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Old 12th November 2005, 10:52   #2386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrey

1. why a standard of 4ohm was chosen.
2. why a 4 ohms tweeter and 4 ohms subwoofer, both fed from same source one by one gives different output( in terms of sound power output)....
3. what is the limiting factor for current?(Thermal or linear displacement) what is the max. current a P watt (rms) speaker with R impedance can handle?
Many books have been written about this. Somewhere on this forum a list has been publishedby me. I cant find it now.

4 ohms was chosen for cars as the 8 ohm standard was already prevasive in home audio and the car's had only 12V batteries. Before the days of SMPS etc... it was easier to get higher power using lower impedance. (12V/8 = 1.5 ; 9W, 12V/4 = 3; 36W).

the response of a speaker is dependant on it's mechanical as well as electrical characterisitcs. in fact the mechanical characteristics have a lerger effect. it is by controlling these mechanincal characteristics (spider, cone, surrond, profile etc..) and electrical characteristics that one designs a speaker.

your last question is very very vauge. I cannot think of a succint answer.
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Old 12th November 2005, 14:20   #2387
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Quote:
Autophile,

I know Impedance/resistance of the speaker depends on Coil only and not on size of cone, magnet or shell etc. What i was asking is
1. why a standard of 4ohm was chosen.
2. why a 4 ohms tweeter and 4 ohms subwoofer, both fed from same source one by one gives different output( in terms of sound power output)
when we know that in both cases current in the coil will be same, so in case of speakers wattage looks like, is not decided by P= I(square)*R.( in this case it only equals to heat produced in wires and not the sound )
3. what is the limiting factor for current?(Thermal or linear displacement) what is the max. current a P watt (rms) speaker with R impedance can handle?

Navin please throw some light.
Shrey why dont u try http://www.bcae1.com/. It will help u tremendously.
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Old 12th November 2005, 20:52   #2388
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Hey guys ...........have alook at this link.

http://pub14.ezboard.com/fcaraudiota...picID=27.topic
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Old 12th November 2005, 21:38   #2389
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Hi guys, I wanted to enquire which one of these two makes a better amp, An alpine 604 Costing Rs 3400 700W, Or a sony 504 costing 4K with 500 W power...Most ppl have said that Alpine is better......So whts ur opinion???
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Old 12th November 2005, 21:51   #2390
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Originally Posted by somebodystopme
Hi guys, I wanted to enquire which one of these two makes a better amp, An alpine 604 Costing Rs 3400 700W, Or a sony 504 costing 4K with 500 W power...Most ppl have said that Alpine is better......So whts ur opinion???
Alpine 604 for 3.4k is a fake. The Sony on the other hand is not. The Sony 504 you can find for 3.5k, search a lil more, at least thats their rate in Delhi. The Sony 504 is a very decent amplifier for the price, but lacks kick.
The fake Alpine on the other hand, will sound better in the begining, but with time all the fake components will start falling apart internally, the amp will run out of steam, and your SQ will go out the door. I suggest between the two, got for the Sony with your eyes closed.
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Old 13th November 2005, 00:36   #2391
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Following are some queries I have regarding a setup for my Palio 1.6:

Speakers:
GTO 606CE Comp for Front or GTO 506CE if the standard size comes out as a constraint.
GTO 936 e for the rear.
Is using components for the rear a better option than the normal 3-in-1 speakers?

Woofer:
GTO CS 1200 Tube

Can the GTO 1202D be fitted in a Tube? Will it have any better bass quality in a tube?

Amplifiers:
GTO 301.1
Power Output : 204 Watts RMS x 1 channel at 4 ohms and ≤ 1% THD + N
GTO 75.4
Power Output : 104 Watts RMS x 4 channels at 4 ohms and ≤ 1% THD + N

Which of the two amps is better? Will an Alpine amp do a better job? Any other suggestions for better Amplifier? I am still
unsure about the idea of a Monoblock amp. Any advantages over using a multi channel amp? Thats the only reason confusing me
to decide between using the above two.

I plan to use a separate Sony 502 in bridged mode for the sub? Is this a wise thing to do or I am wasting money?
Can the 502 be used in Bridged mode?

Head Unit:
Without doubt the Alpine 9830 or 9833. This is head unit which is most talked about and a favourite too. Only thing that makes me
think away from Alpines is the absence of a CD Changer. I saw a 6 Disc changer on their web but found it too costly.

Wiring:
Unsure which one to use. Please help me with brands on this. I keep reading a lot of Belden and other names
but let me know which brands are good and also what should a car audio wiring kit carry?

I would be glad if someone could throw some light on the pricing and technicalities. I have waited for quite some time and am ready to wait more till I make up my mind to go for any audio setup. Should I also go for Dynamat door pads? I will post more queries as I come across them.

Last edited by moralfibre : 13th November 2005 at 00:37.
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Old 13th November 2005, 05:32   #2392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre
Following are some queries I have regarding a setup for my Palio 1.6:

Speakers:
GTO 606CE Comp for Front or GTO 506CE if the standard size comes out as a constraint.
GTO 936 e for the rear.
Is using components for the rear a better option than the normal 3-in-1 speakers?

