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Old 15th July 2009, 10:24   #16
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Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
i have noticed that in this forum many people are moving away from the 9887 but if used correctly it can be as good as any other headunit, if i do decide to change the headunit though i would use the factory headunit of the vehicle with an audison bit one as the interface since that allows for a 4 way crossover and it has 32 bands of EQ per channel as opposed to the alpines 7 bands only
Sorry for the late quote.

How would the 32 band of EQ help you.
Will you not keep all settings to flat and fiddle with the amp and the position of the tweeters etc to fine-tune the setup?
Or would you be doing some playing around with the EQ also?
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Old 15th July 2009, 18:31   #17
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Sorry for the late quote.

How would the 32 band of EQ help you.
Will you not keep all settings to flat and fiddle with the amp and the position of the tweeters etc to fine-tune the setup?
Or would you be doing some playing around with the EQ also?
yes the idea is to fine tune by playing around with positioning of the speakers and fiddling with amp levels etc but then after using an RTA to check the frequency response the idea is to compensate for problems using the EQ. Now with a 7 band EQ the odds can be that the band where the problem frequency is present in might not be available whereas with a 32 band it is more likely that the frequency might be available to you

so after all your other measures you still want to have some form of EQ to adjust for a close to perfect as possible frequency response (absolute perfection is impossible withn a car due to reflections and imperfect speaker positions available to you

as an example when i had the MB Quart speakers, even though i kept the tweeters off axis and also used the passives to drop the tweeter down to -6db the speakers still exhibited a huge peak at around 6khz (probably why people considered them bright) which i dropped using my phoenix gold EQ. This made the speakers sound very much better and actually they then were amongst the best car speakers ive heard, so its not a matter of adjusting all 32 bands on the EQ its a matter of having more potential problem areas covered and adjusting only the problem areas to acheive the aim of a fairly linear frequency response
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Old 15th July 2009, 21:52   #18
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Why not use the Alpine 9887 all the while and whenever you want to check about the frequencies, shift to using the Audison Bit one?
Would the Audison bit one be better than an Alpine 9887 with an imprint maybe.
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Old 15th July 2009, 22:42   #19
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Would the Audison bit one be better than an Alpine 9887 with an imprint maybe.
The Audison Bit one retails for about $1000. It does a lot of things automatically (including many bands of EQ) but does not offer the degree of control Alpine 9887+Imprint does. Naughty is planning to EQ to taste. The Audisoon bit one automatic feature will EQ to what Audison believes is correct. This definition of 'correct' (sometimes called 'flat') might not be the same definition that Naughty has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naughty001 View Post
yes the idea is to fine tune by playing around with positioning of the speakers and fiddling with amp levels etc but then after using an RTA to check the frequency response the idea is to compensate for problems using the EQ. Now with a 7 band EQ the odds can be that the band where the problem frequency is present in might not be available whereas with a 32 band it is more likely that the frequency might be available to you

as an example when i had the MB Quart speakers, even though i kept the tweeters off axis and also used the passives to drop the tweeter down to -6db the speakers still exhibited a huge peak at around 6khz (probably why people considered them bright) which i dropped using my phoenix gold EQ. This made the speakers sound very much better and actually they then were amongst the best car speakers ive heard, so its not a matter of adjusting all 32 bands on the EQ its a matter of having more potential problem areas covered and adjusting only the problem areas to acheive the aim of a fairly linear frequency response
Naughty what you really need is a few bands of parametric EQ where you can adjust not only the amplitude but also the Q. Parametrics have 5-7 'bands'. The Center freq of the EQ for each band can be adjusted as can be the amplitude (which is what all EQs do) and the Q (or bandwidth). Alpine and Pio HUs offer a few bands of parametric EQ but the control over the bandwidth is limited (Alpine for example has a Q of 1, 1.5, 2 and 3 I think).

Unfortunately the Tilt control that Quad used to use in it's 34 preamp is not available for car audio.

Naughty you ought to note that even with high Q 32-33 band EQs (aka Rane) boosting one frequency will affect neighbouring frequencies hence boosting say 25Hz and 32Hz might lead to too much boost centered at say 28Hz. This is only precautionary. Since you are tailoring your sound to taste and are trusting your ears you should be ok.
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Old 15th July 2009, 23:18   #20
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Is it not possible to use both the Alpine 9887 and the Audison Bit One.
Would give the best of both the worlds. In my eclipse, there is a 7 band eq whose frequencies can be changed.
I will confirm what all frequencies the HU is able to play around with.
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Old 16th July 2009, 00:24   #21
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The Audison Bit one retails for about $1000
Navinji, Audison has to actually sell 40000 units of the bit one just to break even (or so they say) hence it might be pricey in the US but here in South Africa it retails at R7000 which is closer to around $600 (US) but i can get it at wholesale pricing which is a bit lower than that

