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Old 25th August 2005, 12:33   #616
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Sam, what are the Belden prices like?
And I do not mind Sound Factor fitting the HU but there is this warranty issue with Maruti if he cuts the wires in the car. Do the wires on the car need to be cut to fit the HU? I prefer to get this fitted with someone outside because the Maruti guys will charge some exorbitant rate for a 10 minute job.

Navin, which brand of EL84s are you using? Where did you get them? How much? Is there any way of getting EL34s because Elektor had published a simple power amp. I might try it. And are the transformers difficult to get.

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Old 25th August 2005, 12:42   #617
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One last question on this thread, after this I will sease to post any further questions/suggestions on this post. This one is for you Sam. All of you hate the Sony speakers here. However for the price range that I am looking for, you are all recommending Sony 504 Z amplifier. Now I am willing to spend up to 8k if with in that range I can get a substancially better amplifier. How about JBL CS 50.4 for 7k... is it better than the Sony 504Z and will this give me a substancially better music. I dont want boom boom in my car, but I want defined music. The components would do their job, and so would the rear GTO 636 speakers. However dont they need a better driver? Why are we recommeding Sony amp when we are dismissing Sony in almost everything from speakers to HU. Any other amplifiers in this range that I should consider? Thanks in advance. And good bye to all you lovely people.
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Old 25th August 2005, 12:53   #618
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Got them from calcutta. free. dont have them here so i forget the details. the trannys are crazy to get. i am pestering a friend in delhi to roll me a pair capable of handling 4 EL84. I guess they'll handle 2 EL34s too.
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Old 25th August 2005, 12:57   #619
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the CS 50.4 and the alpine 340 will both be smoother than the sony 504. i or one dont dismiss or recommend anything before i hear it or have got feedback from the few friends whose ears i trust so by that logic i dont dismiss anything sony not even the speakers but i have heard the 504 and 340 above and can clearly tell the difference. the 504 is great VFM though.
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Old 25th August 2005, 13:05   #620
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I know that was supposed to me my last post. But just to ask one final question, how does the Alpine 340 Alpine cost.
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Old 25th August 2005, 13:08   #621
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jeessus aseem i am too old to remember that besides i dont own one. just heard one at lenght against the 504 in the same car (octy). i figure 6-8K. sam might know more.
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Old 25th August 2005, 13:27   #622
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
1. The 9833 or any HU can really only deliver about 10-12W rms / channel, 0.01%, 20-20khz. so I would recommend the use of an external amplifer with ANY HU. The Power amplifer of ANY HU is a poor substitute

2. The 9833 allows you to send only the mids and high freq to the the 4 full range speakers and send the low freq to the subs. this way your amplifer's filters (low pass or high pass) need not be used. This way you can tinker with the settings while in the driver's seat. Once the settings are done I find no need to keep tinkering.

3. Most common HUs have a 2V level in the RCA out. This signal is meant to drive the power amplifier. the advantage of a 4V signal is 2 fold (only if you are using external amplifers).
a) Since the 4 v signal is louder the amplifer gain can be reduced hence the freq. bandwidth of the driver transistors is increased as they have to do less work. This also improves the CMRR (common mode rejection ratio) of the driving stage. since it is distortion at this stage that gets amplifed by the power transistors of the power amp the total distortion of the signal chain is reduced.
b) since the gain of the external power amp is reduced any noises (alternator whine, etc..) that can be picked up by the power amp is much reduced. this is more noticeable as with the reduced gain much of this noise is below the threshold of the external amplfiers circuits or can be quenched by the external amps circuits.

If this is too complex an explantion (I just re-read it and a more detailed expalation would take a book) just follow G W Bush version. "4V good, 2 V bad, repeat, 4V good, 2 V bad". got it :-)

4. 1 bit DAC are considered by some to be more accurate (actually this is not te right word) than a 16 bit DAC. It has to do with the way present day DACs work. There are 16 and 32 bit DAC not used in commercial applications that can out perform any 1 bit DAC but those cost more than your car. If the DAC has it's own regualted pweor supply it stays more stable and hence it does it's work in a more consistent manner. I hope this is enough. I fear any more will get me fired by the mods.

5. the 4 speakers in your car are at various distance from your ear. time correction allows yo to compensate for this so that the sound from all 4 speakers arrives at your ear at teh same time. Of coruse this can only work for one listening position. I acttually sat over my gear shift lever to arrive at a compromise for the front passengers. the rear passengers get so much reverb it dont make much difference anyway. Analog time correction circuits are large and have their own errors mostly aliasing and phasing errors and in their use it limited to studio use. digital time correction is the version used for the commercial market.

Jeeezz ..... I wished I hadn't asked.... Wonder if you read your skool books as much, navin

One last question & I'll shut my mouth....

If I had to go for an amp to get the best sound out of my JBL compos and ovals, which would be it?? Budget = Less than 6k - 7k....

Thanks
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Old 25th August 2005, 13:34   #623
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem
One last question on this thread, after this I will sease to post any further questions/suggestions on this post. This one is for you Sam. All of you hate the Sony speakers here. However for the price range that I am looking for, you are all recommending Sony 504 Z amplifier. Now I am willing to spend up to 8k if with in that range I can get a substancially better amplifier. How about JBL CS 50.4 for 7k... is it better than the Sony 504Z and will this give me a substancially better music. I dont want boom boom in my car, but I want defined music. The components would do their job, and so would the rear GTO 636 speakers. However dont they need a better driver? Why are we recommeding Sony amp when we are dismissing Sony in almost everything from speakers to HU. Any other amplifiers in this range that I should consider? Thanks in advance. And good bye to all you lovely people.
Goodbye? WHere are you going?

The Sony speakers sound like rubbish, so we dismiss them. The Sony electronics are all quite nice so we like them.
The CS 50.4 is a lovely amp, but not designed to run subwoofers etc. If you're running compos, or speakers, it's amazing. If you want a JBL amp to run the sub and the compos, you need the GTO75.4.

If its just the GTO636 and the GTO606ce, the 50.4 is a lovely amp. It costs 9500/-
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Old 25th August 2005, 13:50   #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pranil
Here U go. If u decide on something and able to get prices pls. post here.

http://www.jvc-asia.com/sg/products/caraudio.asp


althoghh some of the posts here sugesst JVC and Sony bothnhave tough time CD_R/RW

hey thanx a lot

how will this one be.sam will this be able to handle the gto...i guess they will.

# Power Output: 200W(50Wx4)
# 1-Bit DAC(24-Bit Resolution) *
# MP3 Compatible
# CD/CD-R/CD-RW Compatible
# cEQ
# Gold-Plated Line Output Terminals (x2 pairs)
# 4V Line Output Level
# Subwoofer output terminals with level control
# Multi-Color Display
# Station Name Registration
# Flip-Down Face
# Rotary Encoder Multi-Control *
# Oval-Shaped Wireless Remote Control

what do the ones marked with the astrix mean.please throw some light


Rev

Last edited by revtech : 25th August 2005 at 13:51.
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Old 25th August 2005, 13:50   #625
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I want an amp to run 4 speakers GTO 636 and components 606E and a tube. The budget is around 5-8k. We had previously agreed on Sony 504Z to drive all of them. But since I am getting Sony for 3.9k I want to explore more options within my budget. Since CS 50.4 wont be able to drive my tube/sub, thus I need to consider more options. How much does that Alpine amp that Navin mentioned cost? Will it be able to drive the sub as well? Should I consider two amps? One Sony 502 for the sub and another 5-6 k range amp for the speakers? Please advise. This is my last post since I want you guys to concentrage and focus on other people on this forum, as they deserve to be heard. I will always be around and my soul will always search this thread. Good bye to all you lovely people. God bless America/India and God bless us all.
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Old 25th August 2005, 14:35   #626
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Aseem, I don't understand why u need to leave for Sam, Navin & rest to concentrate and help others. Matter of fact, you've been of help to me, and could be of help to everyone else here too... Just stay along and keep the good work going....

Remember, the thread is all about helping others by sharing the info we know.. Your non-existance will by no way support to that cause..... Be around.... and have fun...
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Old 25th August 2005, 14:43   #627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
Goodbye? WHere are you going?

The Sony speakers sound like rubbish, so we dismiss them. The Sony electronics are all quite nice so we like them.
The CS 50.4 is a lovely amp, but not designed to run subwoofers etc. If you're running compos, or speakers, it's amazing. If you want a JBL amp to run the sub and the compos, you need the GTO75.4.

If its just the GTO636 and the GTO606ce, the 50.4 is a lovely amp. It costs 9500/-
Sam, do you think I should go in for the CS 50.4 amp if i'm just running a GTO 506Ce/606Ce compos and GTO 936e ovals with the Alpine 9833/9830 HU?? What others amps should /can I consider??

Lemme know. Thanks.

AK
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Old 25th August 2005, 15:40   #628
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ok aseem and ajay,
if you are running a sub and 4 speakers i would recommend 2 amps one for the sub and one for the 4 speakers. in fact a 502 and a 504 (total about 8K?) might work cooler than a 4 channel amp running into 2 ohms (this is effectively what you will do if you bridge the sub into 2 channels and run the other 4 speakers from the other 2 channels).

Neither the 340 or the 50.4 are designed to drive subs. It is not that ehy cant but they are not designed to drive subs. just like a swift can carry 200 kgs of steel sheets in the back but it is not degined to do that. it is best to use amplifiers for what they are best degined to do as in this case they do the job they are degined to do very well.

The sony 502 and 504 are designed for budget systems and are not as refined as the 340 or 50.4. if a budget permitted it i would go as far to say that a great combo might be a 502 for the sub and 50.4/340 for the 4 speakers but that would mean about 11K for amps about double of aseem's 6k budget.

so there you have it...
at 4K get the 504
at 8K get the 504 and 502
at 11K get the 502 with a 50.4 or 340
but i dont see an option between 4k and 8K. Maybe sam or others can help.
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Old 25th August 2005, 15:44   #629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revtech
# 1-Bit DAC(24-Bit Resolution) *
# Rotary Encoder Multi-Control *
Rev
rev, see post 622 for he 1 bit dac and as far as the rotary encoder goes dont worry about it. it is marketing talk. it dont make a difference if the encoder is rotary or not and in any cae today most are; for ease of use in a car.
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Old 25th August 2005, 16:28   #630
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Quote:
Fitting the HU is a piece of cake. However, If you're going to the store ask Pritams guy to do it for you. He'll also run the belden cable for you if you like, under the carpet.
I looked under the dash and found a couple of wiring harnesses. I could not guess which one should be used. The back of my HU has several wires hanging loose. As I understand it, the Acc, battery and the negative have to be connected apart from the speaker connections. I would love to do this myself for my car (Alto). Could one of you guide me or is there a good site where I can get proper instructions?
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