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Old 1st October 2010, 22:47   #10426
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@blackfire_9
The subs you mentioned are no doubt more powerful and louder than the Blaupunkt but they don't even come close when it comes to transparency and control. The Pioneer TS dual voice coil sub you mentioned plays hip hop and single low beat tracks decently, but give it something complex and it'll start making its own bass notes. . JBL is better, but again, loses out a when it comes to slightly demanding music. Polk Audio makes some nice subs but they are slightly expensive.

When you have 4 inch speakers in front, you need a sub that can play clean, otherwise you'll miss out on all the mid-bass notes (80-150Hz). So Blaupunkt is a better choice here.

And yes, I'd suggest you go for a Kenwood or a JBL amp. Avoid lesser known brands.

P.S.
I was in the same dilemna last year. I tested all these subs (pioneer, jbl, polk, blaupunkt) and finally settles for blaupunkt.
Cheers mate. All the best for your ICE quest. I can see that the ICE keeda is growing big on you.

Last edited by thelord : 1st October 2010 at 22:56.
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Old 3rd October 2010, 21:20   #10427
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Hi all,

I have decided on the audio setup for my car. Presently, I am going to stick to 6*9 speakers along with a sub, all in sealed boxes. I have not yet decided if the boxes would be 3 separate ones or a combined one. Any suggestions here, whether the boxes should be separate or not? Also how should I calculate the size of the box, can anyone share a formula or something, because I plan on making the boxes on my own.

For the amp, I have decided to go ahead with a branded one, like maybe JBL or Kenwood. But I have also heard good things about Xenos recently. Any idea if their amps are any good?

For the sub, I have to choose a model from either JBL or Pioneer. In Pioneer, I have shortlisted their 1400W sub, but am confused about a thing, which i have asked below.

Following are some questions/doubts I had, please help me with these.

1. Pioneer has 3 sub-woofers mentioned on it's website, namely TS-W1208D2, TS-W1208D4 & TS-W1208F. What is the difference between these 3 models & also how does it matter if the sub is 4-ohm or 2-ohm?

2. Any list for the JBL subs available in India? I am looking at 12", & the website only shows CS1214, anything from GT5 or GTO series? I am more inclined towards JBL than Pioneer. Also, I am looking at buying a sub from the grey market, & not looking at spending more than 3K, maybe another Rs.500 if something better is available. ANy idea on Kenwood subs?

3. In 6*9 speakers, what is the difference between JBLs' GTO947 & GTO 948 speakers? Which one's better? 947s had a black grill.

4. I have decided to go in for a branded amplifier, & have decided two brands. One of the choices is JBL & the other one is Kenwood. In JBL, I have shortlisted GT5-S644 as suggested by many on this forum. From Kenwood, which model(s) would fit my requirements? I am not looking at spending more than 6.5K for an amplifier.

Drive safe.

@lord: True, the keeda has in fact grown exponentially in my case

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 3rd October 2010 at 21:37.
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Old 4th October 2010, 11:30   #10428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
For the amp, I have decided to go ahead with a branded one, like maybe JBL or Kenwood.
For the sub, I have to choose a model from either JBL or Pioneer.

1. Pioneer has 3 sub-woofers mentioned on it's website, namely TS-W1208D2, TS-W1208D4 & TS-W1208F. What is the difference between these 3 models & also how does it matter if the sub is 4-ohm or 2-ohm?

2. Any list for the JBL subs available in India? ANy idea on Kenwood subs?

3. In 6*9 speakers, what is the difference between JBLs' GTO947 & GTO 948 speakers? Which one's better? 947s had a black grill.

4. I have decided to go in for a branded amplifier, & have decided two brands. One of the choices is JBL & the other one is Kenwood. In JBL, I have shortlisted GT5-S644 as suggested by many on this forum. From Kenwood, which model(s) would fit my requirements? I am not looking at spending more than 6.5K for an amplifier.
1. 4 ohm subs demand less from the amp so a lesser amp will be able to drive them safely.

2. For JBL equipment look at IndiaJBL.com. For Kenwood equipment look at india.kenwood.com.

3. The 947SE is a special edition for India. You might find it a bit brighter than the 948.

4. Kenwood's equivalent amp is the 8404. There is a newer 9405 that is also available for a bit more.
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Old 4th October 2010, 20:31   #10429
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^^ Hey navin, thanks for your response. I spoke to a representative of Sahil International & got to know of the sub-woofer models available in JBL in my budget. For the sake of sharing information, those models are CS-1215 (as listed on their website), GT5-S12 & GTO1214. GT5-S12 is a model that has now been discontinued. GTO1214 has a MRP of approx. Rs. 7K & it is out of my budget though.

As for subs from Kenwood, I think I asked the question wrongly. What I had actually meant to ask was a feedback on Kenwood subs. Would you be having any sort of feedback on them? Or anybody else on this forum?

Here is the list that has been finalized, except for the sub, in which I am still in doubt whether to go in for a Kenwood sub or Pioneer sub. Please provide feedbacks. I am looking at getting the install done in a day or two & would appreciate any sort of feedback.

