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Old 24th August 2005, 17:07   #586
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I have a Zen with the following setup:

Pioneer HU - KEH 7 Series. (The blue display one)
Pioneer 12" Subwoofer with VCCS
Pioneer CDX P1270 - 12 CD Changer
Pioneer 3 way speaker (2 nos.)
Denon DPC 40.1 front speakers
Sony 444 Amplifier (4 Channel)
A Boombox enclosure for the Sub and 2 Speakers (Made by a normal non tech person in Milan subway)
I am selling off my Zen in a while and will be using a Palio which doesn't have a music system yet..I am planning to transfer the entire system into the Palio except the boom box.
- Could you suggest alternative upgrades to get better sound quality.
- Is this a good setup for a Palio.
- Should I enclose the Sub in a box or leave it on the tray. (If a box what size should I go for?) The current box is totally disproportionate and I got it done when I didn't know much about these systems..
- I feel the setup is pretty old and I got it done in 2002 Jan and I dont feel that the vocals come out good although the bass makes heads turn though I dont like the punch of the woofer..
- I listen to anything and everything.... there is no such specific genre of music that I prefer... so the new setup should be flexible for all types of sound outputs from Techno to Ghazals...don't think the current setup suits this...
- I like the Bass and acoustics to have an even balance..

Please get me out of this confusion....Thanks
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Old 24th August 2005, 18:19   #587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moralfibre
I have a Zen with the following setup:

Pioneer HU - KEH 7 Series. (The blue display one)
Pioneer 12" Subwoofer with VCCS
Pioneer CDX P1270 - 12 CD Changer
Pioneer 3 way speaker (2 nos.)
Denon DPC 40.1 front speakers
Sony 444 Amplifier (4 Channel)
A Boombox enclosure for the Sub and 2 Speakers (Made by a normal non tech person in Milan subway)
I am selling off my Zen in a while and will be using a Palio which doesn't have a music system yet..I am planning to transfer the entire system into the Palio except the boom box.
- Could you suggest alternative upgrades to get better sound quality.
- Is this a good setup for a Palio.
- Should I enclose the Sub in a box or leave it on the tray. (If a box what size should I go for?) The current box is totally disproportionate and I got it done when I didn't know much about these systems..
- I feel the setup is pretty old and I got it done in 2002 Jan and I dont feel that the vocals come out good although the bass makes heads turn though I dont like the punch of the woofer..
- I listen to anything and everything.... there is no such specific genre of music that I prefer... so the new setup should be flexible for all types of sound outputs from Techno to Ghazals...don't think the current setup suits this...
- I like the Bass and acoustics to have an even balance..

Please get me out of this confusion....Thanks
Your systems pretty ok. The entire lot of "Denon" branded car audio speakers that were available some years ago were all fake. In any case, the plaio accepts 5.25" speakers in the front so sell your car with the front speakers too.

Tray for a sub in a hatchback is a no-no. Get a nice box made out of decent 19mm MDF. Navin will tell you what to look out for in a good speaker box, or you can just read some of his earlier posts on speaker boxes.
I suggest a set of 5.25" components in the front for your palio. The rest should be pretty much ok.
If you can afford it, you need to buy another amplifier. I noticed you're already running 2 prs (i'm assuming you mean 2 pairs, when you say 2 nos)
that means your 444 is working pretty hard right now, driving 2 pairs of speakers and a sub.
I suggest you use the 444 to drive 2 pairs of speakers and a set of components and get another, more powerful amp for the subwoofer.

Since you want to use 2 pairs of speakers AND a sub, an effective way is to put the 4 speakers on a tray and make a solid subwoofer box under it. That way you will get the lows from the sub and the mid end whack from the speakers. And when you need that boot space, you can just disconnect the sub, put your suitcases in and still have music, even if it's without bass.

Cheers
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Old 24th August 2005, 19:04   #588
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upgrade the front speakers and add a nice amp. actually if you had 2 small subs i would have recommded a small good amp like the alpine 340 and using the 444 bridged for the 2 subs. but since you got 1 sub get a good 60W rms amp (or a 30W stereo bridged) but it should put out about 60W rms 20-20k 0.01% etc.... .
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Old 24th August 2005, 19:08   #589
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bass on a parcel tray is called boom. lots of volume with little definition. making boxes is not hard. PM me if you want more info on this. BTW dont upgrade becuase your system is 3 years old. upgrade becuase you ae looking to change the way it sounds. i got a system i set up in 1996 in my astra and the HU in that system is from 1987.
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Old 24th August 2005, 19:28   #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
Your systems pretty ok. The entire lot of "Denon" branded car audio speakers that were available some years ago were all fake.
I could figure out from the box itself that the Denon's were fake also the finishing of the logo on the grill says it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
I noticed you're already running 2 prs (i'm assuming you mean 2 pairs, when you
say 2 nos)
that means your 444 is working pretty hard right now, driving 2 pairs of speakers and a sub.
Its just one pair enclosed in the box.on either sides of the sub woofer with an internal partition in the box itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
I suggest you use the 444 to drive 2 pairs of speakers and a set of components and get another, more powerful amp for the subwoofer.
What amp should I go for which should be driving the sub exclusively? I assume that the 444 should be driving the speakers good but I am ready for a change too. What amplifiers do you recommend?
Also do you think going for a better Head Unit is a good decision? I feel that I was wisely loaded by the accessory guy seeing my knowledge of music systems he might have just taken me for a joy ride. The current head unit is not that bad but I read that Alpines are good? Why do you say so? Any specific reasons?

Should I add two more speakers to the setup? If yes which brand should I go for?

If you are not pestered by my queries yet ... could you suggest an altogether fresh setup for the Palio with your choice of good brands... I want to know because I might consider doing that as option too...
BTW the Demo Palio's that you did simply ROCK!! I can hear the punch from the Subs in the pictures itself.

Cheers..!
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Old 24th August 2005, 19:32   #591
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if i was starting fresh....
Alpine HU
Alpine Amp
Infinity speakers
Choose what fits your budget but with this combo you will need to budget 60-70K for a "starter system" of HU, 4 channel amp, 4 speakers with components in the front, and a amplified sub.
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Old 24th August 2005, 19:35   #592
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
bass on a parcel tray is called boom. lots of volume with little definition. making boxes is not hard. .
I just got the most perfect answer. My friend has a Santro Zip Plus with the same sub mounted on a tray and standing side to side his woofer gave out more BOOM driven by a small 222 which also bore the load to drive two similar speakers.. now I feel a bit relieved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
BTW dont upgrade becuase your system is 3 years old. upgrade becuase you ae looking to change the way it sounds. i got a system i set up in 1996 in my astra and the HU in that system is from 1987.
I plan to upgrade because off late I realised that this isn't the perfect dream setup for crystal clear outputs... and this is just close to those silly "Samaj Seva" systems which give out lots of volume but no one understands who says what!!!

Thanks a ton buddy..
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Old 24th August 2005, 19:44   #593
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Q: does anyone sell a 8" tube sub in India?
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Old 24th August 2005, 20:12   #594
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Blankpunt sells an 8" tube in India.
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Old 24th August 2005, 22:07   #595
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Hi Sam, just when I think I have asked all the questions I come up with more doubts. Now here is a tricky one. You recommended the JBL bass tube to me, as opposed to the JBL sub in a box which was more expensive. However going through the www.fxaudio.com site, I realized that the bass tube is CS 1200 T and the woofer is GTO 1200 B. Now as per your previous posts you mentioned that the GTO series is for high end audio, and the CS series is for entry level.
So does this mean that although you prefer sound of bass tubes than sub in a factory box, but in this case since the sub/tube are not equally matched, one being in a superior class than the other, implies that the GTO 1200 B is a better option than CS 1200 T. The reason I am more confused is that Naren (the manager at JBL) whose boss you are, wrote off the bass tube and STRONGLY recommended the GTO 1200B as opposed to the bass tube. Please shed some more light, as I dont mind shelling 2k more to get the right sound, since I have waited so long.
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Old 24th August 2005, 22:13   #596
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I have not heard the 1200T but have heard the 1200B. Aseem before you look at the 1200B make sure you got the watts to drive it. It will like atleast 60W rms and will sing with 100W rms. Note I said rms. not peak or pmpo or anything like that. You need an amo to deliver a lot of current for these subs. 1. The Mms & BL ratio demand it and 2. the impedance curve of this sub is quite reactive and an amp that can deliver high currents will be able to (for want of a better description) bully the sub into performing well. given these constraints I believe JBL subs are geat esp if you like to drive them hard. I once had 2 of their 18" 2245 pro woofers as part of my home stereo (then I got married).
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Old 24th August 2005, 22:18   #597
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BTW I powered the 2245 18" woofers with an amp that could deliver over 60 amps of current into 2 ohms (per channel) and I could clip the amp before the woofers even showed sings of complaing. the best amp for these woofers would be a crown unfortunately I was never able to afford crown.

In one of my previous avatars (1985?) I worked in Troy Michigan as an engineer (for LDJ electronics) building equipment that measured magnetic fields and magnetised motors. We used Crown amplifers to deliver huge globs of DC current and not once did we have a failure.
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Old 24th August 2005, 23:42   #598
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Default HU Powering the speakers

Navin, I have few question for you. I'm going to get the Alpine CDA 9833 this sunday. And while I was going through the features that it offers, i came up with these questions & doubts. Please see if you can help. [anyone other than Navin are also welcome to help ]

1. The 9833 HU claims that it has a 60W MAX x 4 V-Drive Power Amplifier.....-- does this mean that the sound coming out of my JBL compos and the 6" x9" ovals would sound better [like i've used an external amp]??

2. What would this be / mean.... -- 3-way or 2-way electronic crossover with adjustale slope??

3. Till date through various posts, I've only come to understand that it would be good to get a HU with 3 PreOuts of 4Volts each. Now, how is this going to be useful?? Or how should I be using this??

4. Regulated 1Bit DAC.....-- whats this??

5. What is a 6 Channel Digital Time correction & how does digital time correction work?? How does it impact / effect from a users standpoint??

I've always bought stuff which I like & understand, and of which I make complete use, be it mobile phones, gadgets, whatever... I absolutely don't know how car audio technology works, but I'm trying to learn whatever I can and understand what I'm buying, so I can make good use of it....

Hoping you can help.... Thanks

AK
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Old 24th August 2005, 23:52   #599
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Navin below are the specs of Sony 504Z... will it be able to drive the subs and 4 speakers? Or should I save more and buy an amp later?
FEATURES•MOSFET Power Supply•Maximum Output Power:
4 Ch x 100W at 4 ohm
2 Ch x 125W + 1 Ch x 250W at 4 ohm
4 Ch x 125W at 2 ohm•Rated Output Power:
4 Ch x 50W at 4 ohm (0.04% THD)
2 Ch x 50W + 1 Ch x 120W at 4 ohm (0.1% THD)
4 Ch x 60W at 2 ohm (0.1% THD)•High Pass Filter (Selectable) : 80Hz, -12dB/oct•Low Pass Filter (Selectable): 80Hz, -18dB/oct•Frequency Response: 5Hz-50kHz•Signal-to-Noise Ratio: 100dB•Dimensions (W x H x D in mm): 350 x 55 x 233
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Old 25th August 2005, 00:16   #600
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does any one have the link for the jvc website.have been trying to located it since a while but im not succesful.so some one please help out.


Rev
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