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Old 10th June 2008, 12:07   #8236
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
B&T, mohan is building a standard XO (a XO that does not compensate for the freq response roll off of the drivers) at the nominal impedance of the drivers.
, I thought the midwoofer in concern is from the 7 Series, i.e. the mysterious 2 ohm impedance one. Sorry, my bad.

I also doubt the original X over point was at 4k. What order? If at was at 4k, why are you taking it higher? Sorry for the noobish questions.
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Old 10th June 2008, 13:00   #8237
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Originally Posted by hrsraghav View Post
What all options are available for a Subwoofer and Amplifier for a budget of 10-12K
Also Will a kenwood 8401 or 8404 amp sufficient for driving a ID12 D2 v.3, or it won't be able to do justice to sub?
The ID sub demands a better amp. Why no get a monoblock from Pioneer, JBL or GZ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
I have a similar query. I am looking for a 'budget' sub (sealed box: for SQ and not a very boomy bass).
So what all options are there for sub+amp around 10-12k?
The budget amps (arpund 7K for a 4 ch. amp) all put out about 100W when bridged (Kenwood 8404, Pioneer 6300, etc..)

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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
:the mysterious 2 ohm impedance one.
I also doubt the original X over point was at 4k. What order? If at was at 4k, why are you taking it higher? Sorry for the noobish questions.
I have not looked at the XO of this speaker so cant say. I seem to remember that the impedance is actually around 2.6 ohms or there abouts still this is the combined nominal impedance of woofer, tweeter, and XO (incl such factors as insertion loss).

B&T, you can hardly qualify yourself as "noobish". If you do, I'd have to go back to 2nd grade. LOL.
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Old 10th June 2008, 13:59   #8238
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
for a standard electrical Xo at 6kHz for 4 ohms drivers
Capacitors
C1 = 4.7 uF
C2 = 4.7 uF
Inductors
L1 = 0.15 mH
L2 = 0.15 mH

Since both your inductors are the same check the inductor you have in parallel with the tweeter by switching with the other (working) inductor.
Yes, Navinji,
It was my mistake, i don't know how i missed those values.I will make new coils.(already opened those coils and i don't think they are reusable.Read as no Patience)

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another option is to add a 4ohm resistor in series with the inductor that is in parallel with the tweeter. .
Yes.Thats next once i make new coils in the evening.

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mohan, when you design a XO yo must note that the driver has it's own roll off and that the impedance at XO freq may not be the same at the nominal impedance.
Can i check the Impedance at XO freq without oscilloscope

Quote:
energy is above 6K is 10% of total Energy in a musical signal. Listen to the system with both sections of the XO connected don't listen to each section (LP or HP) individually, not yet, you wont get the right picture.
I have connected both
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Old 10th June 2008, 14:01   #8239
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
... B&T, you can hardly qualify yourself as "noobish". If you do, I'd have to go back to 2nd grade. LOL.
And I should go sign up for baby sign-language course in Poland! Epitome of humility, our B&T!!!

B&T-bhai, you scared the **** out of people with scary stories about tweeters getting fried by too much of lower KHz. Right right, now you have to do mandatory community service by teaching every one about the goods and ills of going high or low KHz with tweeters.
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Old 10th June 2008, 14:07   #8240
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Originally Posted by Bass&Trouble View Post
I also doubt the original X over point was at 4k. What order? If at was at 4k, why are you taking it higher?
B&T
I think so.(i don't have any documentation about 506c)When i started i was worried about making coils (never made air core inductors-from collage days i was away from them) now i can make them without any hick-up (thank you all gurus).I will make different combinations and check which one works for me.
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Old 10th June 2008, 14:36   #8241
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
The ID sub demands a better amp. Why no get a monoblock from Pioneer, JBL or GZ?.
So a monoblock for ID Sub, and a two channel Amp for front components. Wouldn't it cross atleast 20K for Sub + Amps? I have a maximum budget of 12K for Sub and Amp . Or asking in other way, what is the best Sub for 7K, for tight Bass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
The budget amps (arpund 7K for a 4 ch. amp) all put out about 100W when bridged (Kenwood 8404, Pioneer 6300, etc..)
So are you saying that this much power wont be enough for a Sub?
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Old 10th June 2008, 15:32   #8242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mohang_j View Post
Can i check the Impedance at XO freq without oscilloscope
do you have a LCR bridge? Aplab maks a decent one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mohang_j View Post
B&T
I think so.(i don't have any documentation about 506
why not measure the existing components first and simulate their effct using something like LspCad (the lite version is free and works well for something like this)

Quote:
Originally Posted by hrsraghav View Post
So a monoblock for ID Sub
Or asking in other way, what is the best Sub for 7K, for tight Bass.So are you saying that this much power wont be enough for a Sub?
well an ID sub would not be pushed to the best of it's abilities without a good amp. Besides the ID sub itself is about 12K

Kenwood 8103/4 sells for about 9-10K. On a tighter budget try Audiobahn (Bass & Trouble) or HiFonics (Blue Raven).
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Old 10th June 2008, 16:30   #8243
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Default Scorpio sound set up help

Hello everybody, I just joined. Have an audio prob.
Have a new scorpio vlx in which i ve got fitted a JVC KW-AVX800 HU, Soundstream LW 4.480 Amp, Plk Momo Comp speakers 6" in front and Polk Momo ovals on rear door. Am disappointed with the sound quality after spending a lot of money. Have also damped both front doors and rear speaker door. Have I selected something wrong above. My old scorpio had a Sony Xplod CDX-GT860U with Ultimate 6" in front and Pioneer Ovals at the back and the effect was awesome atleast in front, without an amp. The speakers were fitted in upper portion of door. (The old 2004 scorpio didn't ve door speaker provision).

Can anyone help ?
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Old 10th June 2008, 17:20   #8244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
I have a similar query. I am looking for a 'budget' sub (sealed box: for SQ and not a very boomy bass). This I intend to drive through 2 bridged channels of an amp (as the remaining two will drive the front comps).

So what all options are there for sub+amp around 10-12k?
nishantji
Youve been really breaking your head about this combo huh?


now since you want a budget amp to drive compos and a sub in a box the following might help
1. if its a 12 inch sub in a sealed box it would be better off with more power than a 60*2 rms bridge would give. So the Kenwood 8401/4 (which is a good amp Btw) or the 4 channel JBL GT5 should be last choice
2. assuming 200rms minimum would be OK for JBL pioneer or the GZ 12 incher your best bet is the JBL 75.4. I think there are some bhpians who still have access to it,see if you can contact them

3. what i would advice is 2 amps in absence of the 75.4
A kenwood 60.2 (its about 4000rs ) and a Kenwood 6203 ( gives out more than 250 rms continuous bridged,alternatively there are also some pioneer 2 channels) However 6203 is real difficult to find
Both amps might cost you about the same as a JBL 75.4

4. The only woofer left you can consider is the JBL GT5 12 incher(due to its comapritevely lower grey price) so as to stay within 12K on the amp
plus sub combo.
If you can put it a bit more the GZ sub is the one to go for

Keep us tuned on your quest
I think your query is on many peoples mind as well
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Old 10th June 2008, 18:04   #8245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magma View Post
nishantji
Youve been really breaking your head about this combo huh?


now since you want a budget amp to drive compos and a sub in a box the following might help
1. if its a 12 inch sub in a sealed box it would be better off with more power than a 60*2 rms bridge would give. So the Kenwood 8401/4 (which is a good amp Btw) or the 4 channel JBL GT5 should be last choice
2. assuming 200rms minimum would be OK for JBL pioneer or the GZ 12 incher your best bet is the JBL 75.4. I think there are some bhpians who still have access to it,see if you can contact them

3. what i would advice is 2 amps in absence of the 75.4
A kenwood 60.2 (its about 4000rs ) and a Kenwood 6203 ( gives out more than 250 rms continuous bridged,alternatively there are also some pioneer 2 channels) However 6203 is real difficult to find
Both amps might cost you about the same as a JBL 75.4

4. The only woofer left you can consider is the JBL GT5 12 incher(due to its comapritevely lower grey price) so as to stay within 12K on the amp
plus sub combo.
If you can put it a bit more the GZ sub is the one to go for

Keep us tuned on your quest
I think your query is on many peoples mind as well
That would be me.

I was planning to get a JBL A604 for the fronts + rears. And for the next upgrade, i would've bought a sub + a mono or a 2 ch amp ( CS 300.1 , GTA 280, etc.)

I dont like the idea of using a 4 ch amp to drive the fronts and the sub.
Thats okay, when you dont have rear fills (like in nishant's case) but if you do, its pointless driving them off the HU, IMO it'd be better without them.

Last edited by adityamunshi : 10th June 2008 at 18:11.
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Old 10th June 2008, 18:15   #8246
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Originally Posted by adityamunshi View Post
I dont like the idea of using a 4 ch amp to drive the fronts and the sub.

Thats okay, when you dont have rear fills (like in nishant's case) but if you do, its pointless driving them off the HU, IMO it'd be better without them.
I agree to some extent. But if you drive the coax/rear fills thru the amp, dont you run the risk of making them powerful enough to overpower/match the front compos? Thats why I always believed that running the rear 6x9s off the HU would keep them 'subdued'

Also, any specific reason why its not good to use a 4 channel amp to drive the front and the sub?

OT - Cost wise, what is the difference between a 4 channel amp vs 2 two channels or 2 channel+monoblock amp?

Last edited by nishantgandhi : 10th June 2008 at 18:17.
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Old 10th June 2008, 18:40   #8247
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magma View Post
nishantji
Youve been really breaking your head about this combo huh?
Confused - sure I am! Also, traveling and hectic work is keeping me away from Mumbai so I am not able to get any audition or visit dealers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magma View Post
now since you want a budget amp to drive compos and a sub in a box the following might help
1. if its a 12 inch sub in a sealed box it would be better off with more power than a 60*2 rms bridge would give. So the Kenwood 8401/4 (which is a good amp Btw) or the 4 channel JBL GT5 should be last choice
Really? I have heard that JBL and Kenwood are 1 and 2 choices in budget amps. Anyways, how is Blaupunkt GT4 MK2 in that case?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magma View Post
2. assuming 200rms minimum would be OK for JBL pioneer or the GZ 12 incher your best bet is the JBL 75.4. I think there are some bhpians who still have access to it,see if you can contact them
Well, last I heard was that 75.4 was around 8k in grey. That is slightly above what I am looking at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magma View Post
3. what i would advice is 2 amps in absence of the 75.4
A kenwood 60.2 (its about 4000rs ) and a Kenwood 6203 ( gives out more than 250 rms continuous bridged,alternatively there are also some pioneer 2 channels) However 6203 is real difficult to find
Both amps might cost you about the same as a JBL 75.4
I am just guessing, but 2 amps would also mean additional wiring kit right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magma View Post
4. The only woofer left you can consider is the JBL GT5 12 incher(due to its comapritevely lower grey price) so as to stay within 12K on the amp
plus sub combo. If you can put it a bit more the GZ sub is the one to go for
Does JBL GT5 12 perform well enough being fed by either of the 3 budget amps mentioned above?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magma View Post
Keep us tuned on your quest
I think your query is on many peoples mind as well
Yes, I hope so! Atleast Aditya and Vebmetal are the ones that I know of!
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Old 10th June 2008, 19:42   #8248
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Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
Also, any specific reason why its not good to use a 4 channel amp to drive the front and the sub?
No, that was the only reason and it doesn't apply if you only have front comps and a sub.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nishantgandhi View Post
OT - Cost wise, what is the difference between a 4 channel amp vs 2 two channels or 2 channel+monoblock amp?
Cost wise, if you compare to a grey 75.4 @8.5 K (the lowest i've read on this forum ) it would be 3-4 K depending upon the choice of amps.

EDIT :
Quote:
Does JBL GT5 12 perform well enough being fed by either of the 3 budget amps mentioned above?
In one of the posts blueraven told me the A604 can easily run a sub, whereas the CS 60.4 could not. Im not sure why because both amps have the same RMS rating

Last edited by adityamunshi : 10th June 2008 at 19:45.
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Old 10th June 2008, 21:30   #8249
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Originally Posted by adityamunshi View Post
In one of the posts blueraven told me the A604 can easily run a sub, whereas the CS 60.4 could not. Im not sure why because both amps have the same RMS rating
Why not?
I am using cs 60.2 to drive cs1204 sub in a sealed box in alto.I run the setup at 50% power ad its adequate to over power 937 and 402 co-aux.Bass is tight and i feel its 160wrms (claimed) is sufficient for normal volumes.(though LBM will not agree.We are discussing BASS and LBM is not here -how can this happen,)
Its true that these subwoofers perform even better with higher powered monoblocks.

Last edited by mohang_j : 10th June 2008 at 21:32.
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Old 10th June 2008, 21:41   #8250
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Originally Posted by navin View Post
do you have a LCR bridge? Aplab maks a decent one.
No don't.
Quote:
why not measure the existing components first and simulate their effct using something like LspCad (the lite version is free and works well for something like this)
Existing coil in the JBL Xo is 62turns of 20gauge wire on a 6mm wooden tube.Wood pice is the one which winders use as spacers in motors.
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