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Old 17th August 2009, 15:09   #31
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Well yea its Hifonics 1208 Brutus
and for time being one sub will be powered by it @ 4 ohms , 2nd may be added if the need is felt .

And i haven't tested the amp yet with sub i have bought , but sub is being running in at low volume gains ;D


And

@ blueraven
Your setups looks HOT . i wish i could do same with my setup but sadly i cannot .

Last edited by ankit_chd : 17th August 2009 at 15:13.
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Old 18th August 2009, 15:54   #32
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Originally Posted by bharti22shresth View Post
You just put words to my mouth sir.
I apologize if I misunderstood your stand.

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
You are a great believer in 'coatings', aren't you? Even when there aren't any, or the fact that they don't have anything to do in this case. Carry on, Doctor!
Sir I'm well above 4 Lakh rupees into my setup, would it not be folly to not spend 6500 rupees on my Kicker wiring kit and around 4000 odd rupees more on extra Kicker wiring? So that totals to around 10500 rupees of power wire running through a system which is worth in excess of 40 times the value of power cable? I wouldn't risk it.

And yes being a doc I have a lot of respect for coatings

I maintain that both cables should have equal conductivity, but I do believe that those made specifically for car audio must have a leg up. And WRT to gauge and coating, Kicker has been proven time and time again to be true to gauge!

I have some spare Kicker 1/0 gauge wire left over, I think I'm going to do some research of my own. Be prepared for a full study from conductivity to resistance to environment etc. Now time to take a trip to the electronics department at IIT
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Old 18th August 2009, 17:48   #33
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I have some spare Kicker 1/0 gauge wire left over, I think I'm going to do some research of my own. Be prepared for a full study from conductivity to resistance to environment etc. Now time to take a trip to the electronics department at IIT

No offense to anyone here..I have a setup of more than 500k, but I still use finolex power wire because I understand and know thing I do not follow marketing gimmicks . It is not that I cannot spend on wires.

About testing of Finolex or any branded power cable I would love to see the results from the IIT Electronics Department.

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 18th August 2009 at 17:51.
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Old 18th August 2009, 21:28   #34
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... Sir I'm well above 4 Lakh rupees into my setup, ... which is worth in excess of 40 times the value of power cable? I wouldn't risk it. ...
I agree. Of course, Doc, otherwise the marketing guys will be jobless, na! If one talks to the ladies, there is a similar logic about cost of fashion accessories being a large %age of cost of fashion itself. They wouldn't be seen dead in a Ritu Kumar outfit and chowpati chappals! Sorry, Doc, this is not meant to offend you - but to make you laugh.

Oye LBM paaji, even I am waiting for Doc to come up with his test results. Maybe then he will understand how ineffective skin effect is at f=0.
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Old 18th August 2009, 21:33   #35
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I apologize if I misunderstood your stand.


No sir, rather you and I are on the same page.

@ankit- that hifonics is indeed a very good amp. How far are you from completing your install?
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Old 18th August 2009, 22:55   #36
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Well There is a shock , so be glued to the thread .

I guess i need to change the name of the thread too
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Old 18th August 2009, 23:08   #37
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
I agree. Of course, Doc, otherwise the marketing guys will be jobless, na! If one talks to the ladies, there is a similar logic about cost of fashion accessories being a large %age of cost of fashion itself. They wouldn't be seen dead in a Ritu Kumar outfit and chowpati chappals! Sorry, Doc, this is not meant to offend you - but to make you laugh.

Oye LBM paaji, even I am waiting for Doc to come up with his test results. Maybe then he will understand how ineffective skin effect is at f=0.
No worries, I take everything in the right spirit. The scientist in me is never satisfied, so I try to use all the resources at my disposal to explore all I can. I blame the fact that I was raised in a home full of scientists (I hate it!). But it has taught me to believe in engineering and that in today's commercial world that every single void will sooner or later be filled.

I'm not looking to see or prove a night and day difference, but even if the difference were 5-10% I'd consider the premium I payed well spent.

