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Old 31st August 2009, 10:28   #121
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1st at TBHP. Congrats. Even the built quality is stunning.

//
  • component speaker system includes 2 woofers, 2 tweeters, and 2 crossovers
  • 6-3/4" hybrid glass fiber woofer with Natural Butyl Rubber Multi-Roll surround
  • 1-1/4" ring-radiator tweeter
  • 2-way external crossover network with 4-level tweeter control and 6 phase link modules
  • 4-ohm impedance
  • power range: 8-100 watts RMS (300 watts peak power)
  • frequency response: 35-60,000 Hz
  • sensitivity: 88 dB
  • top-mount depth: 2-9/16"
  • includes 5"x7" and 6"x8" mounting plates
//

60k Hz ! your pets even gonna love this

Frank; how much will you feed the compos?

Last edited by jkdas : 31st August 2009 at 10:38.
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Old 31st August 2009, 11:51   #122
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
60k Hz ! your pets even gonna love this
Usually it is called super-tweeter, but let us call this super-duper-tweeter! It will work as a mosquito repellent as well
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Old 31st August 2009, 12:20   #123
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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Thank you navinji for bestowing the honour for the purchase of $200 components on me . lol. My budget was 1/10th that.
I thought you said your budget was Rs. 25K. The Alpine sell for over 50K locally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Here's a brief idea on the working of the Xover. An excerpt from the Manual.
Only part I dont get is why the need for J1 (impendace compensation bypass). J1 should just be shorted. J1 open would bypass impedance compensartion for the woofer and slightly cut the upper mids (3K region).

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
sorry. my bad. am still a noob. what exactly IS a phase plug in the midbass??.
The central aluminum cone in the midbass is called a phase plug.

If one uses a regular dust cap to protect the voice coil the cavity between this dustcap and the manget/pole piece structure will create resonances. A solid phase plug eliminates this resonance.

Also in most cases the phase plug is simply an extension of the pole piece or can be directly attached to the "T" of the pole piece (often screwed on) and hence is not part of the driver's Mms. The phase plug (often made of aluminum) reflects sound from the cone and might boost the upper mids. the solutions for this are either compensation in the crossover or treating the phase plug.

Frank, the "J2 part" you see (which Alpine calls "pressense control") is also used in many home audio speakers for baffle step compensation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
LOL. I have a set of Luccent components that are lying unused right now ;0
I thought they were carbon components with Lucent subs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Frank; how much will you feed the compos?
JK, DLS RA20
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Old 31st August 2009, 17:58   #124
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So much technicalities involved.
Has to be good.
Feeding 120 RMS right?

Also has the Clarion arrived?
When is the install scheduled?

Last edited by abhinav.gupta88 : 31st August 2009 at 18:03.
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Old 31st August 2009, 18:10   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Congratulations, DrFrankBhaiMehta!

Which dimension is 6-1/8"? Mounting circle diameter? Outer dia of the circular frame (not reckoning with mounting tabs)? Max.outer dia of mounting tabs? Outer dia of surround?
Thank you DerAlteji
I think the out dia of the surround is what should be taken as 6 1/8". I shall actually measure it when it comes into my hands next week.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
Way to go Frank. Everything looks perfect. I am aware xover do have more setting as to how you place them on or off-axis. But the only reason I see to go active, one to have flexibility the TA individually on them along with the gain and xover points, second to give them more power as the midbass would really shine with it, passiver xover/caps seems to rob litjtle power off.
you have a point there. I would be able to give the midbasses more power. Let's see how they sound with 20% more power than they are rated @.

Quote:
Nevertheless, am sure the passive setup will really shine with the RA20. Just waiting for THE day to see it all wired up.
Me too. DYING to see how they perform with the RA20. The amp is my favourite in the entire equipment now (till we power up the rest of the new stuff)

Quote:
One question how do you plan to install the midbass on-axis. I suppose you intend to have them in Door stock mount location??
the stock door mount location is in such a way, that the plane made by it and my ear is less the 45 degrees. THis is due to the fact that the speaker is installed much higher up in the front doors than normally done in other cars.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
1st at TBHP. Congrats. Even the built quality is stunning.

