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Old 13th July 2009, 01:53   #1
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Default Hi from South Africa

hello people, just wanted to introduce myself to the Ice section and so as to not repeat too much heres my introduction thread. This will give you an idea of my car and the ICE setup i started with

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/introd...th-africa.html (Hello from South Africa)

in the intro thread i still didnt detail all my ICE as it was when i purchased the vehicle - basically the system started off as follows

1) Alpine 9827 headunit
2) JBL 755.6mkII amplifier
3) MB Quart reference series components
4) JBL 1502D subwoofer

the install was done by a buddy and myself, since i wasnt familiar with how the car opened up - my previous installs i had done mostly myself since i knew the car well, but for this one i was forced to get some help

heres a picture of some of the build up process and some parts that were covered with vinyl, in my new install anything being covered will get done by a pro upholsterer in identical leather as the seats

the subwoofer enclosure built out of MDF - totally custom built to fit within beauty panels

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the side panels and amp rack a bit closer

Hi from South Africa-box12.jpg

all the covered parts laying on the table prior to fitment

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the amp rack which fitted behind the seats to display the amp when you drop the seats

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fused distribution blocks and 4 gauge cable - some of that stuff wasnt connected to anything and was just for show - only some of that really was wire running to the amplifier - the bits that were not connected obviously were not fused as that could easily have caused some short circuits somwhere

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MB Quart reference midrange attached to front door on MDF spacers

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my problem is that i get bored very quickly and hence i always look for projects to do, hence this ICE setup did not last long. I replaced the front speakers with a set of the top of the range MB Quart QSD216 components and the amp was replaced with a Phoenix Gold xenon x200.4. Many people accuse the Quarts of being bright but if installed correctly and tuned properly ( i ran the tweeters on -6db at the passive crossover) i managed to tame the brightness and sibilance of the MB Quarts and they soon proved that they were exceptional speakers for the amounts of money i spent then i experimented a lot more by adding a Phoenix gold xenon x1200.1 amplifier with a morel ultimo subwoofer (very expensive) but i didnt really like how this sounded so i tried some JL audio 10w3v2 subwoofers as well as installing a Phoenix Gold EQ230 (very old school analog 30 band EQ) - eventually took the JL subs out and tried out a JBL W15 GTI - the problem with this sub is that no matter how excellent it sounded it was just too heavy for my vehicle

By this stage i was also getting a good price for selling the MB Quart components and i replaced those with a Dynaudio system 242, since the sub was too heavy i decided to get rid of that as well and start collecting the equipment for a totally new system - heres some pics of these intermediate steps that i made

the JL audio subs

Hi from South Africa-dsc00151a.jpg

in between all of the aove i also replaced the headunit with a kenwood KCD01

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morel ultimo in a temporary enclosure

Hi from South Africa-ultimo3.jpg

xenon x200.4 amp with Quart passives

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xenon x1200.1 monoblock with Phoenix Gold EQ230

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JBL W15GTI subwoofer - basket

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dynaudio system 242 - arrived

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okay - so you get the picture - i was changing equipment like it was going out of fashion - this was all over the last two years that ive had the vehicle - so in the end i took it all out and started buying stuff for what i call the final setup (famous last words)

the stuff that i now have to install into the vehicle is as follows

1) Alpine 9887 headunit
2) SPL Dynamics S7006 (SQ series) amplifier

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3) JL Audio 10 w3v3 subwoofer (it needs a really small enclosure)

Hi from South Africa-jlsub.jpg

4) streetwires interconnects

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5) 50 metres of audioquest 14 gauge speaker cable since im going to be running three way front stage active

Hi from South Africa-cable.jpg

6) Dynaudio system 362 - 3 way components

Hi from South Africa-packaging.jpg

mmmmmmboooyy ......speakers

Hi from South Africa-mtp.jpg

MW172 8" midbass drivers

Hi from South Africa-midbassrear.jpg

okay, ive reached the 20 picture limit for this post, so more pictures later. I have not started the Install yet since its going to be something special and im really going to row the boat far and wide on this one. The main problem is going to be fitting those midbass drivers in the doors and then getting those mids and tweeters into the A pilars so its going to take lots of fibreglass fabrication

i will update as i go along for the interested parties but please note that this is going to be a really long process since i still need to buy more equipment as well as proper sound deadening. More equipment is because the system is going to be run full active so i will be needing some more amplifiers and i still want to buy some tools as i go along, im going to mainly need a router and a new jigsaw in order to fabricate the speaker rings etc as precisely as i wish to for this project

the system is in a real transitional state right now and all ive got working is the head unit and my rear fill speakers powered from the rear channels of the headunits built in amplifiers - so hopefully this thread will become a kind of a build log as i do the work but as i have stated the work will take very long since im waiting for equipment and the state of my finances does not allow me to work as fast as i would have liked
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Old 13th July 2009, 10:21   #2
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How on earth do you plan to fit the MW172 into the doors?

Any reason to switch the Kenwood CD01 to the 9887?
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Old 13th July 2009, 10:30   #3
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Wow.
Really enjoyed reading the whole.
Will be following this thread closely.
Dyn 3 ways.
Any plans to go 3 way active.
If yes what amp would you be using for your subs?

Have you purchased all the stuff.
If not why not some other subs?
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Old 13th July 2009, 12:23   #4
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WOW, good choice of equipment there will keep a close watch on this thread.

As naveen asked why 9887 ?.
Abhinav yes he is going 3 way active he did mentioned this on his post and as for the sub i am also confused but are you talking about JL of JBL .
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Old 13th July 2009, 14:53   #5
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Mama mia, this is one install that I wanna watch. Bythe way why move to the 9887??
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Old 13th July 2009, 18:29   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
How on earth do you plan to fit the MW172 into the doors?

Any reason to switch the Kenwood CD01 to the 9887?
HI Navinji - the MW172 will need lots of work but i plan to use lots of spacers to construct a sort of a tunnel, the door cards will be actually rebuilt out of fibreglass so that the shape of them will accept this construction. The only real problem i have in terms of the doors is that the electric window channels prevent me from making the speaker holes on the door skin any bigger, so if the MW172's become a really difficult proposition it wont be a problem to just buy a set of MW162 raw drivers and convert this into a system 342 set

since a few people have asked about the change from the kenwood to the 9887, the kenwood was a great sounding unit but it plays only CD's and it was a very clinical sounding unit when it came to music that was recorded anything less than perfect. The alpine is definitely more forgiving and since my collection of MP3's is a vast amount of music converted from vinyl records this makes a huge difference. Also the Alpine has lots of processing which the kenwood doesnt have for example when i go fully active the crossover on the alpine will work perfectly as will the time alignment if required to compensate for any poor speaker positioning (kick panel positioning is definitely better for pathlength differences but im forced to use the A-pillars for practical considerations since this vehicle is a daily driver) and also the 7 bands of EQ will also be adequate since i didnt have too many response anomalies when i was using the system 242 in the setup

i have noticed that in this forum many people are moving away from the 9887 but if used correctly it can be as good as any other headunit, if i do decide to change the headunit though i would use the factory headunit of the vehicle with an audison bit one as the interface since that allows for a 4 way crossover and it has 32 bands of EQ per channel as opposed to the alpines 7 bands only

Quote:
Any plans to go 3 way active.
If yes what amp would you be using for your subs?
yes i do plan to go active, there are two methods i could employ for this aim one of which is to use the 6 channel amplifier for the front stage which will give the Dynaudio set the following power :

