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Old 15th March 2007, 18:23   #5521
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By the way sub is a Dual coil 4 Ohm/coil. Amnot planning to invest a lot right now. I can do it step by step so please keep that as a criteria.
You will need an amp anyway, to drive the subs. Maybe you can get a reasonable mono amp (like the Pio D510 or the JBL CS300.1) and drive both subs from it (the subs will be quite underpowered, but they will give some bass). I think the CS300.1 is 12K and the D510 is 10K (not very sure of these prices, sorry).

Later, you can get another identical mono amp. Then you will have 2 amps, one amp powering each sub. This will get the subs to give good output (they will get about double the power they used to get). You'll need to get a Distribution Block and some more wire at that time, so you can power the two amps. If you do plan for this, I'd suggest getting 2G power wire now (and not 4G) so you don't need to rewire later.

And you can skip the sealed box idea, and go for ported boxes. Subs will be louder in ported boxes (with the same amp). You won't need as much power here (as a sealed box needs) to drive the subs properly. The bass will be less tighter than sealed boxes, but if you get the box well designed (with tighter bass in mind), they subs will kick tight enough.

Like I said in my earlier post, you should get front speakers sometime in between all this. If your rear co-axials are 6.5" or lesser (and not ovals) maybe you can just move them to the front and be done with it.

Last edited by hydrashok : 15th March 2007 at 18:29.
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Old 15th March 2007, 18:53   #5522
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1) Fronts: 6.5" comps (JBL CS2165c or Hertz DSK165 or other options from Blau/Alpine) = About 5500/-
2) Rears: 6.5" co-axials (JBL CS2165 or Hertz DCX165 or other options from Blau/Alpine) = About 3500/-
3) Speaker Amp: JBL GTO75.4 = 13,000/-
4) Sub: JBL GT4-12 12" sub driver + custom ported box = 5000/- + 1500/- = 6500/-
5) Sub Amp: JBL CS300.1 = 11,000 (approx.)
6) Wiring (Power + RCA; Power - Stinger/Twister/Scosche/Audison; RCA - Audison): 6000/-

TOTAL = About 45,500/- (All with B&W; Discounts should bring this down a bit)

HU: I've not included a HU here, as you have a HU in the Scorpio already. It must be a Kenwood (they used to be the OEM). The HU probably has only 1 preout, so you might need to use a Y-adapter for RCAs to the 75.4, and then take the pre-out (output for daisy-chaining the amps) from the 75.4 to the 300.1.
Boot space: You will need the sub for best output in that big cabin. If you get a sub, you will lose out a bit on boot-space. An option is to mount the sub on the tailgate
EDIT: If you go for JBL CS series speakers, maybe a CS 60.4 amp (@8000/-) might do in place of the GTO 75.4 if you want to cut the budget down.
HI sam kapasi,
The above mentioned setup is over my budget ie 40k without including dampers and head unit.So please help me with these queries
1)I want your help to check if the above mentioned audio setup is the best available in the market under 40k for scorpio crde slx 8 seater
2)If better setup available, strictly under 40k (including amps,speakers,woofers,wiring,dampers,head unit) tell me the brand name and price
3)Is the head unit in the scorpio crde slx is good?Else tell me a good HU with brand name and price
4)I hear music like safri duo, system of down,linkin park etc
5)budget is 40k(including dampers and wiring)
6)please tell good subwoofers with less boot space consumption
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Old 15th March 2007, 19:08   #5523
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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
LBM should be along soon to give more (= better) tips on a dual sub setup.

no sir I am NO_bass_makker nowdays what suggestion I can give...........I am in a condition of having 2400 X 1 at 2 ohms or 1200 x 2 at 1 ohms in hand but of no use since I have no subs to drive.........
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Old 15th March 2007, 20:12   #5524
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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
You will need an amp anyway, to drive the subs. Maybe you can get a reasonable mono amp (like the Pio D510 or the JBL CS300.1) and drive both subs from it (the subs will be quite underpowered, but they will give some bass). I think the CS300.1 is 12K and the D510 is 10K (not very sure of these prices, sorry).