The list of things going in:

1. Speakers: 4" co-axials from JBL for front, 6*9 speakers at the rear. - 5K
2. Amplifier: JBL GT5-S644 - 5.4K
3. Box: For woofer & rear speakers - Rs. 850
4. Sub-woofer: Pioneer TS-W1208D4 or, Kenwood KFC-W3012 (both from grey market) - 3K approx.

Doubt: From whatever I have learnt, I somehow am not convinced that the D4 can go with the amplifier I have chosen. Although all the shopkeepers in my area are selling this woofer from Pioneer. As far as I understand, this particular model (D4) has two voice coils, each of which is 4 ohms & the total would be 8 ohms if joined in series. There is another model D2, in which the two voice coils are of 2 ohms each, but it's not available in grey market. Can anybody tell me if the D4 can be used in my setup or not? Can the two coils be joined in parallel & then connected to the sub, instead of series?

Also, which type of amplifier is better, class AB or class D?

Drive safe.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 4th October 2010 at 20:43.
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Old 4th October 2010, 20:48   #10430
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For Sub Woofer Applications Class D should be fine.
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Old 5th October 2010, 22:50   #10431
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Hi all,

There's been a little change of plans. I lost almost half of what I had finally decided on spending. I will post the details in a bit, but can anybody tell me the cost of Scosche amp kit?

Also, does anybody have any idea on the cost of Pioneer TS-W1208D2 sub with bill (not grey market)?

I need a prompt reply please.

Regards.
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Old 6th October 2010, 11:07   #10432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
2. Amplifier: JBL GT5-S644 - 5.4K
4. Sub-woofer: Pioneer TS-W1208D4

There is another model D2, in which the two voice coils are of 2 ohms each, but it's not available in grey market. Can anybody tell me if the D4 can be used in my setup or not?
Get the D2 and wire the coils in series. the JBL amp (when bridged) will be most effcient driving 4 ohms not 8 ohms or 2 ohms. If you cant get the D2 then the D4 will work only the SPL will be a bit low (given that the amp will be putting out a little less power @ 8ohms instead of 4 ohms).

Last edited by navin : 6th October 2010 at 11:12.
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Old 6th October 2010, 11:19   #10433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
^^
Doubt: From whatever I have learnt, I somehow am not convinced that the D4 can go with the amplifier I have chosen. Although all the shopkeepers in my area are selling this woofer from Pioneer. As far as I understand, this particular model (D4) has two voice coils, each of which is 4 ohms & the total would be 8 ohms if joined in series. There is another model D2, in which the two voice coils are of 2 ohms each, but it's not available in grey market. Can anybody tell me if the D4 can be used in my setup or not? Can the two coils be joined in parallel & then connected to the sub, instead of series?

Also, which type of amplifier is better, class AB or class D?

Drive safe.


Hey,
The D4 can also be wired to a 2ohm load if you connect them in parallel. this is exactly how i am running my old 307D4 off a R 500.1 @ 2 ohm load. you can have a look at this for reference. Rockford Fosgate® - R500-1
This is from the rockford fosgate website and should help with the wiring of a DVC 4 OHM sub. click on the tab which has wiring wizard written on it.

Last edited by lilMonSter : 6th October 2010 at 11:20.
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Old 6th October 2010, 22:04   #10434
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@lilmonster: Hey there mate, thanks for the information & the link as well. However, I was able to get the D2 model, which comes with 2 ohm voice coils & hence when connected in series becomes 4 ohms.

@navin: Yes, I got the D2 now. Will share the details of the install by tomorrow.

Drive safe.
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Old 6th October 2010, 22:26   #10435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMonSter View Post
Hey,
The D4 can also be wired to a 2ohm load .. this is exactly how i am running my old 307D4 off a R 500.1 @ 2 ohm load.
black fire is not using a monoblock instead he is using a stereo amp bridged.
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Old 7th October 2010, 00:59   #10436
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Folks, help me out here for a <20k ice for my i10.
I dont listen to music out loud...at all. My requirement is a bluetooth HU for phone and quality of music (soft rock, swing, jazz, etc)..a lot of knopfler.

Can someone help me out with a sample setup with prices?

I've been juggling with the idea of
HU : kenwood U546BT
front compos: jbl 608c/ illusion el6.1 / infinity 6030cs
rear door speakers only ( dont like music from behind the head,etc, etc), not very imp since doesnt affect me much. - some JBL 6.5 speakers
wiring - regular or some specific quality?
labour- ?

any help and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
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Old 7th October 2010, 10:08   #10437
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mailmaldi View Post
Folks, help me out here for a <20k ice for my i10.
I've been juggling with the idea of
HU : kenwood U546BT
front compos: jbl 608c/ illusion el6.1 / infinity 6030cs
rear door speakers only
wiring - regular or some specific quality?
labour- ?.
The HU you have chosen is good so are the speakers. I would listen to the speakers as echof them are a little different in tone and you mgiht prefer a speaker other than one that is suggested by others. JBL and Infinity are sister companies so dealers that stock JBL should also stock Infinity.
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Old 7th October 2010, 11:47   #10438
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Post 4 channel amp with 2 ohm load

