Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th April 2007, 12:36   #5686
Senior - BHPian
 
zenx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,086
Thanked: 74 Times
Default

Yeah, have had to up the budget to about 18k already Blore bhpians - any volunteers ?
Yeah, I did think there was too much in terms of the higher frequencies - but playing around with the equlizer setting did help a bit. Yes I did check out the Hertz (and some ppl suggested Bostons) but could not hear them. Yes, vocals, midranges and a mild soft bass would be it.
Whats the primary diff in ovals/round ones for the rear - could avoid cutting/spacers unless theres a big diff. I'm saying this only cause all the speakers in my home theatre are round, and of course theres 3 but it sounds very "natural". I'm sory if my vocab is off the mark, I do play music and understand harmonics and octaves, but the technicalities lose me quick.
zenx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 13:03   #5687
Senior - BHPian
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In my Office
Posts: 2,528
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenx View Post
Whats the primary diff in ovals/round ones for the rear - could avoid cutting/spacers unless theres a big diff. I'm saying this only cause all the speakers in my home theatre are round, and of course theres 3 but it sounds very "natural".
Ovals are used because in a car environment, space is tight. We only generally get a narrow area on which to install speakers in a car (esp. in the rear). To get more bass from a speaker, we need more cone surface area. [And for best stereo effect, we need to install the speakers as far apart (towards the ends of the sides of the car) as possible]. But a bigger round speaker may not fit on [the corners of] a stock rear-parcel shelf (or other location).

So, the shape is stretched to an oval so that we get more cone surface area, as well as a smaller (narrower) install footprint. This narrow install footprint can be anywhere in the car, not just the rear parcel shelf. A 6x9 has the approximate cone surface area of an 8" woofer. We won't be able to fit an 8" woofer in each corner of the rear parcel shelf, right? Some manufacturers like Ford use a smaller oval size, a 5x7".

Some purists say that a proper round speaker will give a better overall response than an oval speaker. I'd read quite a few such arguments on various forums long back. [Maybe we can all fight over it here too. I'm not tech enough, so I'll stand back & listen ]. I guess this is why in the home environment there are no ovals, just rounds. No space issues -- just sound quality maximisation issues.

The reason I mentioned ovals for your rear is that you don't plan for a sub. So the only way to get some decent bass would be to use ovals. If you do plan for a sub sometime, a 6.5" round speaker would a better (and overall money-wise) choice.

Don't cut your rear parcel shelf for ovals if the current provision allows for only rounds. Just use spacers. You'll be able to get ovals in there. There will be a difference in bass response between 6.5" coaxials and 6x9 coaxials. The 6x9s will give better bass.

Your home speaker setup has 3 round speakers in the same box? That means you probably have a 3-way system. Nice! They would sound quite good! [Shameless self-promotion -- check out my TBHP Garage. You'll see 3-ways there too].

Last edited by hydrashok : 8th April 2007 at 13:06.
hydrashok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 13:26   #5688
Senior - BHPian
 
zenx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,086
Thanked: 74 Times
Default

Thanks again for a detailed education-of-the-novice!
Hmm, am getting tempted to go with 6.5" inch (components?) at the rear too.
And add an amp/sub later, or if budget permits (lotsa other redos - so gotta figure out total costs) So far, have not liked any of the 6x9s I've heard - but that does not include the Hertz ones, only the JBLs, Sonys etc, i.e. setup rather horridly I'd guess.
Again, loking for Bangalorean volunteers to enlighten me....
zenx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 14:02   #5689
Senior - BHPian
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In my Office
Posts: 2,528
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

If you prefer 6.5"s, go for co-axials in the rear. You really don't need components in the rear (you're sitting in the front, right?).

As for Bangy boys, try posting here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/team-b...ets-bangy.html
hydrashok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 14:06   #5690
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: BLR
Posts: 2,222
Thanked: 10 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Quick doubt: Boston ovals and components, how are these?
Depends on which series.

We had the entry level stuff (6x9 - fx93, 5.25" front comps, cant remember the model) and ran them off an Alpine f240 for a short time but my cousin was not happy and he upgraded soon. Even I personally feel for the price its better to go with some other options.

