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Old 5th September 2006, 22:02   #4246
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Souljah, the amps torroidal tranny looks kinda small and really poorly made. i gotta tell you a secret. about 50% of most amps budgets is just the power supply. that is what costs and this is where the maufacturer has skimped on this amp.
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Old 5th September 2006, 22:45   #4247
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Originally Posted by navin
Souljah, the amps torroidal tranny looks kinda small and really poorly made.
navinji, thats the transformer in last picture right??
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Old 5th September 2006, 23:28   #4248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0uljah
navinji, thats the transformer in last picture right??
ya it is type of transformer. normally transformer has a iron or steel core made of crc or cold rolled steel having a shape of E and I the E middle steam becomes the core and the out side are the outer side of the transformer. and the i fill in the gap off the other side of the E these type of transformer has a noise in them . when not properly made they produce hum noise......like the local made voltage stabilizer it uses this type of transformers and also genrate some amount of heat.....

the above one is torroidal type it has a ferrite core used and the wire is wounded around it.they produce less hum and does not heat as much as the iron core type and are very efficent.....

the small copper wire covered ring is the choke it is also made up of the ferrite core and it is used to filter out the noises and other stuff from the dc supply given in to the amp..

Rest navin ji will give more technical aspects also to make it more interesting and add some thing I have left out...

Last edited by low_bass_makker : 5th September 2006 at 23:39.
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Old 5th September 2006, 23:32   #4249
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Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
the above one is torroidal type it has a ferrite core used and the wire is wounded around it.they produce less hum and does not heat as much as the iron core type.......

Rest navin ji will give more technical aspects also.....
Ok... thanks LBM

So would this mean the amps going to be sucking a lot of power?
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Old 6th September 2006, 00:00   #4250
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Originally Posted by s0uljah
So would this mean the amps going to be sucking a lot of power?
normally at ideal state amps doesnot consume much power but when a bass note hits the current demand goes skyrocketing. but all comes into the picture how much the amp can handle.....the real juice comes out when there is bass track is playing with continous bass in the background not like the drum beats which comes and goes very fast but like the hip hop type .......

the toroidal core is used in the DC-DC converter....this DC-DC converts the car 12 vdc to the required output needed or as per the amp design required but the output is like this..... -24 , 0 , 24 vdc. there are three wires . the center one is the zero potential and if we take a DMM and measure across the middle and the side ones the voltage will be 24 volts and in the specifie polarity as mentioned earlier... but if we measure across the both ends then we will get 48 volts this is like the posotive and negative rails of the amp on which all the mosfets are connected.....
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Old 6th September 2006, 00:27   #4251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0uljah

Bring on your opinions, rip it up !!!
here is a little from my side....

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Old 6th September 2006, 00:54   #4252
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Default soomoku again!

Hey audiophanatic, I too was curious about soomoku for same reasons (VFM) ... and in case you have gone through the concerned thread, you must have already noticed that.

I did talk to Mr. Palesha... he has promised me to send his product catalogs and look into the matter of their website (www.palesha.com) which is down for sometime.

I have also visited a dealer in bangalore, he happens to be dealing with only high-end systems (both branded and non-branded, I mean those among who's-who in audio as well as not-well-known types of brands!). I believe the person who had started soomoku thread had observed the same in Hyderabad. I am talking about Bangalore, and think it shouldn't be merely a coincident. Like what Vikram had mentioned, I found that guy to be highly knowledgeable. He too agreed that many speakers by palesha electronics are excellent VFM (not just car, home as well), before I could say anything. The moment I asked him about soomoku, he responded with a smile, "you seem to have done enough of research!". He only had 10" soomoku sub model with classD amp (so called digital amp or classX). Have not listened to it yet though. I am not an expert, but in the first glance I could notice a few signs which talk a bit about its quality-
-the cabinate was big, rigid and tapered shape, did not create drum like beat upon knoking it. Sound could easily damp away (signs of lack of resonaces)
-the cone was sturdy with good rubber surround. Just pushed it near outer edge and the whole cone could move easily without getting folded, or tilted on any side.
-it has powerful and efficient classD amp (less drain on battery) with nice to have controls for cutoff, 0-180 deg phase shift and a remote knob to control bass level

