ian Sir, not Age wise though .
Rohan. Please clarify? Waiting for rest pics.
Of the mid basses, the rca also.

Last edited by abhinav.gupta88 : 14th July 2009 at 21:24.
abhinav.gupta88 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 14th July 2009, 22:56   #58
BHPian
 
stefanm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Goa
Posts: 212
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

Interesting set up, i'm intrigued by mounting midrange on the dash, seems that would mess up the stereo imaging and separation, please elaborate.

Nicely installed, though not to my taste, still it's your hard earned money, so you makes your choice.

Enjoy
stefanm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2009, 12:36   #59
Senior - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,876 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
... I have seen many higher end cars which use this location for a tweeter, including the stock tweets in an Accord, in which the stock system is relatively quite good in terms of sound stage. ...
Sorry, Doc, didn't understand your expression. Did you mean to say in an Accord the tweeter is horizontal on/in the dashboard firing up at the windshield?
DerAlte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th July 2009, 23:11   #60
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,501
Thanked: 3,879 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Navin would have a better explanation. For mids it is OK - Wagon-R, Indica et al have 4" mounting on the dash pointing at the windshield, and one gets a very good image.
higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) are more prone to the effects of smearing. Why, well I can only assume that when the sound is smeared, the effect really is like having the same sound emanate from many different locations along the windshield. This means that when the distance between two such locations exceeds the wavelength there will be comb filtering. Comb filtering is very noticeable when the speaker is close to the listener (like in a car or in a home) instead far from the listener (like in a rock concert or music hall).

In addition to this simple comb filtering effect what you are also hearing is a phase difference because the reflected sound is not in the same alignment as the direct sound.

One car company has managed to get around this by using a wave guide (made by B&O). However the waveguide itself poses it own problems but that is a story for another time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I have seen many higher end cars which use this location for a tweeter, including the stock tweets in an Accord, in which the stock system is relatively quite good in terms of sound stage.
car manufacturers are not in the business of selling audiophile grade audio systems. In most cases the speaker locations are not fully thought through. Why else do we have (in many cases) the midbass firing at our knees and the tweeter a good 30-40 cm from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rohan1091 View Post
You are right, tweeter should be within 6" of the mids and that goes for the midbass as well where the mids should be 6" of the midbass.
6" (15cm) is c-c distance. that means from the center of one driver to the cente rof the other driver. This means that in all probablity the 2 drivers have to have their outer frames touching each other. Sorry.
navin is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bought an Alpine m500 and Type R sub, need advice on an all Alpine SQL setup. Astleviz In-Car Entertainment 1 23rd October 2010 23:46
New Verna Sooner than you Expect: Launched as Verna Transform drchernish The Indian Car Scene 181 22nd July 2010 09:34
SQL setup for Maruti 800 Bumble Beast In-Car Entertainment 2 11th March 2010 17:54
goin by the xmax is it possible to identify tonal quality,sq,sql spl of the subwoofer zucchero In-Car Entertainment 41 17th August 2007 17:51
ICE setup for verna zenopio In-Car Entertainment 3 20th March 2007 12:29


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:32.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks