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Old 9th June 2007, 11:47   #6106
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Gunbir, there was ABSOLUTELY no need for the last line in your post #6110. TSK, I believe, does not have the budget for a 3 way. Having a good 3 way would also dictate upgrading his amp to fully exploit the nuances in the midrange that a 3 way can resolve.

I'll give TSK an example.
Whoa! Back the truck up!

Where in God's name did I tell TSK to buy a 3way???

Here is my post, and if your read very carefully, you will see clear as day I replied to Santosh.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/460741-post6097.html

Don't turn into a trigger happy mod Navinji, that hat doesn't suit you at all.

Let me ask YOU, in a budget 2way setup, where the user desires the kind of mid dynamics that Tanveer spoke about, do you think HPF at 60Hz will help? Or rather would it cause deterioration in midrange quality?

Last edited by gunbir : 9th June 2007 at 11:51.
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Old 9th June 2007, 11:55   #6107
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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Don't turn into a trigger happy mod Navinji, that hat doesn't suit you at all.
I was never called that before.

Not even when I banned LBM (if I recall it was seom statement that was similar to yours). You are lucky that the infraction system has been in effect since or you might have been subjected to the same moderation that I LBM suffered (might I had with great humour and dignity).
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Old 9th June 2007, 11:58   #6108
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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Let me ask YOU, in a budget 2way setup, where the user desires the kind of mid dynamics that Tanveer spoke about, do you think HPF at 60Hz will help? Or rather would it cause deterioration in midrange quality?
Lets not go abck and forth on this.

The infraction was not about your opinion. Opinions are welcome and appreciated. The infraction for what I understood to be a personal attack (Taste is not mine your yours, it is the domain of EACH individual and each of us are entitled to being unique in that way).
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Old 9th June 2007, 12:04   #6109
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Opinions are welcome and appreciated. The infraction for what I understood to be a personal attack (Taste is not mine your yours, it is the domain of EACH individual and each of us are entitled to being unique in that way).
Agreed.

As a stalwart of this hobby in our small community, I would love your opinion on this matter. In a budget 2way setup, where the user desires the kind of mid dynamics that Tanveer spoke about, do you think HPF at 60Hz will help? Or rather would it cause deterioration in midrange quality?
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Old 9th June 2007, 12:22   #6110
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Originally Posted by gunbir View Post
Agreed.
In a budget 2way setup, where the user desires the kind of mid dynamics that Tanveer spoke about, do you think HPF at 60Hz will help? Or rather would it cause deterioration in midrange quality?
A HPF at 60Hz will reduce the strain on the midwoofer and improve overall SPL capablity. But at lower levels I'd rather not have a HPF at all or have it set at 30Hz or so. If Tanveer wants to play loud he will need a HPF at 60Hz.

Most of the upper-midbass dynamics (snare drum for example) can be provided by the harmonics so a HPF at 60hz will not be such a detrement. BTW I have forgotten the final config of Tanveer's system. Does he or doesn't he have a sub?
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Old 9th June 2007, 17:16   #6111
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Hmm, some party here! Well I will talk about my system.
Based on a 5 page long thread I decided on the following system
1. HU - 10,000
2. 75.4 + GTO 607 2 way
4. 12" in a sealed box(JBL in the box sealed solution)
5. Finolex wiring - 10m(4 gauge)
6. Good quality RCA
The total cost was above my budget by around 5K, and I was looking at cutting costs by going for a custom box and a sub without B&W.

Then I happened to listen to a setup which was same as what I desired, except for the HU. It had a 12" sub in a custom MDF box made by JB.

I did not like it.
The BASS was excellent clean. But it was all "Sub BASS". Extremely low BASS. I do not like that.

In my current configuration I have 4" + 6" speakers in front(no tweeters) and cheapo sony Xplod speakers in the rear.

On my Pioneer system I have set FIE at 200Hz where frequency below 200Hhz are sent to the coax at rear, and rest of the stuff to speakers up front.

The BASS I get from these coax is what I need, mid bass.
So why don't I go for same coax?
The reason is that though they give out the desired bass, at anything above low volumes, or low bass at medium volumes too, the sound starts cracking, as if the speaker cones are tearing up.
Bear in mind I do not have any amp, just HU + 6 speakers.
I want the same kind of sound which I have, great drums, even the small drums and decent bass drum for rock, base guitar. But my current system delivers the wares but does not deliver them good.
Its like this.
MY resturants serves me Starters, Meal and Dessert, but the quality is not very good, though all the dishes I want are there. So I am looking to pay more and find a decent resturant which serves the same menu with better quality.
I spend close to 11,000 on my old system. Now I am willing to spend 30,000 and eat the same dishes(ok little more on HU front), but I want dishes to be more tasty.
Earlier I spent 6500 on these 6 speakers. Now I am spending 24000 on the speakers+amp, I think I should get the same ware (midbass etc.) with better quality,

Thats why I came to this conclusion(maybe wrongly so) that instead of a sub I need much better quality coax which cost 6000 or above instead of 3000.
Or maybe instead of GTO 607 the infinity reference series or some other higher end brand will give me better mid bass.
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Old 9th June 2007, 17:41   #6112
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I don't think tsk, what you heard is right. You need that sub, but you need it to be at a lower level. I know what LBM and his friends like, BOOMMMMMMM low bass and lots of it.