Quote:
This definition of 'correct' (sometimes called 'flat') might not be the same definition that Naughty has.
agreed, but i will be checking for linearity ("flatness") with an RTA (real time analyser) so it wont all be only according to ear and taste but i do agree 100% with whatever you say about EQ's and parametrics as well

Quote:
Is it not possible to use both the Alpine 9887 and the Audison Bit One.
it is but then most of the processing capability of the alpine would then be wasted - but it does give the possibility of using the imprint and getting a setting that you could retailor with the bit one, so its an intriguing prospect and may be something to consider

but another option to consider is to change the alpine to a pioneer P99RS when it does become available since that has most of the capability of the bit one built into the headunit itself

hmmmm .... decisions, decisions
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Old 16th July 2009, 12:35   #22
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Thanks naughty for all the info. JBL Gti is indeed an impressive product.

Anyways speaking about EQ i was wondering whether AudioControl DQX or DQXS qualify to your needs ? It is one of the versatile EQ available in the market.
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Old 16th July 2009, 18:22   #23
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Thanks naughty for all the info. JBL Gti is indeed an impressive product.

Anyways speaking about EQ i was wondering whether AudioControl DQX or DQXS qualify to your needs ? It is one of the versatile EQ available in the market.
you should though keep in mind that whatever ive stated about the morel is purely my opinion and despite me not liking the sub so much i love the supremo set of components and would rate those 10/10 since ive heard those in two different cars and both those sounded superb, so its only the sub that didnt perform for me and Morel does make superb speakers most of the time, and to be fair as ive stated it might have been the sub-par enclosure that the speaker did not like

about the audiocontrol stuff it would work indeed but it just isnt as flexible as the Bit One or even the rockford 360.2 in terms of flexibility and features for my purposes, but yes audiocontrol is not bad since ive always wanted a set of those old analog EQT's, but as those were discontinued ages ago they would now be a collectors piece but yes im sure a DQX or DQXS could work for bits of what im planning. Thanks for pointing those out, and i will check up on pricing on those units here in SA
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Old 17th July 2009, 01:44   #24
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I Know what you mean, each one of us has it's own taste and preferences. But, something tells me Jbl Gti have an upper edge against the Morel Ultimo mainly due to their Differential Drive Design. Also, they have better efficiency. Have read only good about them. I feel the only drawback is their mounting Depth. Would like to hear these some day.

Reg the Morel I completely agree with you. Morels does indeed have the warm and sweet sound to them as they say. The Midbass and the mids are on the warmer side, where as the tweeter are sweet. Not harsh, sharp at all and blends very well with the midbass. I specially liked their off-axis response, one of the best. I upgraded my Dotech Ovation to Hybrid Ovation sometime back. And really like the smooth roll off and openness from the midbass. Next, I plan to upgrade the tweeters' MT-22 to the Piccolos retaining the midbass.

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Old 18th July 2009, 07:29   #25
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okay, serious planning commencing. I opened up the door cards to do some measurements and also see the feasibility of fabricating door pods for those 8" woofers in the doors

doorcards on dining table for measurements

Hi from South Africa-doorcard.jpg

grilles removed from doorcards

Hi from South Africa-grille.jpg

the door skins, these will be definitely covered with some form of sound deadening when im ready

Hi from South Africa-doorskin.jpg

the stock speakerholes

Hi from South Africa-speakerhole.jpg

my main problem is that i cant see a way of doing it without making those stock speakerholes a bit bigger because if i dont sink the speaker magnet a bit into the door then its going to stick out to much and id need to make a posd on the door card thats around 4 inches long (around 10 cm's) and unfortunately with the plan that i have this means that gravity will have too much of an opppurtunity to pull the speaker pods downward hence id need to really fabricate something strong hence adding too much weight to the doors

the problem with cutting the hole bigger is that on one side its close to the edge of the door and on the other side the edge of the hole lines up with the channeling for the electric windows. Now this will mean that even if i remove that aluminum panel then i will not be able to go as deep into that hole since the electric window channels will definitely be in the way

so its seeming like the trouble of going up to the 8" woofer is a bit more hectic than i had originally planned for this particular vehicle. I refuse to do it the easy way which is to just build a baffle on the door card and mount it on that since it then means that the waves from the rear will be able to escape from the edges of the door cards and create lower frequency cancellation with the front waves. So the main thing im now considering is to just buy a pair of the 6" dynaudio esotec midbasses and keep the 8" woofers aside and use the set as a system 342