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
black fire is not using a monoblock instead he is using a stereo amp bridged.
Navin, Noob question. are most 4 channel amplifiers designed to drive a 4 ohm load or is it possible to run a 2 ohm load, say a sub by bridging two channels. what would be the disadvantages of running a 2 ohm load off a 4 channel amplifier. would running a 2 ohm load stress the amplifier beyond it's capabilities?
Also one more thing, how can you damage the mosfet power supply in an amplifier. i had blown one of my amps a while ago and was wondering if a shoddy wiring job (read : leaking earth at some point in the wire chain) could have caused it. of course i never went back to that installer again.
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Old 7th October 2010, 17:11   #10439
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Hi guys,

I got my install done. There were some changes in the things I chose, the details are as below:

1. Amp: Kenwood KAC-M845 - 5.5K
2. Sub: Pioneer TS-W1208D2 - 3.6K (had also auditioned JBL S12, but liked Pioneer better)
3. Wiring: JBL (original, it was same as Sam posted on some thread, rectangular clear plastic box) - 2K + .6K (for an extra RC)
4. Box: Self made
5. Speakers: 4" JBL at front & 6*9 JBL 947 at rear - 5K
6. Extra switch: to switch off the amp so that only front speakers work (to stay vary of the parking guys) - Rs. 50
7. Woofer protective grill - Rs. 100
8. Male female connectors - Rs. 100

Total: 17K (initial budget was around 10K), all the things purchased are with bill & warranty.

I am happy with the sound, adjusted it according to my taste with just enough bass. Please pour in your comments, including on the prices (I know though that I have already paid). The install took place last evening, will take the pictures this weekend once the car is cleaned thoroughly from the inside

Problem/Doubt: Guys, there is this peculiar thing I noticed with the sub today morning. Please have a look at the picture below, notice the region between the two red circles. This is the area where the rubber surround meets the cone & is pasted to it.

Name:  92tsw308d2_d4_es_ts_w1208d2_250x250.jpg
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Size:  10.7 KB

In my sub, this area did not have any gaps when I saw it. But today morning, I noticed that there are gaps, not too wide, but my car key & a toothpick's unsharp end is able to get into it. I don't suspect any leakage, but I am surprised as to how this gap came. I went back to the dealer today & checked on another sub which was installed in his shop (same model) & it also had inconsistent gaps in this region, although they were not that wide (toothpick's diameter) in my opinion. I have spoken to a company representative (Pioneer) & am going to show the woofer to him tomorrow, but can anybody throw some light on why this can happen if this is a problem? Please help me, I need some information or guidance urgently with this issue.

Drive safe.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 7th October 2010 at 17:15.
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Old 8th October 2010, 11:07   #10440
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilMonSter View Post
Navin, Noob question. are most 4 channel amplifiers designed to drive a 4 ohm load or is it possible to run a 2 ohm load, say a sub by bridging two channels. what would be the disadvantages of running a 2 ohm load off a 4 channel amplifier. would running a 2 ohm load stress the amplifier beyond it's capabilities?
Also one more thing, how can you damage the mosfet power supply in an amplifier. i had blown one of my amps a while ago and was wondering if a shoddy wiring job (read : leaking earth at some point in the wire chain) could have caused it. of course i never went back to that installer again.
most 4 ch. car amps can be bridged to drive 2 channels. however in most cases the nominal impedance of the load should be 4 ohms or more. This in effect means that each of the bridged channels "will see" 2 ohms. Since the nominal load is exactly that - nominal - the load of a loudsperaker especially woofers (which have rather inductance) is reactive and can fluctuate from Rnom/2 to Rnom x 10. So a woofer that has a nomnial impedance of 4 ohms can see it's impedance fall to as low as 2 ohms and peak to as high as 40 ohms. Now when the woofer's impedeance is 2 ohms, each channel of a bridged amplifer will see 1 ohms and most amps aere not happy driving 1 ohms. A few years ago (1985 I think) Dave Wilson produced a studio monitor (later nicknamed Wilson Audio's Tiny Tot) that had a Rmin of 1ohms. I meant that very very few amplifers were suitbale for this speaker (since most home amplifiers are designed to function most effciently between 4ohms and 8 ohms).

MOSFET power supply? Do you mean MOSFET power transistor? Most car amps use SMPS power supplies. Damaging an amp is easy. Just short the output terminals!

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
In my sub, this area did not have any gaps when I saw it. But today morning, I noticed that there are gaps, not too wide, but my car key & a toothpick's unsharp end is able to get into it. I don't suspect any leakage, but I am surprised as to how this gap came. I went back to the dealer today & checked on another sub which was installed in his shop (same model) & it also had inconsistent gaps in this region, although they were not that wide (toothpick's diameter) in my opinion. I have spoken to a company representative (Pioneer) & am going to show the woofer to him tomorrow, but can anybody throw some light on why this can happen if this is a problem? Please help me, I need some information or guidance urgently with this issue.
This might be a manufacturing defect and if not too big (I cant tell the extent from the picture) it can be fixed rather easily.

The surrund can be carefully glued back to the cone.
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