//
  • component speaker system includes 2 woofers, 2 tweeters, and 2 crossovers
  • 6-3/4" hybrid glass fiber woofer with Natural Butyl Rubber Multi-Roll surround
  • 1-1/4" ring-radiator tweeter
  • 2-way external crossover network with 4-level tweeter control and 6 phase link modules
  • 4-ohm impedance
  • power range: 8-100 watts RMS (300 watts peak power)
  • frequency response: 35-60,000 Hz
  • sensitivity: 88 dB
  • top-mount depth: 2-9/16"
  • includes 5"x7" and 6"x8" mounting plates
//

60k Hz ! your pets even gonna love this

Frank; how much will you feed the compos?
Thank you JK chetta ;-)
I will be feeding it 120W of RMS power from the DLS RA20 2 channel amplifier.
As for the range, I just think its a publicity/number crunching game from Alpine. 60000 Hz?! What were they thinking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s View Post
Usually it is called super-tweeter, but let us call this super-duper-tweeter! It will work as a mosquito repellent as well
Lol. Super duper tweeter

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I thought you said your budget was Rs. 25K. The Alpine sell for over 50K locally.
Is it? That's more than double of what it is going to cost me! They cost less than 25 k sir.



Quote:
Only part I dont get is why the need for J1 (impendace compensation bypass). J1 should just be shorted. J1 open would bypass impedance compensartion for the woofer and slightly cut the upper mids (3K region).
I have no idea what's happening here ;-)


Quote:
The central aluminum cone in the midbass is called a phase plug.

If one uses a regular dust cap to protect the voice coil the cavity between this dustcap and the manget/pole piece structure will create resonances. A solid phase plug eliminates this resonance.

Also in most cases the phase plug is simply an extension of the pole piece or can be directly attached to the "T" of the pole piece (often screwed on) and hence is not part of the driver's Mms. The phase plug (often made of aluminum) reflects sound from the cone and might boost the upper mids. the solutions for this are either compensation in the crossover or treating the phase plug.

Frank, the "J2 part" you see (which Alpine calls "pressense control") is also used in many home audio speakers for baffle step compensation.
I didn't have so much knowledge about these things sir! Thanks again, for the nth time for that titbit. Will be interesting to read about J 1 and J 2 tonight. Also about the phase plug.
Quote:
I thought they were carbon components with Lucent subs.
No sir, they were Luccents. I haven't indulged in the Carbons yet!


Quote:
Originally Posted by abhinav.gupta88 View Post
So much technicalities involved.
Has to be good.
Feeding 120 RMS right?

Also has the Clarion arrived?
When is the install scheduled?
Yes, It better be good X-X

The clarion has yet not arrived and I am waiting to see that leviathan!
The install is scheduled in the next 2-3 weeks. Ajay Kamath is a busy man. No time for chaalu installs like mine

Last edited by frankmehta : 31st August 2009 at 18:11.
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Old 31st August 2009, 19:44   #126
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you have a point there. I would be able to give the midbasses more power. Let's see how they sound with 20% more power than they are rated @.
This is Just for the info. I had checked out the manual. It says that the midbass have power rating of 75RMS with tweeter having the rating of 20RMS. Also, noticed that the FS for the midbass is about 45hz with frequency response of 32hz-9000hz. In which case the midbass can do well down to 63hz at 24db octave slope going upto 6000hz with 12db or 24db octave slope. As per the power, feeding them with upto 90-100RMS should be good. 120RMS might be a lot for them.
Tweeter rated at 20RMS I suppose can be crossed very low from 1400hz and above at 12/24db octave slope, the FS for these stands at good 790hz with freq. response of 800-45000hz.

Running these active would give a good flexibility since as per the mounting you can make either the midbass cover almost complete vocal part upto 6000hz and 6000hz above can be handled by the tweeter OR You can run the Midbass doing 63hz at 24dbslope to 1600hz at 12db slope and above this point can be done by the tweeter, but since it is rated at just 20RMS I guess best would be to figure out which setup would suit better as per your car's acoustic.

Options are many with both these midbass and tweeter as they have very good flexible freq. response and T/s parameters if you plan to active with them. I had read somewhere on some forum where some have used the midbass in both passive and active form and have stayed with running them Active and with the digital crossover on the Eclipse you could have more precise freq. points and slope. But, somehow I have feeling that running them active won't make much difference compared to passive in context to SQ from them, may be little better midbass response with active.

Would like to see the install happening Frank let me know when it does.

Cheers.

