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Old 4th December 2010, 21:04   #10576
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Default Amp Wiring

Hi guys,
A quick question(s).
I recently got my Install done:-

Kenwood KAC M845( 60wx2 and 180Wx1 for sub), Bull Audio components, Bull Audio Sub(200w RMS), Scosche 10AWG Amp Wiring kit

Upon observation of the Amp wiring kit , I found this :-
Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!-power-001.jpg

Now according to this, the maximum SUGGESTED current that can be drawn from the wire @ 17 feet is 20 AMP, I found, from the specs of the AMP that the peak power required by it 36A. So my questions are :-

1. Is is advisable to run the setup on this 10 AWG power wire?

2. I listen to a mix of moderate volumes, little high volumes and occasional earthquakes , so hypothetically the AMP should be using more than half the peak current say about 25 AMP or more, in which case, I'm maxxing out the capacity of the Power wire, can this harm any of my electronic components in the long run?

3. Am I limiting the performance of the Amplifier by using the 10AWG instead of 8AWG?

Looking forward to your valuable inputs.

Cheers

GT
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Old 6th December 2010, 10:18   #10577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt500 View Post
Kenwood KAC M845( 60wx2 and 180Wx1 for sub), Bull Audio components, Bull Audio Sub(200w RMS), Scosche 10AWG Amp Wiring kit

1. Is is advisable to run the setup on this 10 AWG power wire?

2. I listen to a mix of moderate volumes, little high volumes and occasional earthquakes , so hypothetically the AMP should be using more than half the peak current say about 25 AMP or more

3. Am I limiting the performance of the Amplifier by using the 10AWG instead of 8AWG?
For a single 845 use a 8AWG kit. I suspect the difference in pricing wont be that much.
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Old 6th December 2010, 10:22   #10578
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@Navinji

Thanks for the reply, but as I have already got the 10AWG installed, hence I asked the questions above.

That is it harmful in the long run for me to run this setup?

or more importantly am I restricting the maximum performance of the Amplifier by not providing it enough juice? and therefore not being able to extract every bit out of my system, as frankly setting the gains at about 70%, the volume isn't that great..

Cheers

GT

PS: the sub Box design you gave me was fabulous and it worked out great!! Many thanks

Last edited by GT500 : 6th December 2010 at 10:29.
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Old 6th December 2010, 10:51   #10579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt500;2164619

That is it harmful in the long run for me to run this setup?

or more importantly [U
am I restricting the maximum performance[/u] of the Amplifier by not providing it enough juice?

PS: the sub Box design you gave me was fabulous and it worked out great!! Many thanks
1. No it is not harmful.
2. yes you are limiting the amplifier's peak performance
3. Welcome. I am happy when I can be of any help.
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Old 6th December 2010, 14:22   #10580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
ankit, for around 5K, you can get the GTO 1214 sub. It's a decent sub, & I would have gone for it if only I had wanted to spend 5K on a sub. Try it out, if you cannot find it in gurgaon, contact supreme, they would help you out.

Also as sukhjot suggested, you can try out bull sub as well, which should be somewere close to 4.5K from driven.

the jbl sub is more powerful.

Also, which wiring kit are you using presently? Is it the Scosche e2 E400? Also what was the price of the kit?

Drive safe.
I am using a 8 gauge Bull audio wiring kit from Driven. I don't intend to install a mono amp.
I will be driving the sub by bridging the Ken amp's two channels. Thats why i am not looking for a very powerful sub. Would an 8' or a 10' provide good deep bass? I don't want to use a 12' sub as i need my boot space as well.

I am hearing a slight sound from my tweeters when my the engine is running and it sort of mimics the speed of the car. I am thinking its one of those alternator sounds. Can i get rid of it/ does it harm the speakers?
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Old 6th December 2010, 19:24   #10581
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hey ankit,

I believe that 8" would not be suitable, though you could look at 10". I, however, feel that 12" is the best bet in terms of both cost, good bass as well as service in future (because it sells, it's a running size for any company at least here in India). Also because the 12" sell far more, I believe the price difference between 10" & 12" is not much as the discounts offered are more.

But what I wrote above is purely my opinion. I don't want to confuse you but I simply wanted to share my viewpoint. Also, I doubt that there would be too much of a difference in available boot space with either of the sizes (10" or 12"). I might be wrong, & in such a case, would request the experts to correct me.

Audition a few options in 8" & 10" before deciding. I don't know about the options in these sizes, you can check out the websites of the brands that you are interested in.

Also, for the JBL sub I mentioned, it's powerful, but I am running a Pioneer DVC off that amp. The Pioneer sub is more powerful than the JBL. Also the Kenwood amp gives out only 180W in bridged mode & hence anything above 200W rms is actually more than required. But during my search, at all the options I considered under my budget & keeping in mind what sells, I couldn't find any reason to not go ahead with either of these two subs. Though like I said earlier, JBL was a little expensive but with a better sound output.

The alternator whine as I know it, sounds like an electric motor & the sound increases with the rpm of the engine. it only comes when the stereo is on.

I hope I could be of help.

Drive safe.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 6th December 2010 at 19:27.
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Old 6th December 2010, 21:53   #10582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
hey ankit,

Also, for the JBL sub I mentioned, it's powerful, but I am running a Pioneer DVC off that amp. The Pioneer sub is more powerful than the JBL. Also the Kenwood amp gives out only 180W in bridged mode & hence anything above 200W rms is actually more than required. But during my search, at all the options I considered under my budget & keeping in mind what sells, I couldn't find any reason to not go ahead with either of these two subs. Though like I said earlier, JBL was a little expensive but with a better sound output.