Later, you can get another identical mono amp. Then you will have 2 amps, one amp powering each sub. This will get the subs to give good output (they will get about double the power they used to get). You'll need to get a Distribution Block and some more wire at that time, so you can power the two amps. If you do plan for this, I'd suggest getting 2G power wire now (and not 4G) so you don't need to rewire later.

And you can skip the sealed box idea, and go for ported boxes. Subs will be louder in ported boxes (with the same amp). You won't need as much power here (as a sealed box needs) to drive the subs properly. The bass will be less tighter than sealed boxes, but if you get the box well designed (with tighter bass in mind), they subs will kick tight enough.

Like I said in my earlier post, you should get front speakers sometime in between all this. If your rear co-axials are 6.5" or lesser (and not ovals) maybe you can just move them to the front and be done with it.
Wow now thats some quick response. Can you tell me the main difference between ported and sealed enclosures. Does porting just mean making a well defined hole by the side of the box ?
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Old 16th March 2007, 10:03   #5525
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The above mentioned setup is over my budget ie 40k....
2)If better setup available, strictly under 40k...tell me the brand name and price...4)I hear music like safri duo, system of down,linkin park etc...6)please tell good subwoofers with less boot space consumption
I'm not Sam but I am his Uncle (you can call me Bob). :-)

a) read post 5522 it will explain in short why bass needs big boxes. If you want a long explantion we'd be happy to oblige but I think your time would be better spent listening to music that reading that.

b) The budgets mentioned in 5522 do add up to 40K (on the low side). As you can see from that post about 20-25% of your budget will be consumed by damping, wires and install costs. The reason thisis so is becuase the Scorpio is notorious for it's panel resonances and you do want a Sub. A Tail gate sub will rattle even more and hence require better damping.

c) If you want brand recomendations Hydra has alrready listed a few. Both JBL and Hertz are good barnds. If you read the post you quoted fully you will notice that Hydra has mentioned a cheaper amp and JBL's CS series. I would seriously consider Hydra's recomendations. For example:

HU: 8K - Pioneer (without B&W), Blaupunkt, Kenwood
Amp: 7K (Pio 6100 is your best bet here use it to drive your sub and front components.
Speakers: Front 6" components and rear 6" coax: 9K for JBLs CS series.
Sub: tailgate sub : 6K for a JBL 10".
Damping: 6K for Fonomat or Wurth. Dynamat is a bit more.
Wires and install: 4K Audison will sell you good wire at 1K per pair.

This is NOT the definite bible but purely a starting point. There are many other brands out there that should be heard. Please do yourself a favour and listen; you'll learn what you like.
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Old 16th March 2007, 10:52   #5526
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Wow now thats some quick response. Can you tell me the main difference between ported and sealed enclosures. Does porting just mean making a well defined hole by the side of the box ?
Box size and type depends on the T/S paremets of the woofer concerned and on the enviroment/location. Some woofers can produce decent sound in either ported or sealed boxes (we wont discuss other box types here).

Compairing 2 8" woofer to 1 12" woofer or 2 12" woofer to 1 18" woofer is not the right thing to do. There are too many other parameters that need to be considered first.

My understanding is that you have 2 12" DVC subs each voice coil being 4 ohms. In that case the only sensible way to wire those coils is series / parallel and that will give an net impedance of 4 ohms. Using a 300.1 to drive this sombo will mean that each sub willget only 75W (the 300.1 is 150W at 4 ohms).

A Pio 6100 which is a 65W x 4 ch amp that can be bridged will produce 150-200W or so per bridged channel (hence each woofer will get 150-200W) and would do a better job at this stage. But if you intend to add a second amp later this does not make much sense.

