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Old 31st July 2009, 23:46   #16
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Did you try running them in compatibility mode ? (right click on the executable and select "Properties" and then select options from the second tab)
Several old (Win 95/98) applications have worked on vista when I tried that.
OT warning:
Thanks CH. I am sorry my knowledge about PCs is nil so I did not know this mode existed.

Most car speakers are designed for a IB install (think high Qts) so it will work fine.
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Old 1st August 2009, 10:49   #17
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... I suppose that an audition (with the speakers held in hand) is in order ...
LOL No, not "speakers held in hand". That way you won't get a feeling of bass in the image. Without a baffle, bass cancellation occurs because the rear waves meet the ones from the front too soon. Instead, use large enough sheets of thin ply (or even thick stiff cardboard or thermocol) to temporarily mount the mid-bass for trying different mounting arrangements.

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... the front speakers (small ones inside the dashboard) ... if there is better speaker that can go in the place of the existing ones.
Better 4" coaxes (like JBL GT5-S204) will definitely improve the quality (don't expect too much bass from 4"), but not significantly improve front image. 4" components (like Illusion 4"; midbass mounted in stock dash location, tweeter at the base of A-pillar) will improve quality as well as the front image.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 13:44   #18
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Yup, but I'm trying to fix most of the rattles and damp the rear hatch before I actually get started. When and where are you planning to get them installed ?
I guess, I will be doing this upgrade most probably in bangalore, sometime this month with blueraven. I have to check his availability. The initial setup was also done at evo, but it was a basic install, with speakers going in the boxes and some tuneup thats all.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 15:34   #19
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Another possibility is using the area between the bottom of the dash and the gear stick. Tweeters as above. Single box housing 2 mid-bass, one facing pedals on one side, the other facing passenger foot-well.
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I remember someone starting a thread about this kind of placement - the consensus back then was that it would sound wierd.
cant find that thread, so reloading the pics.
2 pics from smokins santro lcd install. he gave me the idea.

i had thought of doing this but didn't install them.

reason being that the speakers were canceling them self out. had got the wooden frame made with the one speaker pointing to the driver side and one to the front passenger. but didn't put a partition in between. result was reverse sound cancellation. i didn't have the space to put a wooden partition coz the 6.5" speaker hieght was a lot and the magnets were almost touching each other. with a make-do partition the setup sounded good.

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Old 3rd August 2009, 16:10   #20
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Better 4" coaxes (like JBL GT5-S204) will definitely improve the quality (don't expect too much bass from 4"), but not significantly improve front image. 4" components (like Illusion 4"; midbass mounted in stock dash location, tweeter at the base of A-pillar) will improve quality as well as the front image.

Have tried those setups DA, the stock location of the front speakers in the Type-II Esteem is just above your knees, pointing down at the floor. It is pathetically placed. Very little improvement for a lot of money. Only solution is to cut the door pads & fix a 6.5" component speaker which I did after 3 years of pondering.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 17:09   #21
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reason being that the speakers were canceling them self out. had got the wooden frame made with the one speaker pointing to the driver side and one to the front passenger. but didn't put a partition in between. result was reverse sound cancellation. i didn't have the space to put a wooden partition coz the 6.5" speaker hieght was a lot and the magnets were almost touching each other. with a make-do partition the setup sounded good.
UM
Take a look at this - XTC 6-1/2" Speaker Baffles

I'm thinking that I'll mount the drivers on a flat piece of MDF with the speaker baffles that are advertised on that link (or something similar). Will then experiment with the placement and work out whatever sounds best.

Permanent mounting arrangements will be (re)considered later.
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Old 3rd August 2009, 19:11   #22
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Take a look at this - XTC 6-1/2" Speaker Baffles

I'm thinking that I'll mount the drivers on a flat piece of MDF with the speaker baffles that are advertised on that link (or something similar). Will then experiment with the placement and work out whatever sounds best.

Permanent mounting arrangements will be (re)considered later.
i didn't know about the baffles before.
the link shows the depth as 2.375 " deep while the 6.5" speakers i was trying to put are 2.5" deep. a wooden ring would have helped.

if u can get those baffles then your sound cancellation problem is solved. also will protect the speakers from any ac moisture in the dash.

from the test run in the wooden center bracket in my Santro with a makeshift wooden partition, the sound was good, but not as good as the speakers in the door pad, which i finally settled for.

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Old 4th August 2009, 10:11   #23
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1. Why should sound cancellation occur if both the speakers are wired correctly in phase? Are you sure it was 'sound cancellation' and not something simpler? Like since left channel sound travels a longer distance before it reaches you ears the whole setup sounds shifted to the right?

2. Those 'baffles' (they are not baffles in the context of the discussion here) are acoustically transparent, only prevent water droplets from falling on the rear of the speaker. They will not prevent any sound cancellation if you are expecting that
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Old 4th August 2009, 10:21   #24
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2. Those 'baffles' (they are not baffles in the context of the discussion here) are acoustically transparent, only prevent water droplets from falling on the rear of the speaker. They will not prevent any sound cancellation if you are expecting that
I'm just planning on using them primarily so that I don't have to create a "box" to protect the rear of the speaker.

I've had problems with the heater core in the blower unit leaking at times so didn't want to leave them open.

Last edited by CrackedHead : 4th August 2009 at 10:23.
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Old 4th August 2009, 13:37   #25
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LOL CH, a box is not only for protecting the speaker's rear - it's size also affects the kind of sound you get up front!
* Too small a sealed box behind a speaker diminishes the bass that comes out. That's because bass needs large cone travel (compared to mids and highs), and the limited compressibility of the air behind the speaker limits that cone travel
* Too big and there is no control on the cone at all, resulting in the cone doing more than what the music is telling it to do!

Anyhow, your solution is perfect in the IB mounting (Infinite Baffle, rear exposed) which is what most of the components are designed for.
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Old 10th August 2009, 11:41   #26
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My issue is now almost resolved, with me not having to drive the front speakers to higher volumes as earlier.

May be a bit OT as well

The short story goes as below:

I gave my car for service at Suraksha in Electronic city, and during that, identified a leak in the silencer pipe. They had fixed it by some welding and now the engine is very silent. Also, the suspension bushes were replaced and the car is very silent with out suspension noises as well.

Because of this, now the front speakers are very much acceptable to hear. In fact, I find the sound better than in my Swift which has JBL GT5 6 inch component driven by GT5604 4 channel amp, along with 12 inch subs. I will still be looking at clearing up more space by moving the rear 6x9 to the hatch door, and to install underseat 6 inch or 8 inch subs in the near future.

Regarding the swift which I was reporting about poor midbass earlier, this weekend I even tried swapping the speaker terminals (phase) and doesnot seem to make any different in the midbass. The sound feels very tiring eventhough it goes very loud, with the lack of midbass.

Last edited by ramkris : 10th August 2009 at 11:52.
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