Woofer:
GTO CS 1200 Tube

Can the GTO 1202D be fitted in a Tube? Will it have any better bass quality in a tube?

Amplifiers:
GTO 301.1
Power Output : 204 Watts RMS x 1 channel at 4 ohms and ≤ 1% THD + N
GTO 75.4
Power Output : 104 Watts RMS x 4 channels at 4 ohms and ≤ 1% THD + N

Which of the two amps is better? Will an Alpine amp do a better job? Any other suggestions for better Amplifier? I am still
unsure about the idea of a Monoblock amp. Any advantages over using a multi channel amp? Thats the only reason confusing me
to decide between using the above two.

I plan to use a separate Sony 502 in bridged mode for the sub? Is this a wise thing to do or I am wasting money?
Can the 502 be used in Bridged mode?

Head Unit:
Without doubt the Alpine 9830 or 9833. This is head unit which is most talked about and a favourite too. Only thing that makes me
think away from Alpines is the absence of a CD Changer. I saw a 6 Disc changer on their web but found it too costly.

Wiring:
Unsure which one to use. Please help me with brands on this. I keep reading a lot of Belden and other names
but let me know which brands are good and also what should a car audio wiring kit carry?

I would be glad if someone could throw some light on the pricing and technicalities. I have waited for quite some time and am ready to wait more till I make up my mind to go for any audio setup. Should I also go for Dynamat door pads? I will post more queries as I come across them.
well to begin with its better not to use components at the rear,so stick to ur coaxials (here preferably a 6.5'' as ur are anyway going in for a sub)..well the rears are to be used as only fillers so no point in gettin the 936's as the bass will be coming out of the sub..so get 6.5'' round ones for the rear (read GTO 636)..

not sure if the the 1202D will fit in the tube,maybe sam can shed more light on this one..personally i dont think it can be done..

well comparing the two amps 301.1 and 75.4 is not possible..because the 301.1 is a monoblock which is to be used t running a sub whereas the 75.4 is to be used to run ur front components and ur rear coaxials..well u cant use a monoblock to drive 4 speakers which if done at all will give u quite a few headaches..im sure navin will explain that in detail..

well u can use sony 502 to run the sub but when u are shelling out that much it makes sence to get a better mono..so look around and im sure u will get good monos..btw talking about amplifiers,alpine would be the first choice on this forum and then would come the rest..if u can pick up the alpine amps its like nothing to beat it..so preferably get a 4 ch amp from alpine and maybe a mono from pioneer (read 7100) to balance out ur budget..

as far as the HU goes the alpines are really good though sams views seem to lye with the pios these days..hehe sorry sam couldnt keep that one out ..


well as far as the wiring goes u can check out the wiring kit from JBL at around 2.5k odd and pick up the RCA cables from belden..the wiring should cost u around 3k..if ur using one amp dont have to worry though if ur using two amps (read a mono and a 4 ch) u will need a distribution block..that should cost u around 400..thats about it..

PS : advice u to check on the alpine speakers and those from hertz too which are in the similar price range..
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Old 13th November 2005, 08:25   #2393
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Hey McLaren thanks a lot buddy. I would have gone for Hertz speakers but they blow up my budget. The Alpines are not available with bill and warranty and I have not heard of their service network in Pune. What is a distribution block?
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Old 13th November 2005, 09:57   #2394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsjaurr
Hey guys ...........have alook at this link.

http://pub14.ezboard.com/fcaraudiota...picID=27.topic
that post was made my an individual who made just 4 posts and his 5th post was teh above link and that too 2 years back!

it maybe his personal opinion. quite funny one.

and he didnt mention about "twister " anywher
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Old 13th November 2005, 10:11   #2395
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@moralfibre: see that you get the GTO636 fixed atthe given rear pod .

Fixing any speakers on the panel at the back is prone to noise coz of vibration (panels light na and hence). Get mdf tray if you wanna fix 9x6 at the rear.

And as Mclaren said, a sub will cater to you bass needs and hence 636 would do a great job as fill-ins

about amps:

1) a four channel amp for the four speakers
a mono amp for sub

2) a four channel amp ( pio 6100/7100? .mcl what say? ); power fronts using the amp and rear using teh HU. Power sub in bridged mode from amp.

3) jbl 75.4 is good foreeh speakers not for the sub! ( not recommended by sam even)
sony 502 in bridged mode for sub

4) sony 504 for front speakers and sub ( cheapest setup). rear speakers frm HU

For cables; again as Mclaren said, thers a jbls kit for amps( 2.5k or so)

Vivek bought BOSS cable or so ; and hence i presume they are good too.

and PIX when your done with your install

new cs series from jbls are cheaper.