I will attempt to explain my stand once more. We all love our cars and hence are going the next step: modification. Be it ICE or drivetrain or engine, we want to treat our babies to the best. Would you drape an infant in clothing off the side of the road or mothercare? Both are 100% cotton, but which one would you buy? I'm simply applying the same ideology.

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Originally Posted by ankit_chd View Post
Well There is a shock , so be glued to the thread .

I guess i need to change the name of the thread too
oooh oooh New car?

I can only imagine that the change is to be applied to "My Palio's" else it would mean the ICE journey has been canceled.

Last edited by DocG : 18th August 2009 at 23:18.
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Old 19th August 2009, 00:39   #38
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oooh oooh New car?

I can only imagine that the change is to be applied to "My Palio's" else it would mean the ICE journey has been canceled.

No ICE journey is still very much ON

Last edited by ankit_chd : 19th August 2009 at 00:42.
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Old 19th August 2009, 09:44   #39
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Originally Posted by DocG View Post
oooh oooh New car?

I can only imagine that the change is to be applied to "My Palio's" else it would mean the ICE journey has been canceled.
I feel the same. Now that you said ICE journey is still ON.

The only 2 things that can change is MY to someone else's name or Palio to someother car.

What is it??
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Old 19th August 2009, 10:19   #40
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
LBM paaji, even I am waiting for Doc to come up with his test results. Maybe then he will understand how ineffective skin effect is at f=0.
DA you are a riot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I'm not looking to see or prove a night and day difference, but even if the difference were 5-10% I'd consider the premium I payed well spent..
DocG the premium you might pay might be of the order of 50-400%. The one and only reason I do not disuade people from using good branded power cable a la JBL, Kicker, etc... is that atlesat they will get good stuff that is freeely available and they dont have to go looking all over the market.

I use a power cable called Polycab. It is just as good as any branded cable there is and a whole lot cheaper (due my affiliations my cost is 0). For someone like me (working in the engineering industry) this cable is freely available. For my lawyer, doctor, charter accountant friends it is not; so for these guys recomending a branded cable kit from JBL or Kicker or any good brand is the best solution.

This is very similar to RCA cable. For my friends I recommend Monster. Monster is overpriced but atleast I know they wont use BOSS or some other cheaper cables that might allow engine whine to creep into the system. For myself I use Belden custom rolled by my BIL (sister's hubby) in Singapore. The Old Man (Rudra-da) has a older set of these cables and he loves them. Can the general public get hold of them, no. So for the General public using Monster is a very good option. For TBHPians Belden might be an option too - I think LBM uses Supra or Sommer (other brands that are only available via specialist shops).

In short being a TBHPian you get access to the knowledge and experience of many who are passionate (in some cases like LBM just plain insane) about audio. It would be a shame to not utillise this rare and valuable resource.

By using Kicker instead of Finolex you are maybe spending 100% more for the same quality of cable. Is this bad, not nesscarily. If you can't get Finolex easily Kicker is a good bet. If however you can get Finolex why not use the money saved on upgrading the XO's caps to Polyester/Polystyrene?
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Old 19th August 2009, 10:44   #41
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Originally Posted by shreyasma View Post
I feel the same. Now that you said ICE journey is still ON.

The only 2 things that can change is MY to someone else's name or Palio to someother car.

What is it??

Well it is still MY only .
Well yeah car can be some other too
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Old 19th August 2009, 10:56   #42
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So all branded Car Audio Power Cables, Be it of any brand Kicker/JBL/XYZ are nothing but marketing gimmicks, And All users on TBHP who have installed such cables are fools right??

The ICE Guru's on Team BHP use this. We now know that NavinJI uses Polycab Cable, LBM uses Finolex Cable. DerAlteJI what power cable are you using in your car??

: Infact wont it be great to see the equipment in NavinJI and DerAlteJI's cars?? I am very curious to know the equipment ICE gurus have. It will help Newbies like me to choose equipment wisely. I know now that I wasted 13000 of my money on useless Kicker Power cables. Maybe I can learn more
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Old 19th August 2009, 12:14   #43
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
In short being a TBHPian you get access to the knowledge and experience of many who are passionate (in some cases like LBM just plain insane) about audio. It would be a shame to not utillise this rare and valuable resource.

By using Kicker instead of Finolex you are maybe spending 100% more for the same quality of cable. Is this bad, not nesscarily. If you can't get Finolex easily Kicker is a good bet. If however you can get Finolex why not use the money saved on upgrading the XO's caps to Polyester/Polystyrene?
Very true Navin Ji this is my motive. But since no one is interested no need to bang you head on the wall. If you have money to spend go the branded car audio way. If you want to save a bit then go the finolex way or I would say a smart way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m4ugr8 View Post
I know now that I wasted 13000 of my money on useless Kicker Power cables. Maybe I can learn more
Manan You are not a fool. Like Navin Ji said you had money and easy access to Kicker you when for it. And you must be happy for it. You are one very much satisfied customer. Also you wanted a bling install what would a black dull power cable achive that. So Enjoy ICE.

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Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I'm not looking to see or prove a night and day difference, but even if the difference were 5-10% I'd consider the premium I payed well spent.
DocG I would really want you to check the comparisons. I would bet that you will find the differnce the other way round. Then I will ask you which is a smart thing to do, that it is better to pay a premium from a 5-10% less perfroming product than a 5-8 times cheaper alternative.
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Old 19th August 2009, 12:24   #44
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Sorry DocG, don't want to offend you, but do I smell contradiction here (OT: CK's Contradiction is my favorite )

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I maintain that both cables should have equal conductivity, but I do believe that those made specifically for car audio must have a leg up.
So you remain an ardent Kicker backer (nice phrase) just on the basis of your belief, without any scientific evidence to back it (and also when there is enough of contrarian evidence provided by DerAlte and LBM?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
The scientist in me is never satisfied, so I try to use all the resources at my disposal to explore all I can.
That's the spirit my friend! I hope you come back with enough evidence to show us one good reason to spend thousands extra on branded cable!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocG View Post
I will attempt to explain my stand once more. We all love our cars and hence are going the next step: modification. Be it ICE or drivetrain or engine, we want to treat our babies to the best. Would you drape an infant in clothing off the side of the road or mothercare? Both are 100% cotton, but which one would you buy? I'm simply applying the same ideology.
This ideology I completely agree- there is no limit to spending when you are really in a mood to pamper, either yourself or your loved one. I know a person whose babies diapers cost Rs. 700+ for a pack that lasts 2 days. It is imported from UK. Are these diapers 20% superior than Mothercare? Does the baby cry x% lesser when in these diapers than she would say in Huggies? I really don't know.

There are designer ladies bags that cost Rs. 2000, 3000. Then there are Hermes and Louis Vuitton bags that cost in lakhs, sometimes tens of lakhs. Why do some ladies spend so much on Hermes then? If they are old-gen rich then just to pamper themselves, or in most cases (especially India) to show off their status in society gatherings.

The point I am trying to make is- if you want to pamper yourself, then there's really no limit! Why limit yourself to Kicker, why not get them to make you a special, custom power cable with copper extracted from African mines, treated to be Oxygen-free at Du Pont's R&D labs and coated with same plastics as used in NASA's space stations? I know neither LBM or you would go to that extent, but would you advise someone in the mood to pamper his baby (read car) to take this route? In my mind, that is real pampering!

Again, no offense meant, but pampering really knows no limits!
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Old 19th August 2009, 19:33   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
DocG the premium you might pay might be of the order of 50-400%. The one and only reason I do not disuade people from using good branded power cable a la JBL, Kicker, etc... is that atlesat they will get good stuff that is freeely available and they dont have to go looking all over the market.