75 watts apiece to the MD102's
75 watts apiece to the MD142's
200 watts apiece to the MW172's

which then means as you have surmised that i would need an amplifier to the subwoofer so toward this end i will use an SPL Dynamics S4002 which will give the subwoofer 600 watts RMS (in bridged mode)

the second method i could employ is to get two of those SPL dynamics S4002 amplifiers the reason for this is as follows, the MD102's and MD142's are 8 ohm speakers hence will drop the power that the amplifier puts out so a lot of headroom will be required

so then the subwoofer channels of the headunit will be connected to the 6 channel amplifier with the 2 x 200 watts giving 600 watts tot he subwoofer - this will be lowpassed from 50hz down

then the remaining 4 x 75 watt channels will be bridged into 220 watts x 2 to run the MW17's - this will be connected to the front rca's of the headunit and bandpassed between 50 and 800hz

then the rear channels of the headunit will be connected to the first S-4002 amplifier and this will be highpassed at 800hz at the headunit then the built in crossover of the amplifier will be utilised to low pass this at 4000hz and this amplifier will run the MD142 midranges. Then the S-4002 has a pre-amp out which will be connected to the input of the second S-4002, this will be passing on the exact same signal that it recieves ie its higpassed from 800hz upward which doesnt really matter much because all i need from it now is 4000hz upward for the tweeters and the built in crossover on the amplifier will allow this to be crossed over at that point (the slopes on the amplifiers built in crossovers are selectable at 12db/oct or 24db/oct)

Quote:
Have you purchased all the stuff.
i still need the additional amps, i only have the 6 channel at the moment. i would have loved to use TRU or Genesis amps but those are not easily available here in South Africa at all and Audison costs around three times more on the average as compared to the SPL Dynamics amplifiers, the only weak point (if i can call it that) of the setup will be the amplifiers but those are adequate and in fact the mix of features and power works out perfectly to my advantage for the moment

i also need to purchase the sound deadening, we get Dynamat as well as B-Quite as well as damplifier pro amongst all the locally manufactured products - so i still need to decide and purchase some form of deadening materials but as ive said finances are the reason why this will be a slow moving project since i still have to pay for additional amplifiers as well as fibreglass and MDF and i still need some tools too so i will be doing some work but as ive stated earlier it wont be the fastest ive ever worked on a system

Quote:
and as for the sub i am also confused
what confuses you about the sub choice ? the JBL W15GTI was one of the most musical subs ive ever come accross for the purposes of SQ remembering that i play my sub not very loud but more or less to a linear frequency response so that the low bass is not much louder than the rest of the frequency range. The problem with it was that it was too heavy so i got the JL audio 10w3v3 which is actually a step down from the JBL IMHO but it works in a very small enclosure so it will do the job of working from 50hz downward albeit i will need to make the enclosure a bit larger to get the response flat below 40hz, but this will still be much lighter than the JBL which weighs 20 kilo's on its own as a raw driver and was around 30 kilo's when placed in the enclosure. this actually created a problem in the balance of the weight distribution in the vehicle since even three people placed in the centre of the car didnt cause the car to get sluggish since their weight is added in the centre - but adding the sub and the amplifiers as well as all the wood added around 80 kilo's in the back of the vehicle and this caused the back to sag a bit so whenever i tried to drive a bit spiritedly it meant lots of wheelspin on the front wheels since the back was correspondingly heavier which made the car actually sluggish as well under normal driving

so for the moment the sub is the JL audio 10w3v3 but i do have it up for sale in a local forum, if it does sell the im considering a pair of resonant engineering RE10's since those only require an enclosure between 0,3 and 0,5 cubic foot each which is tiny in comparison and a pair of subs will definitely give a bit more output than one coupled to the fact that the RE subs are also very musical too might just be a better bet. I would love to use a JBL W10GTI but those are very expensive here but i will see in the coming months if i can afford it BTW if anyone is concerned about JBL as being percieved a more midlevel or low end brand of equipment then you havent listened to the JBL 660GTI component set (the one with the waveguides) and the GTI series of subs - thats what gary biggs used to win three of his seven IASCA world titles and its all excellent stuff and can stand neck and neck with almost any other high end equipment, but i dont want to argue the point id rather steer away from brand controversies and politics hence we can leave whatever ive said above as my own personal opinion