On the other hand bostons premium stuff is supposed to really sing, but Iv had no first hand experience.
s0uljah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 15:35   #5691
Senior - BHPian
 
Bass&Trouble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,742
Thanked: 64 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
Have read that the remote (power antenna) output of the HU to the amp should have a relay unit (preferable) or a fuse. This is to prevent damage to the remote output switching transistor in the HU in the event of high current flow due to amp failure or a short circuit. I guess this should be done at the amplifier end of the connection but request confirmation from the gurus.
Thanks.
Remote lead shorting can cause the head unit to malfunction. The current in the remote line is very low. Maybe you can check this with an ammeter with the player running. I think a 0.5A fuse should be enough, do it at the head unit end. Not much sense doing it close to the amplifier.
Bass&Trouble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 15:54   #5692
BHPian
 
nura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 582
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Remote lead shorting can cause the head unit to malfunction. The current in the remote line is very low. Maybe you can check this with an ammeter with the player running. I think a 0.5A fuse should be enough, do it at the head unit end. Not much sense doing it close to the amplifier.
Thanks, Bass&Trouble. Would the same location be appropriate for the relay too? And why is the relay a better option than the fuse?
nura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 16:53   #5693
Senior - BHPian
 
zenx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,086
Thanked: 74 Times
Default

Pioneer TS-W251R 10inches Subwoofers
Shop Online; Gift in India: * Brand New ORIGINAL Pioneer TS-W251R 10inches Subwoofers Subs 1200W* Automobiles* Car Electronics* Car Speakers, Subwoofers, Boxes Buy mobile phones Gift Flowers Buy Indian Apparel Buy Books in India Buy Cameras
Any good ? Can HUs drive subs directly ? (Sorry if this is another dumb noob question)
zenx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 19:23   #5694
Senior - BHPian
 
Bass&Trouble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,742
Thanked: 64 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nura View Post
Thanks, Bass&Trouble. Would the same location be appropriate for the relay too? And why is the relay a better option than the fuse?
Relay? What for?

I didn't understand the need for a relay. The relay is inside the amp, that activates when it senses a signal from the remote lead.
Bass&Trouble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 23:32   #5695
Senior - BHPian
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In my Office
Posts: 2,528
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Nope. Subs can't be driven properly by the HU. Pio did have some HU that claimed to have some direct sub-drive (discussed here in the ICE section someplace) but that was all some marketing song and dance. You need an amp to drive a sub, period.

Is your budget/plan getting out of hand? You'll need at least 10K to add a sub (sub + box + amp + wiring). At least. Better done at about 16K minimum if you want to get something that sounds good. And an OHC needs a bit of damping to take a sub, and that will be another 3K at least. Since the sub will be in the boot, you had best get a 12", and not a 10". And considering your taste, maybe a Pio entry-level sub (= Boom Boom) is not exactly for you. A JBL GT4-12 would be good.

I'd suggest that you do the current upgrade (HU + speakers), wait for a bit and then do the sub and everything else as an upgrade later. Else you'll end up buying less-than-good stuff now, just to squeeze everything into a tight budget and regret everything later. And in any case I'm sure you need to keep the budget on a leash, considering all the other stuff you're getting done to the car.

Sorry for sounding like I'm giving a lecture, but this is just a nudge. Please don't take it the wrong way. Your money, your call
hydrashok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2007, 23:38   #5696
Senior - BHPian
 
zenx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,086
Thanked: 74 Times
Default

hydrashok, the lecture's most welcome! Helps clear up the befuddled mind. What you said about not spending money on a less than optimal sub makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
So - HU with 2/3 preouts (how critical are 3?), front components, rear 6.5" speakers. Add amp and sub later if needed. 8+6+4 now ?
zenx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2007, 00:02   #5697
Senior - BHPian
 
hydrashok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: In my Office
Posts: 2,528
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenx View Post
So - HU with 2/3 preouts (how critical are 3?), front components, rear 6.5" speakers. Add amp and sub later if needed. 8+6+4 now ?


Well, if you plan for a sub later, getting a 3 pre-out HU would be nice (maximum control over the sub and the amp driving the sub), but not absolutely essential. You may not get a 3 pre-out HU for 8K and don't break the bank just for 3 pre-outs.