Last edited by jkdas : 13th November 2005 at 10:13. Reason: 'e's in my posts messed up
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Old 13th November 2005, 15:24   #2396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas

1) a four channel amp for the four speakers
a mono amp for sub

2) a four channel amp ( pio 6100/7100? .mcl what say? ); power fronts using the amp and rear using teh HU. Power sub in bridged mode from amp.

3) jbl 75.4 is good for the speakers not for the sub! ( not recommended by sam even)
sony 502 in bridged mode for sub

4) sony 504 for front speakers and sub ( cheapest setup). rear speakers frm HU

For cables; again as Mclaren said, thers a jbls kit for amps( 2.5k or so)

Vivek bought BOSS cable or so ; and hence i presume they are good too.

btw JK the pioneer 6100 is a 4ch amp whereas the 7100 is a monoblock..and it would be better to amplify all the speakers and subs with amps and not using the HU's amp..the final tonality will be much better..so given a budget u can go in for 2 amps..

coming to the GTO 75.4 its a good amp and trust me it can drive a sub quite well..its the cs 50.4 that cant handle a sub..i think u got confused on that..

unless u are really short for cash id say stick to the pio amps..will cost u around 14k both put together..try to keep away from the sony amps if u can..

well as far as boss cables go they are ok,not that good but are the best alternative to company provided speakers..

PS : btw doing my 1st install today in my alto all by myself..hope i dont blow up anything ..so pls pray..
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Old 13th November 2005, 15:32   #2397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
btw JK the pioneer 6100 is a 4ch amp whereas the 7100 is a monoblock..and it would be better to amplify all the speakers and subs with amps and not using the HU's amp..the final tonality will be much better..so given a budget u can go in for 2 amps..

coming to the GTO 75.4 its a good amp and trust me it can drive a sub quite well..its the cs 50.4 that cant handle a sub..i think u got confused on that..
.

PS : btw doing my 1st install today in my alto all by myself..hope i dont blow up anything ..so pls pray..
thanks for correcting me mate.

all the best with the install.
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Old 14th November 2005, 08:56   #2398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre
Is using components for the rear a better option than the normal 3-in-1 speakers?

Woofer:
GTO CS 1200 Tube - Can the GTO 1202D be fitted in a Tube? Will it have any better bass quality in a tube?

Amplifiers:
GTO 301.1 Power Output : 204 Watts RMS x 1 channel at 4 ohms and ≤ 1% THD + N
GTO 75.4 Power Output : 104 Watts RMS x 4 channels at 4 ohms and ≤ 1% THD + N
Which of the two amps is better?

Head Unit:
Without doubt the Alpine 9830 or 9833.

Components are always better than coax drviers.
Why?
a) one can align the tweeter to fire at the listener
b) better crossover used
c) in some cases better quality of drivers (woofer, tweeter, etc) used

I use components in the front and rear.

caeveat: if you can afford only one pair of components use them in the front no matter if you are chauffer driven or not. the difference provided by upgrading to components is more noticable in the front speakers than in the rear esp if you are self driven.

The JBL1200T and JBL 1200B use the same driver (which I assume) is the 1202D. So get the Tube or Box and save yourself the hassle. unless ofcourse you intend to adhere to Vivek's DIY tendencies.

You cant compare any 1 channel amp to any 4 channel amp. they were built for seperate purposes. Ofcouse the ideal situation is to have both using the 4 channel amp to drive the front and rear speakers and using the 1 channel amp to drive the sub.

The Alpine 9830 and 9833 have been long discontinued. They have been replaced by Alpine 9853 and 9855. These units seem to have a glitch (the sound is the same). The glitch being that if a CD is left in the unit when it car's ignition is powered off the unit refuses to eject the CD. A workaround is to connect both remote and power cables to the battery so powerig the ignition off does not kill power to the HU. I've also been told that this glitch seems to only rear it's ugly head when the internal amps in the HU are being used so usiing external amplifiers might also resolve this issue.

Power wires: 4 SWG will allow 2 amplifiers like the 75.4 and 3001. to be used.

Speaker wire: best VFM is Belden

RCA interconnect; Best VFM is intrumention wire 100/40 for the front and rear and 100/38 for the sub. You have to solder your own RCA connectors.

All of the above is my opinion only.
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Old 14th November 2005, 10:51   #2399
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Hey Navin thats great info. As I always expected. I would like to know which components I should go for? I want Good quality sound. I am getting a 9833 from a friend who has contacts with an accessory shop here so I will stick to it than have stuck CD's. About amplifiers I will stay with a 4 channel for the 2 pairs of components again which one should I go for. I listen to all genre of music. No specific taste as such. So the components and the driving amp should be flexible to any type of music from Trance to Slow Hindi.

Thanks again for the advice.
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Old 14th November 2005, 11:44   #2400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aah78
are these with the model number ODx402?
in your earlier post you've mentioned they were the thin type. i'm planning on putting the same ones on in a Zen, so just verifying.
ad
yes ad,
they seem to be good enough .
It's giving me a real front sound stage, which is better than the factory fitted speakers.
they cost me around 3K (3.1 K to be precise with B&W).
Hope that info is useful.
ak
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