Last edited by naughty001 : 13th July 2009 at 18:39. Reason: correcting spelling errors
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Old 13th July 2009, 19:41   #7
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Yes Indeed.
I was thinking why the shift from JBL to JL.
JBL Gti are simply amazing subs.
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Old 13th July 2009, 19:50   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Yes Indeed.
I was thinking why the shift from JBL to JL.
JBL Gti are simply amazing subs.
indeed and i love the sound but the car simply could not handle the physical weight of the sub hence whilst i have this car i will have to use alternatives. When i purchase a new car im going to look at something strong and big enough to use a pair of the W15GTI subs

i do regret the price i sold it at but the sub was far too expensive for the local guys here to sell at the price i paid and i eventually lost out because i sold it for 60% of what i paid for it 2 months after i got it

hopefully i wont lose out like that all the time but im going to plan a bit more carefully from now on also it seems like the JL audio might be sold so im going to have to start looking at subs again very soon but im in no huge rush right now
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Old 13th July 2009, 21:45   #9
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Careful Sir.
What's the price of the 15" GTi there.?
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Old 13th July 2009, 23:09   #10
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Careful Sir.
What's the price of the 15" GTi there.?
the retail value is around between 5300 and 5700 (ZA) rands which roughly translates to between 31500 to 34000 rupees as per the XE online currency converter, but i bought it for R5000 (roughly around 29500 rupees) and i sold it for R3000 (roughly 18000 rupees) plus the buyer paid for the shipping since he was in another province

the purchase discount obtained was because we as indians love to haggle and bargain and even though i wasnt born in India i also have that habit, but unfortunately im not as good a salesman as i am in negotiating discounts hence selling at a loss to my pocket,

the JL audio sub was much cheaper and i wont lose at all because i havent used it at all so if it does sell then im getting back the amount i paid
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Old 13th July 2009, 23:45   #11
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Nice.
I would love to listen to one of the GTi 12/15.
Was yours the MKII or the one before that. What power does your amp give at 3 ohms.
(It was a D6 right?)
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Old 14th July 2009, 00:51   #12
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Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Nice.
I would love to listen to one of the GTi 12/15.
Was yours the MKII or the one before that. What power does your amp give at 3 ohms.
(It was a D6 right?)
mine was the MKII version, it was the one with the chrome dustcap which signified the 60th anniversary edition.

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It definitely was a dual 6 and it comes pre connected in parrallel so yes it worked at 3 ohms, if you wanted the voice coils connected in series you had to change it manually. The amp does not increase much in terms of power when dropping impedance hence im estimating it would probably increase by around 100 watts or so when working at 3ohm

the W15GTI sounds incredible as does the W12GTI. My good buddy Pravin Bhicka who is an audio retailer here has a complete JBL setup which is amongst the best setups ive ever heard - and his setup looks amazing as well

heres some pics of his install - sorry for the but this install is one of my inspirations when it comes to installation

the W12GTI in the hatch of his Jeep Cherokee

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when you drop the seats, this is his amp rack

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fibreglass construction of the door cards painted to match the bodywork of the vehicle

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tweeter pods in the A-Pillars

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he has since replaced the the 506GTImkII components in the front with this

Hi from South Africa-dsc00136a.jpg

Hi from South Africa-dsc00142a.jpg

passive crossover from that 660GTI components

Hi from South Africa-dsc00141a.jpg

i dont have any photo's of his new front stage yet but i will get some taken soon. it is one of the best sounding cars ive ever heard, the midrange is incredible and only one criticism that makes it fall to slightly less than perfect is that the tweeter on the 660GTI set is a little too relaxed, but using the imprint improved that aspect a lot (he also has the 9887 with the imprint) i plan to borrow said imprint just to do my settings when my install is completed

BTW that JBL 660GTI is around R12000 here (roughly around 71200 rupees) just for the front stage speakers, though i might exceed that in my next car since i will definitely get the Esotars for that next vehicle. and the plan is to get the esotar2 110 tweeters and the esotar2 430 mids as well as the esotar2 650 midbasses but before continuing to dream here let me just complete this install first . Sorry for rambling on but i do hope you enjoy the pictures .... i certainly do each time i see them
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Old 14th July 2009, 18:40   #13
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Rocking setup there.
Are those the Crown/BPX series amps?
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Old 14th July 2009, 18:55   #14
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Very Impressive setup. Would like to know how would you rate the Morel Ultimo 12" against the Jbl 12Gti sub since you have used them?