The alternator whine as I know it, sounds like an electric motor & the sound increases with the rpm of the engine. it only comes when the stereo is on.

I hope I could be of help.

Drive safe.
so do you think the 180W power provided by the Kenwood amp would be adequate enough to power subs like that of JBL?
What power rating of a sub-woofer should i be looking at which would be easily run by the kenwood amp?

yes its the alternator whine though its very less but still i can hear it even when the stereo is not on. is there any way to get rid of it?
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Old 6th December 2010, 23:01   #10583
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hey ankit,

From what I know, your amplifier (M845) can easily be used to power the JBL sub (350Wrms). However, the sub would not be used to it's full potential as the maximum power output from the amp under bridged mode for the sub is only 180W.

If you want a sub that is more compatible with the power ratings of the amp, I believe you should look at some subs with RMS figures around 200W-250W.

Experts, please correct me if I am wrong.

Also, I wasn't aware that alternator whine can come even without the stereo system switched off. I think it's usually caused due to bad RCAs or due to some interference between the power cables & the speaker cables or a phenomenon known as the ground loop (don't know much about it).

Drive safe.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 6th December 2010 at 23:04.
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Old 6th December 2010, 23:26   #10584
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^^ In the last line, I had meant to say that I wasn't aware if alternator whine can come even with the audio system switched off.
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Old 7th December 2010, 10:27   #10585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkitPrashar View Post
Would an 8' or a 10' provide good deep bass? I don't want to use a 12' sub as i need my boot space as well.

I am hearing a slight sound from my tweeters when my the engine is running and it sort of mimics the speed of the car.
Dont worry about the size of the subwoofer. A subwoofer with a low "Le" (under 1.5mH should be fine) and low Mms (under 100gms) will be driven well by a small amp. You wont get the deepest bass (as Fs will be high) but what you get will be tuneful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
If you want a sub that is more compatib
le with the power ratings of the amp, I believe you should look at some subs with RMS figures around 200W-250W.
What should be considered is not the power handling of the sub but the excursion. Put 100W at 100hz to a subwoofer and it will handle it, the same sub if driven at 100W but at 30Hz will probably distort. This is because the subwoofer is being forced to move more to produce the same sound pressure level. Then again sealed boxes control cone movement better...so it is not just the sub, but the whole system (woofer-box-cabin-amp-install) that determines the quality and quantity of bass.
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Old 7th December 2010, 18:57   #10586
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Can i play two polk mm1040dvc subs from a jbl 3501 amp without any problems ?
Also would a reverse mount install affect sound quality?
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Old 8th December 2010, 12:03   #10587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
Dont worry about the size of the subwoofer. A subwoofer with a low "Le" (under 1.5mH should be fine) and low Mms (under 100gms) will be driven well by a small amp. You wont get the deepest bass (as Fs will be high) but what you get will be tuneful.



What should be considered is not the power handling of the sub but the excursion. Put 100W at 100hz to a subwoofer and it will handle it, the same sub if driven at 100W but at 30Hz will probably distort. This is because the subwoofer is being forced to move more to produce the same sound pressure level. Then again sealed boxes control cone movement better...so it is not just the sub, but the whole system (woofer-box-cabin-amp-install) that determines the quality and quantity of bass.

I have heard that ID makes good SQ subs. How is the Image Dynamics ID10D4 V.3 or the 8' one? I think they can be run from 50-300W and so might be compatible with my 845 amp in bridged mode.
Also how much would an ID 8 and a 10' cost. I know IDQ are more expensive ones so i haven't considered them.
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Old 8th December 2010, 14:18   #10588
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Availability may be a problem - should cost ~10-12K if available. Also, their performance is no better or worse than other 8/10" subs.

Look for a Polk 8" or 10" in a sealed box. The 8" one can fit under the passenger seat too.
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Old 8th December 2010, 17:17   #10589
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I don't thing any company makes sub-woofers that large

On a serious note, yes, ID make some nice SQ subs.
I would strongly suggest that you go for a 10" variant atleast.
A Dual 2 ohm 10" ID sub should match well with that amp and will cost you around ~11k. Not sure about the 8" version but that should atleast 2k cheaper. Most 8" subs are used in pairs and single 8" would not give you the lows that a 12" or 10" sub can. On a tight budget, Polk 8" subs are a good choice as well but most of the variants in India are 4 ohm Dual Voice Coil which means that they won't be stable on the M845 (unless you run it on 8ohms)

For ID, look for D2 versions only (D2 = Dual Voice Coil of 2 ohms each which would present a stable 4 ohm load to the amp on bridge mode, D4 would mean 2 ohms load to the amp which the M845 cannot take on Bridged mode)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnkitPrashar View Post
I have heard that ID makes good SQ subs. How is the Image Dynamics ID10D4 V.3 or the 8' one? I think they can be run from 50-300W and so might be compatible with my 845 amp in bridged mode.
Also how much would an ID 8 and a 10' cost. I know IDQ are more expensive ones so i haven't considered them.
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Old 8th December 2010, 17:51   #10590
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I don't thing any company makes sub-woofers that large ...

... Polk 8" subs are a good choice as well but most of the variants in India ...
Oh they do make them that large - driven by a fan, operating down to 10Hz or less! Inconvenient no doubt .

All the Polk 8" subs that I have seen are simple 4ohm SVC subs. You can't achieve that price with DVCs.
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