The sub needs to be tuned at the right frequency and the right gain level and put in the right box, thats all. You dont want a whole lot of low bass, you want it tight and punchy, that can be done.

I would still recommend a nice set of compos and a sub in the back. But if you want to avoid it, then an amp, 2 way compos and 1 pair coax I guess.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 9th June 2007 at 17:46.
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Old 9th June 2007, 17:42   #6113
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Thats why I came to this conclusion(maybe wrongly so) that instead of a sub I need much better quality coax which cost 6000 or above instead of 3000.
Or maybe instead of GTO 607 the infinity reference series or some other higher end brand will give me better mid bass.
Tanveer, I tend to agree with you here. Most budget subs will never be able to keep up with your music. Its better you avoid the sub and spend your dough on better speakers. As mentioned by others earlier, listen to as many good setups as you can. A 4ch amp, front comps + rear coaxials seem to be your ideal setup. I have a couple of sub-less cars at home (my parents) that I drive once in a while and I find the sound quite enjoyable.

Or... you could do what Sam suggests. Really depends on your taste eventually.

Last edited by gunbir : 9th June 2007 at 17:46.
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Old 9th June 2007, 23:53   #6114
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Tsk.
See you got a HU and a pair of 6" comps. The JBL comps a bit bright. I find the Hertz comps (the ones that were in Viper Getz) also a bit too bright. You might be better of lookig for a set of front comps that sound right to you. My mom paid about 8K for a set of Infinity 6020 comps.

I find them a bit bright too (not as bright has JBL or Viper's Hertz) but with a bit of XO tuning (like I did for my wife 6010) I think I can "sew a silk purse out of a sow's ear". What I find is that in a car since the tweeter is so close to the ear a bit of a recess in the 3K range helps (I am talking 0.5db or so - I use Clio or LSPCad to do this).

So Step A. find a set of front components that you like. Most of the attack and upper midbass you get can be managed well by the right set of 6" components. The attack of a snare drum for example is in the lower midrange (slightly dependant on the skin and wire tuning).

One that is done then add a sub and bring it slowly. A sub tuning should he such that the sub is not audible over the front sound stage but is missed when turned off. If your HU has a delay control then you can tune your sub to mate with your front comps better.

A pair of 6x9 are great up to 40Hz or so. High SPLs below that frequency and they will hit their limits. a 12" sub however can go almost an octave lower (25Hz is not impossible) before the same signs are felt.
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Old 10th June 2007, 08:57   #6115
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Gunbir/Sam, person having iridium speakers, ID subs & steg amp can be tasteless and likes boom?
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Old 10th June 2007, 09:02   #6116
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Gunbir/Sam, person having iridium speakers, ID subs & steg amp can be tasteless and likes boom?
First, Sam made no such comment, secondly, lets leave this here... BTW, I have seen people with Ferraris and Lambos who have no taste. Whatever gave you the impression that taste is directly proportional to the amount of money you spend or what you own.
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Old 10th June 2007, 09:36   #6117
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Agreed that it is not worth stretching, except that I need to clarify myself regarding what I was referring to-


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I know what LBM and his friends like, BOOMMMMMMM low bass and lots of it.
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Old 10th June 2007, 11:18   #6118
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santhosh, the preference of low deep bass that rattles your bones, is a question of CHOICE.

Not the lack of anything.
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Old 10th June 2007, 15:09   #6119
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I do not like loud lowww BASSSSSSSSS. Would prefer medium mid bass.
Also I do not like tweeters. Sometimes it hurts my ears.
I remember reading somewhere that the 2 way component is better than 4 separate speakers because you do not have to tweak the crossover yourself.

So lets say I get high quality 6" speaker and a high quality 4" 2 way for front and then manually adjust the Xover? Is adjustment something like moving a rotary knob clockwise or anticlockwise?
In that case I would love to have individual control rather than Hertz or JBL decide it for me in pre designed crossovers.

As Navin mentioned, tweeters are too close to ears. I would like to have them(If I get any) as far away from my ears.
40-Hz to 6000Hz is where I want the best quality sound.

For very low and subtle bass a 8" sub in a ported box would do, right?
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Old 10th June 2007, 15:15   #6120
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Also, Tsk you may actually want to try the JBL CS2165C 6" components. Sometimes the cheaper stuff may be actually what your looking for.

When Navinji says XO tuning it means opening up the XO and changing the resistors and caps. The values are calculated using software tools.
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