The installation on Jeep looks very fine and detailed. Liked the silver finish on it and those tweeter pods.
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Old 14th July 2009, 22:15   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
Rocking setup there.
Are those the Crown/BPX series amps?
one is a crown BPX1100 to power the sub, and the other for the front stage is a GTO75.4, they just happened to have matched pretty nicely in the cosmetic department

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Very Impressive setup. Would like to know how would you rate the Morel Ultimo 12" against the Jbl 12Gti sub since you have used them?

The installation on Jeep looks very fine and detailed. Liked the silver finish on it and those tweeter pods.
thanks, the morel was pretty good and was a great sub but when you added a lot of power to it then it tended to actually break up pretty easily and it got really boomy which is not what i expected at all. At lower power levels it was really superb but then at lower power levels it didnt really shine as much as i would have liked and got weak when the car was switched on. Maybe it was a combination of phase problems coupled with low level and a not so good ennclosure that didnt allow it to work exactly how i wanted it to. the JBL 12" wasnt mine, that belongs to a friend but i did listen to it very often and for extended periods of time. And to me theres no contest i would chose the JBL anytime over the Ultimo especially since the JBL is just as musical but handled the power with more aplomb and really didnt tend to get weak as the car was switched on. with my 15" it got even lower and louder and the bass notes were a pleasure to listen to since it really added to the low frequency detail even when i dropped volume levels on it via the headunit sub level controls to keep the frequency response more or less linear

when the mood took me i did pick the sub levels up to basshead type of levels and with the JBL this was always still a pleasure since it was tight even when the response went very low down and it never ever got sloppy or uncontrolled like the ultimo tended to do at higher power levels

it might have been poorly constructed enclosures but in both instances i purchased prefabricated enclosures instead of building them myself since i was just testing to see if the speaker was actually what i was after, and the 15" was not only too heavy it was also too huge for my install plan which is why ive had to modify my install plans to accept a compromise in the subwoofer department. If i was building an all out competiton type SQ vehicle i would definitely use the JBL GTI instead of the morel Ultimo though i do want to listen to an Esotar2 1200 before i adjudge the JBL to be my alltime favourite sub. only problem is that the Esotar costs R12000 here (roughly 71000 rupees) so sadly it will have to be in someone elses install at the time

as a matter of interest there is one set of esotar2 650 mids and 110 tweets and a single Esotar sub thats been brought into South Africa for a guy with a porsche 911. he hasnt installed them yet since his clutch gave up and he sent the car in for repairs before beginning his install so he paid for the speakers and they have been lying at the distributors for a while and ive been promised an audition when that set is finally installed so thats something im looking forward to. Till then the JBL is definitely the best sub ive heard available here in South africa though im sure there are better that i havent heard as yet available elsewhere. The morel is IMHO too fussy and critical of the enclosure it is in and i didnt really like it hence i sold it on after two months of using it (it just didnt match my idea of being and "ultimate - end all be all" subwoofer whilst the JBL if not perfect was closer)

the other thing to consider is that maybe the morel was too sophisticated for my listening palate, yet i somehow doubt that and i would prefer to hold the opinion that it just wasnt according to my preference because im not really a boomer type of guy and more of a pure SQ type of guy and the JBL sounded closer to my reference points ie the best hi-fi's that ive listened to as well as the best sounding live performances ive attended

out of 10 i would give the Morel 7 and the JBL 8 based on my listening experiences. hope that this answers the question
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