I will update, once I listen to it. For that he quoted around 10-11K (don't remember exact figure, for 12" it will be little higher he told)

Here is another independent advice by an old audio nut who believes in just stereo listening rather than home theater (typical of oldies!). He has recommended may indian speaker brands including cadence and lithos, palesha being one of them.
http://www.mouthshut.com/review/Tips...m-39787-1.html

Navinji, I have one question for you which I wasn't clear about in soomoku thread- have you listened to the same model with 12 incher and class-d amp? (sorry, posting it here since the original thread has been closed for a while)

talking about cheap products in general, let me share my opinion:
Indian- in speakers as long as driver and amp is sourced from a reputed brand, enclosures can be easily built locally with much lesser overall cost, especially due to availability of design softwares. Thats what all DIY guys do. If any indian company does that commercially and make good products available at a fraction of an equivalent branded one, I would grab the opportunity.
Chinese- we have preconceived notions about all chinese being worthless. But I belive it has emerged as a global manufacturing hub, and they do have good quality products too. Most of the big companies throughout the world outsource a lot of critical componets from chinese companies to cut costs. I wouldn't be surprised if I open a branded item just to find many components being OEM from china
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Old 6th September 2006, 09:49   #4253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
huh, esteem where did that come from? Audio Fanatic is around.

Cadence does use their DS series components for less audiophile and more rugged enviroments. a gym would be such an install. The DS has a 8" or 6" woofer (depeding on the model DS or Arita) and could use some help with the last octave.

Still the 12" woofer sold by Palesha (to he public) might not be exactly the same machine used by Cadence. Palesha might have sourced a quicker 12" woofer for Cadence as the woofers I have heard so far would distract from the sound of the Cadence DS (8") which i have heard. Remember I said might. I have not spoken to Ajay or Mahendra about this relationship and never will. It is their business not mine.
The sub that i saw at the Cadence installation was supposedly the latest series introduced by palesha. They are powered by Class D amps. I found the bass to be really good. Tight and quick. High end stuff..

From what i have been reading in this forum, Navin seems be knowledgeble when it comes to audio.

So i think he must have gotten his rather negative opinion from the older subs. You have to check this one out Navin. Really.
The cost of the 12" sub was 16k (not the car sub). At 16k i think it is a steal ( even at 25K it would be good buy..honest)..You have to see the crap that brands like Onkyo and warfedale are selling in the 25k price range.

In all fairness, a velodyne 12 incher certainly sounds better but then it is priced in the bracket over 45k. Navin .... please please check this one out. It is a gym called FAB or fabs that is on the floor above shoppers stop in pune.
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Old 6th September 2006, 11:33   #4254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
Souljah, the amps torroidal tranny looks kinda small and really poorly made. i gotta tell you a secret. about 50% of most amps budgets is just the power supply. that is what costs and this is where the maufacturer has skimped on this amp.
Exactly. The power supply. Soul, most "high end" amplifiers will have an oversized power supply with output capability beyond whats need to put out the rated output. Compare a 100w x 4 Alpine and a 75w x 4 Audison and you will understand that rated power isnt everything.

As far as this amp is concerned, I would suggest you use this only for sub duty as I dont expect great SQ from it. But it would do a decent job of thumping around your sub. We are finally going to be in Bangalore last week of this month. Will check out your install then...
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Old 6th September 2006, 11:39   #4255
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Note: The mouthshut link that I had mentioned does not seem to have any mention of palesha or soomoku. It was edited very recently (Aug 30), but if I trust my memory it was there earlier. Anyway, here is another link to car specific article by the same author (and it does have mention of soomoku, at least at the time of posting)
http://www.mouthshut.com/review/Advi...o-77876-1.html
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Old 6th September 2006, 11:44   #4256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by santosh.s
-the cabinate was big, rigid and tapered shape,
-the cone was sturdy with good rubber surround.