Last edited by Invinsible : 31st August 2009 at 19:49.
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Old 31st August 2009, 19:50   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
This is Just for the info. I had checked out the manual. It says that the midbass have power rating of 75RMS with tweeter having the rating of 20RMS. Also, noticed that the FS for the midbass is about 45hz with frequency response of 32hz-9000hz. In which case the midbass can do well down to 63hz at 24db octave slope going upto 6000hz with 12db or 24db octave slope. As per the power, feeding them with upto 90-100RMS should be good. 120RMS might be a lot for them.
Tweeter rated at 20RMS I suppose can be crossed very low from 1400hz and above at 12/24db octave slope, the FS for these stands at good 790hz with freq. response of 800-45000hz.

Running these active would give a good flexibility since as per the mounting you can make either the midbass cover almost complete vocal part upto 6000hz and 6000hz above can be handled by the tweeter OR You can run the Midbass doing 63hz at 24dbslope to 1600hz at 12db slope and above this point can be done by the tweeter, but since it is rated at just 20RMS I guess best would be to figure out which setup would suit better as per your car's acoustic.

Options are many with both these midbass and tweeter as they have very good flexible freq. response and T/s parameters if you plan to active with them. I had read somewhere on some forum where some have used the midbass in both passive and active form and have stayed with running them Active and with the digital crossover on the Eclipse you could have more precise freq. points and slope. But, somehow I have feeling that running them active won't make much difference compared to passive in context to SQ from them, may be little better midbass response with active.

Would like to see the install happening Frank let me know when it does.

Cheers.
I think 120W should be what they should get and hence asked about the amp.
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Old 31st August 2009, 19:59   #128
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I seriously don't think feeding the components 120W is any issue.
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Old 31st August 2009, 20:30   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
This is Just for the info. I had checked out the manual. It says that the midbass have power rating of 75RMS with tweeter having the rating of 20RMS. Also, noticed that the FS for the midbass is about 45hz with frequency response of 32hz-9000hz. In which case the midbass can do well down to 63hz at 24db octave slope going upto 6000hz with 12db or 24db octave slope. As per the power, feeding them with upto 90-100RMS should be good. 120RMS might be a lot for them.
Tweeter rated at 20RMS I suppose can be crossed very low from 1400hz and above at 12/24db octave slope, the FS for these stands at good 790hz with freq. response of 800-45000hz.

Running these active would give a good flexibility since as per the mounting you can make either the midbass cover almost complete vocal part upto 6000hz and 6000hz above can be handled by the tweeter OR You can run the Midbass doing 63hz at 24dbslope to 1600hz at 12db slope and above this point can be done by the tweeter, but since it is rated at just 20RMS I guess best would be to figure out which setup would suit better as per your car's acoustic.

Options are many with both these midbass and tweeter as they have very good flexible freq. response and T/s parameters if you plan to active with them. I had read somewhere on some forum where some have used the midbass in both passive and active form and have stayed with running them Active and with the digital crossover on the Eclipse you could have more precise freq. points and slope. But, somehow I have feeling that running them active won't make much difference compared to passive in context to SQ from them, may be little better midbass response with active.

Would like to see the install happening Frank let me know when it does.

Cheers.
thanks abhi. i had read all this from the same source you read, but let me tell you that my amp for this set is just about enough power! There are people who are feeding an ENTIRE PDX 150.4 in active mode. LOL.

Another interesting tidbit for everyone. AS you'll must have noticed in the schematic diagram of the cross-over, there is a 20W OSRAM electric bulb built into the crossover, that lights up whenever there is an excess of power going to them.
people giving 300W each side, have still to see the bulb light up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
I think 120W should be what they should get and hence asked about the amp.
JK, MY BAD. SOrry man. I thought it was 120*2.

Just checked out the DLS site, and it says 130*2 @ 13.8V
and more than ~140*2 @ 14.4v


DLS - Products

Number of channels 2
Amplifier class AB
Output power in 4 ohm 2 x 130 W
Output power in 2 ohm 2 x 200 W
Mono bridge mode 4 ohm 440 W
Damping factor > 200
S/N ratio, A-weighted > 100 dB
Frequency range 10 Hz - 50 kHz
Input sensitivity 0,2 - 7 V
Input impedance > 10 kohm
Input impedance, high level 330 ohm
High pass filter 20 - 150 Hz
Low pass filter 40 - 125 Hz
Grand bass filter 0-18 dB @ 40 Hz
Low level output No
High level input with auto start Yes
Power consumption (idle) 0,6 A
Power consumption (max) 50 A
Rec. power cable Minimum 4AWG / 21 mm2
Fuses 2 x 25 A
Dimension (W x D x H) 359 x 245 x 59 mm (14,1 x 9,65 x 2,33 inch)
Weight 3,8 kg ( 8,4 lb)