The Pio D510M puts out 300W at 4 ohms. That means each woofer will get 150W for now. When you get your second amp you can give each woofer 600W as you can wire each DVC sub in parallel and drive each of the two D510M into 2ohmd loads.
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Old 16th March 2007, 12:18   #5527
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Box size and type depends on the T/S paremets of the woofer concerned and on the enviroment/location. Some woofers can produce decent sound in either ported or sealed boxes (we wont discuss other box types here).
Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Compairing 2 8" woofer to 1 12" woofer or 2 12" woofer to 1 18" woofer is not the right thing to do. There are too many other parameters that need to be considered first.

My understanding is that you have 2 12" DVC subs each voice coil being 4 ohms. In that case the only sensible way to wire those coils is series / parallel and that will give an net impedance of 4 ohms. Using a 300.1 to drive this sombo will mean that each sub willget only 75W (the 300.1 is 150W at 4 ohms).

A Pio 6100 which is a 65W x 4 ch amp that can be bridged will produce 150-200W or so per bridged channel (hence each woofer will get 150-200W) and would do a better job at this stage. But if you intend to add a second amp later this does not make much sense.

The Pio D510M puts out 300W at 4 ohms. That means each woofer will get 150W for now. When you get your second amp you can give each woofer 600W as you can wire each DVC sub in parallel and drive each of the two D510M into 2ohmd loads.
Am not much of a boom guy and am not a hardcore loudness freak . So tell me your opinion on installing twin subs . Is it recomended or is it going to be just another show piece ? What I want is tigh bass with a good amount of depth to it. So what better ? Installing a single one or twin one ? I dont intend to spend a lot but at the same time I prefer spending on the right stuff. My amp budget is anywhere near to 12-18 K. I dont mind going for single sub set up in case the gain interms of bass depth isnt that great . So lemme summarise my points.
  • I need tight bass
  • Am not keen on going for twin subs if its too expensive or if its another show thing.
  • Whats your opinion if I try powering sub from a four channel amp in the bridged mode ?as the other channel can be used for a nice set of components.Will the power be enough for the sub ? Or should I get a mono amp and a two channel amp for the components (Which will take another 4 months to be bought)
  • Budget for Amp is 12-18.
Just a Query
? Can I connect the two voice coils in parellel , making it 2 ohms and then add the two subs in series so that the toal effective impedence becomes 4 ohms ? Incase I do this how do I decide on powering these ? is a 300 RMS mono amp @ 4 ohms good enough for powering the entire setup ?(Sub is rated at 300RMS )

Last edited by maxbhp : 16th March 2007 at 12:28.
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Old 16th March 2007, 12:19   #5528
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Is this thing available here & if it is , how much does it cost ?
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Old 16th March 2007, 12:47   #5529
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Originally Posted by maxbhp View Post
Am not much of a boom guy and am not a hardcore loudness freak . So tell me your opinion on installing twin subs . Is it recomended or is it going to be just another show piece ? What I want is tigh bass with a good amount of depth to it. So what better ? Installing a single one or twin one ? I dont intend to spend a lot but at the same time I prefer spending on the right stuff. My amp budget is anywhere near to 12-18 K. I dont mind going for single sub set up in case the gain interms of bass depth isnt that great ....
Max, have you bought 2 subs already?

If you have not, I'd recommend going for one 12".

a) I feel one 12" powered by a good mono amp giving the sub its max nominal power (300w RMS in this case) would give better quality bass than two subs being fed half their nominal rated power.

b) Being saddled with 2 subs is no small task. You'll need a very powerful mono or two powerful monos to give them their due -- Mucho Dinero. And you have to pay for one extra sub too. And then there is the loss of boot space (if that matters to your kind of use).

c) I feel a single sub gives better opportunity for gradual expansion & upgradation. With one sub, (as you have mentioned in you post) you can get a good 4-ch amp (like the JBL GTO 75.4 @ 13K) now and drive the front speakers and sub now. Later you can get a good mono amp and drive the sub with it (with more power), and use the 4-ch amp to drive the front & rear speakers. With 2 subs, even the upgradation path is costly, and you'll spend more in the long run.

Or, you can settle for good a 2-ch amp now for the sub alone, and be done with it. (But you wouldn't be amping the speakers this way).