I use a power cable called Polycab. It is just as good as any branded cable there is and a whole lot cheaper (due my affiliations my cost is 0). For someone like me (working in the engineering industry) this cable is freely available. For my lawyer, doctor, charter accountant friends it is not; so for these guys recomending a branded cable kit from JBL or Kicker or any good brand is the best solution.

This is very similar to RCA cable. For my friends I recommend Monster. Monster is overpriced but atleast I know they wont use BOSS or some other cheaper cables that might allow engine whine to creep into the system. For myself I use Belden custom rolled by my BIL (sister's hubby) in Singapore. The Old Man (Rudra-da) has a older set of these cables and he loves them. Can the general public get hold of them, no. So for the General public using Monster is a very good option. For TBHPians Belden might be an option too - I think LBM uses Supra or Sommer (other brands that are only available via specialist shops).

In short being a TBHPian you get access to the knowledge and experience of many who are passionate (in some cases like LBM just plain insane) about audio. It would be a shame to not utillise this rare and valuable resource.

By using Kicker instead of Finolex you are maybe spending 100% more for the same quality of cable. Is this bad, not nesscarily. If you can't get Finolex easily Kicker is a good bet. If however you can get Finolex why not use the money saved on upgrading the XO's caps to Polyester/Polystyrene?
Sir I highly respect your opinion, and I agree that there are a lot of other exotic brands out there which might even cost more or be better, would never argue with that. However what I think is that use something good as the minimum reference, whatever there is which is better is a step above.

I don't understand one thing though. OK power wire made for industrial use is just as good as car audio branded power wire. I currently have no data to sway the argument either way.

But could someone please explain to me why when it comes to RCAs or speaker cables why all the gurus point the other way? It's really confusing. There must be some reason to this. Please don't mention construction quality or purpose build/engineering, because these reasons have been used to sway the debate in favour of Polycab, Havells etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker View Post
Very true Navin Ji this is my motive. But since no one is interested no need to bang you head on the wall. If you have money to spend go the branded car audio way. If you want to save a bit then go the finolex way or I would say a smart way.

DocG I would really want you to check the comparisons. I would bet that you will find the differnce the other way round. Then I will ask you which is a smart thing to do, that it is better to pay a premium from a 5-10% less perfroming product than a 5-8 times cheaper alternative.
Sir I have nothing against Finolex or L&T or Havells or Polycab. Heck if I did my father wouldn't make as much money, considering all of the above are existing and very old customers for the industry to which he belongs.

The thing that I believe in is purpose build, and that alone. I have already been down to IIT Mumbai and had a sit down with some professors there, hopefully I will have all the information I need (like equations, theorems, laws etc) by the weekend. There on I will proceed with the tests under their guidence. Hopefully I will get some conclusive data.

At the same time don't misunderstand my argument. I never said that the industrial wire has less copper, or isn't as good in terms of conductivity. That will be tested, however I want to focus more on the environmental effects on the wire, like will the coating harden then crack/crumble, what is the strength of the electromagnetic field generated by the wire, how well does the wire as a whole last temperatures in excess of 150 deg C? Mechanical stress and it's effects on the wire etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenh0rn View Post
So you remain an ardent Kicker backer (nice phrase) just on the basis of your belief, without any scientific evidence to back it (and also when there is enough of contrarian evidence provided by DerAlte and LBM?)

There are designer ladies bags that cost Rs. 2000, 3000. Then there are Hermes and Louis Vuitton bags that cost in lakhs, sometimes tens of lakhs. Why do some ladies spend so much on Hermes then? If they are old-gen rich then just to pamper themselves, or in most cases (especially India) to show off their status in society gatherings.

Again, no offense meant, but pampering really knows no limits!
My point is about setting a reference point. Anything above is an added bonus, but what should be the minimum?

It's like how everyone hits on Sony. Do they make a poor product? I don't think so. Why then are they hated so much?
Perhaps it's not the right product for you, perhaps your prejudice is baseless, but it doesn't take away from the fact that they have millions of happy customers, a majority of which are loyal!
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