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhibh View Post
I seriously don't think feeding the components 120W is any issue.
Make that 130-140W now ;-0

Last edited by frankmehta : 31st August 2009 at 20:34.
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Old 31st August 2009, 20:31   #130
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Running them with 120RMS shouldn't be an issue at all. I was talking about it from running them in Active. In Passive 120RMS would not be an issue. Just that the RA20 actual rating is 130RMS x 2 and not 120 and it's an underrated value. DLS - Products
Also, need to check is about the power rating of the passive xover as to how much they can handle. Every passive xover can handle power upto a certain limit and anyways it's not that its gonna be played at 130RMS all the time, so I guess there shouldn't be any issue and little head room on the amp is always better.

Quote:
Just checked out the DLS site, and it says 130*2 @ 12V
and more than 150*2 @ 14.4v
130 x 2 is at 13.8V and not 12V. Had read some test review on them where the amp did about 164RMS x2 at 14.4volt.

Last edited by Invinsible : 31st August 2009 at 20:40.
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Old 31st August 2009, 20:43   #131
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Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
Just checked out the DLS site, and it says 130*2 @ 13.8V
and more than ~140*2 @ 14.4v


Make that 130-140W now ;-0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Invinsible View Post
130 x 2 is at 13.8V and not 12V. Had read some test review on them where the amp did about 164RMS x2 at 14.4volt.
Just 1 question will the THD be 0.1% at 14.4V ?
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Old 31st August 2009, 21:46   #132
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Originally Posted by abhibh View Post
Just 1 question will the THD be 0.1% at 14.4V ?
The amp is rated 130 x 2 watts rms at 13.8 volts with 20 Hz - 20 kHz and < 0,1% distortion.

And I think frank will be happy with this much power..what say Frank ?
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Old 31st August 2009, 22:33   #133
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MORE than enough power sirji ;-)


Everyone has a list of 'firsts' that they associate with new entrants/members in the family.

like the first walk of a newborn.
the first kiss.
the first time one got drunk.
the first car.


I had my set of 'firsts' with the Fiesta 'ICE' today.

Sent a clipped signal to the speakers from the Head unit for the first time today.

Made the tweeter break up with the low piano notes of Last Christmas.

Made the door panels vibrate until the speakers clipped like mad!

Suddenly, I woke up to realize that I can't live without my (good) ICE anymore. However hard Ford worked on the ICE supplied with the Fiesta, it's bad. To say the least. For someone who is used to listening to demanding music at 'higher than normal' volumes (and still get a good response from the speakers) will cringe at the thought of music playing from stock ICE.

I am done with this crap now. I need my ICE. FAST! Install will begin as soon as all the equipment flies in. Waiting with bated breath (and open ears!)
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Old 31st August 2009, 23:14   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankmehta View Post
MORE than enough power sirji ;-)


Everyone has a list of 'firsts' that they associate with new entrants/members in the family.

like the first walk of a newborn.
the first kiss.
the first time one got drunk.
the first car.


I had my set of 'firsts' with the Fiesta 'ICE' today.

Sent a clipped signal to the speakers from the Head unit for the first time today.

Made the tweeter break up with the low piano notes of Last Christmas.

Made the door panels vibrate until the speakers clipped like mad!

Suddenly, I woke up to realize that I can't live without my (good) ICE anymore. However hard Ford worked on the ICE supplied with the Fiesta, it's bad. To say the least. For someone who is used to listening to demanding music at 'higher than normal' volumes (and still get a good response from the speakers) will cringe at the thought of music playing from stock ICE.

I am done with this crap now. I need my ICE. FAST! Install will begin as soon as all the equipment flies in. Waiting with bated breath (and open ears!)
Hay Frank, whats the damage on these comps? also from where did you buy them from?
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Old 31st August 2009, 23:17   #135
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I haven't got the comps yet nitinji. Still waiting for them to come down from USA. Bought them last week. Should be here next week. Damage is half of what it would be in India. About 24 k
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