I think if you're not looking for a very SPLish setup, 2 x 12" will not suit you well. You will get loud bass. But the bass will not be so tight. For tight bass with two subs, I'd go for 2 x 10" (a la KB100). Or if you still want the loudness of 12", you'd need to buy two true-blue SQ subs to get them to play tight. Like I said above, mucho dinero. And feed them a lot of power in a sealed box.

And if you do plan on the two 12", I think Navin's idea of a Pio 6100 would be better than a less powerful mono. Later, maybe you can get a powerful Mono/4-ch (back to square one ) for the subs and use the Pio 4-ch Amp for the front & rear speakers.
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Old 17th March 2007, 13:52   #5530
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Hi,

Which is the best and most effictive way to connect an iPod to your car audio system? I believe there are the Harmon Kardon Drive & Play available for INR 10000/-. Is the drive & play still required even if the head unit is iPod ready?

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Old 17th March 2007, 20:20   #5531
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you either buy the drive + play or if your HU is ipod ready then you need to buy the Ipod adapter from the same manufacturer.

An alternative way to connect the ipod is through the aux in of the HU. the controls will be through the ipod and not HU in that case.
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Old 17th March 2007, 23:37   #5532
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An alternative way to connect the ipod is through the aux in of the HU. the controls will be through the ipod and not HU in that case.
This is probably the cheapest & best way to do it.
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Old 18th March 2007, 18:21   #5533
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you either buy the drive + play or if your HU is ipod ready then you need to buy the Ipod adapter from the same manufacturer.

An alternative way to connect the ipod is through the aux in of the HU. the controls will be through the ipod and not HU in that case.

Hi Vid,

Will this method of connection also charge the iPod at the same time?

Epic
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Old 18th March 2007, 22:44   #5534
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@ Epic, the Aux-in cable won't charge the iPod. You'll need a dedicated car-charger for that. You can pick up a quality cigarette-lighter charger (from YES or some good brand) for about 1K.
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Old 19th March 2007, 11:24   #5535
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Max, have you bought 2 subs already?

If you have not, I'd recommend going for one 12".

a) I feel one 12" powered by a good mono amp giving the sub its max nominal power (300w RMS in this case) would give better quality bass than two subs being fed half their nominal rated power.

b) Being saddled with 2 subs is no small task. You'll need a very powerful mono or two powerful monos to give them their due -- Mucho Dinero. And you have to pay for one extra sub too. And then there is the loss of boot space (if that matters to your kind of use).

c) I feel a single sub gives better opportunity for gradual expansion & upgradation. With one sub, (as you have mentioned in you post) you can get a good 4-ch amp (like the JBL GTO 75.4 @ 13K) now and drive the front speakers and sub now. Later you can get a good mono amp and drive the sub with it (with more power), and use the 4-ch amp to drive the front & rear speakers. With 2 subs, even the upgradation path is costly, and you'll spend more in the long run.

Or, you can settle for good a 2-ch amp now for the sub alone, and be done with it. (But you wouldn't be amping the speakers this way).

I think if you're not looking for a very SPLish setup, 2 x 12" will not suit you well. You will get loud bass. But the bass will not be so tight. For tight bass with two subs, I'd go for 2 x 10" (a la KB100). Or if you still want the loudness of 12", you'd need to buy two true-blue SQ subs to get them to play tight. Like I said above, mucho dinero. And feed them a lot of power in a sealed box.

And if you do plan on the two 12", I think Navin's idea of a Pio 6100 would be better than a less powerful mono. Later, maybe you can get a powerful Mono/4-ch (back to square one ) for the subs and use the Pio 4-ch Amp for the front & rear speakers.
hello Hydra , I have decided to go for Single sub setup. Had a brief study on Isobaric set up but I guess I need to know a bit more to start with that. I have decided to build the enclosure myself. Please educate me on enclosure measurements . What I want is clear bass with a bit of depth. can you enlighten me on the same ?

Last edited by maxbhp : 19th March 2007 at 11:26.
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