I will update, once I listen to it. For that he quoted around 10-11K (don't remember exact figure, for 12" it will be little higher he told)
URL="http://www.mouthshut.com/review/Tips_on_maintaining_a_Sound_System-39787-1.html"]http://www.mouthshut.com/review/Tips_on_maintaining_a_Sound_System-39787-1.html[/url]

Navinji, I have one question for you which I wasn't clear about in soomoku thread- have you listened to the same model with 12 incher and class-d amp? (sorry, posting it here since the original thread has been closed for a while)

Chinese- we have preconceived notions about all chinese being worthless.
I dont think the the 12" Sumoku subs I heard had class D amps but I did not ask Mr. Palesha that question. My attention was occupied by the BOOM and I was trying to figure out how much of that BOOM should be attributed to the install and how much to the subwoofer itself. The subs themselves were rigidly built and looked sturdy.

Like I said before Mr. Palesha did promise that he would introduce better sounding subs in the future and it could very well be that these are the subs you have heard. However I am very conservative in giving recomendations and in categorically rubbishing any product. I can recommend only those products where I have had CONSISTENT good expereince and Rubbish only those where I have had CONSISTENT bad expereince. Even so if you read my earlier posts you wil notice that I have not categorically rubbished Sumoku and have mentioned that the subs I heard were about a year old.

Also the second time I heard the Sumoku (Home Theater) subwoofers I had just come from a room that had Quads via a room that had a pair of Manger Zerobox 109. So every "BOOM" made me flinch more! :-)

As far as VFM goes I'd rather invest the 10-11K in slightly larger speakers (Home audio) and for 11K one can get a 3K Sony 552 amp and a 8K JBL 12" box that might offer as good if not better sound.

Lastly almost everyone is using China as a manufacturing center so it is not the "made in China" label that affects my judgement but the quality of the engineering. I do believe that Mr. Palesha is interested in making better subs and speakers. After all it is men like him and Rajiv "Cream" Dsouza (Lithos), Anandya Mukherjee (Sonodyne), Shyam Bajaj (Norge), Prashant Damle (Pandam), Damodar and Manas Ratha (Peerless etc..) and their peers who will push audio to the Indian masses. Ajay Shirke (Cadence) and Sushil Anand (Nova) etc. cater to a much smaller audience. I forget to mention our very own B&T, Sam K (when he is not cavorting with the ladies), Gunbir/JB (autophile), etc..
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Old 6th September 2006, 12:33   #4257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir
Exactly. The power supply. Soul, most "high end" amplifiers will have an oversized power supply with output capability beyond whats need to put out the rated output. Compare a 100w x 4 Alpine and a 75w x 4 Audison and you will understand that rated power isnt everything.
here some audison amps with specs and inside look of the amps...(all taken from http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/)

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Audison_LRx_1.400/
1 x 300W @ 4 Ohms (12V - 0.3% THD)
1 x 350W @ 4 Ohms (13.8V - 1% THD)
1 x 650W @ 2 Ohms (13.8V - 1% THD)
1 x 900W @ 1 Ohm (13.8V - 1% THD)



http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Audison_VRx2.150/



some alpine...
http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Alpine_MRV-1507/



http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Alpine_MRV-1005/


the audison are way ahead of the alpine in amps ....but alpine also make good amps ........
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Old 6th September 2006, 15:14   #4258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
here some audison amps with specs and inside look of the amps...(all taken from http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/)

http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Audison_LRx_1.400/
1 x 300W @ 4 Ohms (12V - 0.3% THD)
1 x 350W @ 4 Ohms (13.8V - 1% THD)
1 x 650W @ 2 Ohms (13.8V - 1% THD)
1 x 900W @ 1 Ohm (13.8V - 1% THD)
http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Audison_VRx2.150/
some alpine...
http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Alpine_MRV-1507/
http://ampguts.realmofexcursion.com/Alpine_MRV-1005/
the audison are way ahead of the alpine in amps ....but alpine also make good amps ........
Yes, the audison amps are passionately designed by Audison's own Chief Engineer, who also happens to be one of the owners of the company. To him, each amp is a piece of art, designed with love for music, every component is chosen with care, and they are built in Audison's own factory in Italy, where each amp is tested to exceed their standards.

BTW, have you had a 'dekho' of the New LRx AB amps... just when we thought they couldnt do better, they made these...
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Old 6th September 2006, 15:22   #4259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunbir
'dekho' of the New LRx AB amps..
which one are these.......any links or they are the normal LRx series....
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Old 6th September 2006, 15:30   #4260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by low_bass_makker
which one are these.......any links or they are the normal LRx series....
I guess they are a new range of AB class amps.
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