i have been presented with another option, which is to return the speaker set and sell my amp and that JL sub and add that funds to the amount of credit the speaker set gives me as well as add a little bit more and take a set of Esotar mid and tweeters (it doesnt come with a set of crossovers). thi smeans all i will have for now is the front speakers and headunit which also delays my install plans a lot more since id need new amps but this also gives me the opportunity to maybe change the brand of amps to something a bit more audiophile and the subs im planning are now the Resonant Engineering REx series which are entry level but they will play the low bass well enough for my purposes, In the long term this will mean it all takes a lot longer but i will eventually finish off with a world class system (and not have to do so much of cutting of the doors and door cards hence losing a large amount on the resale value of the vehicle). also the dynaudio 650's will probably allow fabrication of a kick panel pod instead of maybe using the doors for the mids and this will allow for better pathlength differences as well which will probably improve stereo imaging

what the kick panels look like

passengers side

Hi from South Africa-passengerkp.jpg

drivers side

Hi from South Africa-driverskp.jpg

please excuse the car for being as dirty as it is, it isnt normally like this and only gets dirty when im working on it, so WIP progress pics will always show the car as being dirty when in reality it is normally vacuumed and kept shiny most of the time
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Old 18th July 2009, 11:08   #26
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Wow.
Esotars + SQ amp + RE. That'll be a really very sweet combo.

Purchased the 9887 already or waiting for P99?
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Old 18th July 2009, 11:38   #27
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Wow.
Esotars + SQ amp + RE. That'll be a really very sweet combo.

Purchased the 9887 already or waiting for P99?
ive had the 9887 for around three months already, its working with the rear fill speakers at the moment powered from the headunit, its the only sound thats actually working in the car at the moment. The P99RS is probably going to be really expensive so its probably going to be a very long term thing ie if i do get it it will probably be around next year this time, especially now that im thinking of the expensive speakers and i will still need to get some amps

the SPL Dynamics amp is also in the car but it was used for a total of three days - so im trying to see if i can sell it for what i paid for it - but im sure i will lose a small bit there but if i land up with the Esotars at the end of it im sure i can live with the losses. I've also got the sub sold and ive made back what ive paid for it so for that im happy enough

If i do find a buyer for the amp i think im on course for those esotars, i think that in the long run that would definitely make for a better system even if i use temporary amps for a short while until i can afford what i really want. The RE subs are not very expensive because as ive stated i will get the entry level versions which still have very impressive specs for their price
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Old 21st July 2009, 10:05   #28
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Decided on something.
Esotars would give you goosebumps in the stomach.
Go for them
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Old 5th August 2009, 00:57   #29
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Decided on something.
Esotars would give you goosebumps in the stomach.
Go for them
i would love to take the esotars, and build upon that, but unfortunately im not able to sell my amp at the price im after. So what ive decided to do for now is return the system 362 so i dont have to mess around with the door cards and door skin too much. in its place ive swopped for another system 242 for temporary. When i say temporary i mean that i will use these speakers for about 6 months or so and then in save up for a set of Esotars in that 6 months

so my final system is being delayed by a huge amount of time now. besides for that System 242 to replace the system 362 i have also ordered a pair of 10" Resonant engineering REx10 subwoofers and an amp to run them. The 6 channel that i have now i will use for the system 242 full active so i will have 220 watts x 2 bridged from the 75 x 4 and i will use that on the MW162's and i will use the remaining 200 watts x 2 on the MD102 tweeters. The subs are 4 ohm dual voice coil hence in parrallel wil present a 2 ohm load to the amplifier, so i plan to use a SPL Dynamics S-4002 to give each sub 300 watts

in 6 months time i will replace only the speakers ie the RE subs will get replaced by something higher up in the RE range maybe a pair of the SEx series 10" subs in the same enclosures that im going to build now for the ones im getting now (the both sets of subs have the same size of enclosure reccommended) and obviously that system 242 will get replaced with esotars

as im going on and the Pioneer P99RS is available here i will replace my 9887 with one of those, so sadly it seems im still not anywhere close to my final system. I wish i had the spare cash to just finish the system up right now but sadly i dont have the ready cash to do this hence its still going to be a step by step setup but this one i will carry over to any new car i buy so its still going to be worth purchasing high end equipment
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Old 5th August 2009, 01:27   #30
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What are the specs of your 6 channel amp?

75x 4 at 4ohms and 200 x 2 at 4ohms /
110 x 4 at 2 ohms and 200 x 2 at 4 ohms and
220 x 2 at 4 ohms and 200 x 2 at 4 ohms

Am i correct?
If yes, why not add a mid range. Give the tweeters and the mid range 75w and the midwoofer - 200w
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