Even 2 pre-outs will be ok. Esp. with most Pio HUs (with 2 pre-outs), you can actually switch the rear pre-out to sub-out mode. So running the fronts and a sub from a 4-ch amp will make a lot of economic sense (without any loss of features/functions). The rear speakers can be run off the HU. Alternatively, you can also keep the front & rear speakers running off the HU and get a 2-ch amp/mono amp (for a sub), fed by the sub-out.

8 + 6 + 4 should do it now.

Last edited by hydrashok : 9th April 2007 at 00:03.
hydrashok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2007, 11:41   #5698
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,196
Thanked: 3,622 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johy View Post
Thanks, I have been able to fine tune my bass...noticed that the installer had turned the bass boost all the way to 12db....I will need to get some damping work done in the future.

Lastly, do you think putting more glasswool will help? ...I am also toying with the two 8" sub idea - will talk to my vendor.
So other than turning down the bass youdid nothing else?

Glass wool should be about 1-2 lbs per cu. ft. Anymore and it is too much. I Staple it to the walls.

Let me know if you prefer 2 8" subs to a 12". You might notice that you loose some low end extention and get some mid bass slam.
navin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2007, 13:37   #5699
BHPian
 
johy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Siliguri
Posts: 835
Thanked: 369 Times
Default

Hi Navin Sir,

After playing around with various permutations and combinations this is what my present settings are. The car being one of the few places where I am actually listen to music, I wanted the best I could get (within my budget) and I must admit am pretty satisfied and proud now.

Settings:

1) Turned down bass boost (from the amp) down from 12 db to around round about 4 db or so - as above.

2) Loudness (compensates for deficiencies in the low- and high-sound ranges at low volume) to mid. Whenever I need a bit more 'thump,' I turn the loudness from mid to high. Or from mid to low, when my tympanic membranes are tired.

3) Subwoofer cut-off frequency to 80 (-2) Hz.

4) HPF on and at 50 Hz.

5) Bass Frequency (for level adjustment) - not really sure what it does to 40 (+1), bass is equal to treble under these settings.

6) Compression and BMX functions of the HU: I have set it off. The manual says "Using COMP and BMX functions let you adjust the sound playback quality of this player. Each of the functions has a two-step adjustment. The COMP function balances the output of louder and softer sounds at higher volumes. BMX controls sound reverberations to give playback a fuller sound." I just found that the sound (of the bass) was best with both of them off.

The bass seems just right for a wide variety of music (Classic Country to Rock to Mozart). Also, thankfully you can't hear much of the 'boom' when you are outside the car (for passersby) - and I sure like this.

Impression/Plan

1) Bass can probably be tighter - not sure if the Wagon R really is more suited for a smaller diameter sub like 10"? Have not tried out the two 8" idea as yet - I will probably run this setup for a while now as it is.

2) The Wagon R is not the ideal car for ICE - especially not for the Boom variety -- I will need damping done in the future.

3) I am contemplating a HU upgrade soon. I feel it will improve the sound quality. I can pass on the present HU (Pio 5850) to my brother who recently bought a Swift. I am looking at the blaus for a possible buy.

4) I am trying to get genuine Audison/Monster interconnects - I am using local (read fake) ones right now.

3) I thought I could play the music now and then with the bass turned off. I realized I just can't - I am addicted to the boom now!

Thanks once again for all your inputs.

Last edited by johy : 9th April 2007 at 13:43.
johy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2007, 22:24   #5700
BHPian
 
nura's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 582
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
Relay? What for?

I didn't understand the need for a relay. The relay is inside the amp, that activates when it senses a signal from the remote lead.
I got the information from here [FONT=Arial][FONT=&quot]http://www.bcae1.com/[/FONT] (Directory 23 - Amplifiers and Directory 36 - Relays). [/FONT]
nura is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Cayenne" we "XC-eed" in our "Endeavour" to "Safari"? Taking powerful metal off-road SS-Traveller 4x4 Excursions 55 10th November 2016 22:56
sub enclosure advice from audio gurus clipto333 In-Car Entertainment 22 4th January 2007 11:29
Please Read This Thread *Before* Posting in the "What Car?" Section adya33 What Car? 0 12th July 2006 19:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 16:16.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks