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Old 2nd September 2005, 23:21   #946
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Ajay go with Sony 504Z with your eyes closed. The 504Z is priced at 6k with bill and 4k gray. The JBL CS 50.4 is priced at 9k with bill and 7k gray. The RMS of JBL, Sony, Blankpunt is almost the same. However I feel JBL is overpriced and overhyped. If you search CS50.4 and Sony XM 504 on google, you will find that JBL is priced at 85 pounds as opposed to the Sony which is priced at 89 pounds. I think Sony is simply giving a better deal here.
JBL has recently had a price cut on the JBL GTO 75.4 amplifier from 16.5 to 15k. They should have given a price break on JBL CS 50.4 as well. On paper both these amplifiers are equally matched. Even Sam recommends Sony in most of his threads.
If you still dont feel confident, get the speakers and HU wiring done, and than connect both the amplifiers, and decide for yourself.

I think in this case everybody is discouraging the Sony because of its low price. Its the consumer psychie, that a lower price product is not as good as the higher priced one. Even if its actually better

Last edited by aseem : 2nd September 2005 at 23:28.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 00:24   #947
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzehar
yes VIVEKPHADNIS, Sam is the one at the Wheel !!! Cheers !

AYY buss kya, thats NOT me in the photo. What do you mean sam is the one at the wheel lol
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Old 3rd September 2005, 00:40   #948
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Oh crap i've had such a tiring day at the New Delhi Audio Exhibition. The palio eyeballer was finally ready and we brought it to the hotel, to a mad response lol. Also sat up all night trussing up the dhow with the team and everything looks nice.
Couple of quick things: AJAY, I am so sorry when you came by i was busy with the chief guest, I then looked for you everywhere! didnt see you.
I met Manticore later in the day and he had a great time, i showed him the A3000GTi amplifier for the car. (Prices at Rs 3,25,000/-) and he's gonna take the eyeballer for a spin monday in Delhi.

Hi Aseem, thats some good advice there. Just think you need to amplify ALL speakers, not just the front. I LOVE your quote by the way. Lol:

And here's a picture of me and manticore at the show today. Please excuse all the fools in the back heh heh

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Old 3rd September 2005, 00:44   #949
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ajay
we're taking our first car delivery tomorrow A Tata Indica diesel. Hope you guys wish me luck ... Cheers

AK
I wish you the best with your brand new car. May it always feel and smell new and never give you an ounce of trouble, as long as you own it.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 00:49   #950
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So Sam are you saying that soundstage should not be from the FRONT and we should power all the four speakers?
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Old 3rd September 2005, 00:59   #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
I wish you the best with your brand new car. May it always feel and smell new and never give you an ounce of trouble, as long as you own it.
Geee, so sweet of you.. Thanks... i thot u'd say those for the speakers tho

And wasn't I rite about you not being behind the wheel on that foto... Who'd da man be?

Last edited by k_ajay : 3rd September 2005 at 01:05.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 01:17   #952
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All I am saying is that my opinion is formed on 14 years of purely being in the audio industry and not on somebody elses opinion in another forum. I do not change the way i think, every time i read another persons posting in a thread on audio somewhere in the world.
My opinion is my own and some people like to hear it. Some people listen to me because this business is my bread and butter and also my hobby.
I dont always agree with people who have experience with audio much beyond my own (all fingers point at Navin) and he doesnt always agree with me even though he knows i know my stuff. It's called healthy respect.

I like all my speakers amplified. I believe that if you amplify just the front and use the rear speakers on the head unit, the rears get overshadowed and totally lost. I always keep the fronts a little louder, IF the fronts can handle it.

For a self driven car, you need a slight dominance of soundstage from the front. The proximity of the speakers add a fantastic dynamism to the sound and furthermore the proximity also minimizes the delay error (more from navin, lol). That understood i would certainly not power my fronts with a 50W amplfier and the rears with a 10W amplifier.

Lastly, today, on my return to this section of TBHP i discover (not that great efforts were made in subtlety) that one has taken great exception to a certain portion of a statement i made a couple of days ago.
It is silly to say that your experience in music is little. One has no experience in "music" Well one has an "experience" every now and then (god bless Jimi Hendrix). I purely meant it in the "reproduction of good sound being a way of life" topic.
And so, a quick clarification here:
I know you are wise and experienced beyond your years: i have got this from your earlier posts, but my friend, I was selling speakers when your science teacher was asking you to finish your homework. Navin was making speakers when MY mum was prolly washing MY backside. My statement purely reflected on this comparison of experience.

That said, I truly believe your advice is really very very good.

I only advise you not to research TOO much and not to believe that anybody's advice from any thread on any forum in the world is writ. It's not. Not even what we say here.
And so I look forward to more good advice from you, based on your own experiences. Not on google, but in life.
ok buss sorry.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 01:20   #953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ajay
And wasn't I rite about you not being behind the wheel on that foto... Who'd da man be?

"Da Man" at the wheel is Tausif Ansari, retail manager, JBL New Delhi.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 01:39   #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
All I am saying is that my opinion is formed on 14 years of purely being in the audio industry and not on somebody elses opinion in another forum. I do not change the way i think, every time i read another persons posting in a thread on audio somewhere in the world.

That said, I truly believe your advice is really very very good.

I only advise you not to research TOO much and not to believe that anybody's advice from any thread on any forum in the world is writ. It's not. Not even what we say here.
And so I look forward to more good advice from you, based on your own experiences. Not on google, but in life.
ok buss sorry.
A stupid man doesn't learn from his experience.
A smart man learns from his experience.
A wise man learns from others experience.

If you are a smart man, you strive to be a wise man. We face many situations in life that require a gut check. But most are unique enough that the decision you made in a previous situation might not have the same outcome in another.
Because my personal experience is limited, I have to my smarts to analyze a situation and draw on the library of others' experiences to learn and acquire information about any subject. This is how knowledge is transfered and transcended through different generations. Not everything thats old is right! One should be willing to change and invent. This is how generations become more wiser/technologically advanced with the advent of time. One should always be willing to learn and have an open mind. The moment one ceases to learn, I think life is worthless. As people we are not willing to adapt to change quickly, and base our life on past experiences. History will tell you that great ideas and innovations were initially rejected by society.

I acknowledge I do a lot of research, actual and through the internet about my areas of interest. Music is not my proffesion but its a new found passion. I do not think there is any harm in researching, on the contrary its very beneficial if read meaningfully. I do not follow any forum or thread blindly, else I would agree with everything you have to say, as you introduced me to music.

Regarding not Googling and writing about personal experiences. I strongly disagree. If I was to buy a car, I wont be able to have actual ownership experience of every car even before owning it, or test ride of every car before I buy it. I would do intensive research, consult experts like you and make an informed decision based on the feedback. This is what I do.

Regardless of everything said above, I respect you Sam for your honesty, and your constant advice in this forum. I might disagree with you on certain points, might consult you with others, however I feel we all have the right to disagree and still be freinds.

Cheers!

Last edited by aseem : 3rd September 2005 at 01:49.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 04:04   #955
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I have another question...someoen asked will the car (Maruti Baleno) alternator o/p be enuf to Power the JBL 67*4 RMS Amp CS50.4 and the 204 watt RMS JBL GTO 301.1...Sam..your comments here..I do not want to un into an electrical trouble...do let me know..the total RMS power needed seems to be close to 471 watts..
reg
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Old 3rd September 2005, 05:13   #956
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Originally Posted by Buffetfan
I have another question...someoen asked will the car (Maruti Baleno) alternator o/p be enuf to Power the JBL 67*4 RMS Amp CS50.4 and the 204 watt RMS JBL GTO 301.1...Sam..your comments here..I do not want to un into an electrical trouble...do let me know..the total RMS power needed seems to be close to 471 watts..
reg
While we wait for Sam to confirm, here is what I have found out. The alternator is what supplies electricity to your car when the engine is running, and recharges the car's battery.
When the car is turned off, the battery supplies any needed current.
The amp you are running is CS 50.4 and provides 50 W RMS * 4 in 4 ohm mode in which you will be running it.
Of what I have found out in little time is that Baleno 1.6 has 55 ampere oc current. Take 75% of that 55 amps, and subtract it from 55 amps. This is ROUGHLY the amount of current available in the car to drive to music system as the rest is used by the internal requirements of the car. So in your case is 55 - 41 = 14.
Multiply 14 * 12 = 168. That's how many watts of amplifiers, total (RMS, not Max) your alternator should be able to handle.
If you add 204 Watt GTO 301.1 your power need increases by 204 watts, so you have to factor that in. In US/Europe people change/modify the existing alternator.
If the alternator could not maintain its target output voltage under the tougher load from the high current amplifier (RMS hungry), the HC amplifier would not be able to produce as much power as the non high current amplifier (lower RMS hungry).

Last edited by aseem : 3rd September 2005 at 05:23.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 05:38   #957
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Hi,
just curious...I could not find Baleno's alternator rating anywhere...where did you find it..let me know
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Old 3rd September 2005, 08:13   #958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan
I have another question...someoen asked will the car (Maruti Baleno) alternator o/p be enuf to Power the JBL 67*4 RMS Amp CS50.4 and the 204 watt RMS JBL GTO 301.1...Sam..your comments here..I do not want to un into an electrical trouble...do let me know..the total RMS power needed seems to be close to 471 watts..
reg
It'll be just fine Buffet... it will. It's been done lots of times before.
Go right ahead with no modification.
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Old 3rd September 2005, 08:44   #959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffetfan
Hi,
just curious...I could not find Baleno's alternator rating anywhere...where did you find it..let me know
I had got all the information about the alternator and its effect from GOOGLE after spending about 30 minutes to find the spec of your alternator and effects of running an overpowered amplifier with under rated alternator. I would have been happy to share the links, however I think Sam has cleared things up so its meaningless now. Go with the setup with your eyes closed!
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Old 3rd September 2005, 13:49   #960
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Buffetfan, just don't worry too much about the alternator rating and all that. A capacitor will help when it comes to low frequency sounds. Bass needs a lot of power reserve for good transient punch.

Last edited by Vivekphadnis : 3rd September 2005 at 13:50.
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