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Old 16th December 2010, 23:29   #10606
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Default Re: CEDIA ICE upgrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post

When budget permits, I will go for a STAGE-2 with rear speakers, mono and a sub.
AFAIK Scosche usually doesn't mention the AWG on its packaging and they dont follow the AWG standard as they mention their wire thickness in MM not in AWG.

As you said that you have plans to upgrade in the future , its better in my opinion to spend a little extra on the wiring to avoid extra expenditure on thicker wire in the future and the exercise of extracting the thinner wire already installed, so get a single thick wire.
Or if the budget does not permit as of now go for TRUE 8 gauge for the existing.

Go for good brands like kicker and Rockford fosgate for powering you setup as you are using good Audio components and it wont make much of a difference as you are ordering it from the states in terms of pricing.Their wire is true to gauge unlike scosche.

Believe me,power wire makes a lot of difference ,it either can make or break an experience even if you have the good speakers/amp but not the adequate wire to enable them to run properly.

Cheers

GT
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Old 17th December 2010, 13:33   #10607
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Default Re: CEDIA ICE upgrade

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Originally Posted by Gt500 View Post
Or if the budget does not permit as of now go for TRUE 8 gauge for the existing.

Go for good brands like kicker and Rockford fosgate for powering you setup as you are using good Audio components and it wont make much of a difference as you are ordering it from the states in terms of pricing.Their wire is true to gauge unlike scosche.

GT
Thanks Gt500. This really helps.

I am also considering GTO1004 instead of GT5-S644. If that is case, I should be going for 4 gauge wire right?.

Going to the shop today evening. I will check with the shop if they have kicker 4 gauge. It retails at $80 in the US.

Yesterday he told me he has scosche 4 gauge as well, but now I understand kicker or Rockford is preferred over scosche.

The reason for GTO1004 is, at the STAGE-2, instead on spending on a mono, I want to bridge the GTO channels to power the sub. I anyway do not have plans to install the rear speaker.
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Old 17th December 2010, 19:23   #10608
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Default Re: CEDIA ICE upgrade

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Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
Thanks Gt500. This really helps.

I am also considering GTO1004 instead of GT5-S644. If that is case, I should be going for 4 gauge wire right?.

Going to the shop today evening. I will check with the shop if they have kicker 4 gauge. It retails at $80 in the US.

Yesterday he told me he has scosche 4 gauge as well, but now I understand kicker or Rockford is preferred over scosche.

The reason for GTO1004 is, at the STAGE-2, instead on spending on a mono, I want to bridge the GTO channels to power the sub. I anyway do not have plans to install the rear speaker.
As per the requirements mentioned on this site (JBL GTO1004 600W RMS, 4-Channel Grand Touring Series Amplifier) the amp requires 4 AWG ,so 8AWG is out of the question.

The reason I recommended you rockford or kicker over scosche is transparency in stating their gauges, where rockford and kicker are clear in mentioning the AWG on their packaging ,scosche doesn't .
And with brands like Rockford and kicker you simply cant go wrong.
Yes you'll be spending a lot more than scosche but then again you are investing one time only and this part of the setup is powering your ICE.

Yeah the 4 gauge kits are available for 80$ on the site above , but I found a slightly better deal,though its a little expensive due to the fact ,it contains one extra RCA which you would require for the SUB ,and has a lot(60 ft) of speaker wire(to wire the components up front),so all in all it works out pretty cheap.It contains anything and everything for a neat install.
Here is the link(Kicker CK44 (05ck44) - 4 Gauge Amp Kits - Sonic Electronix) If you wish you could also go for the cheaper version,but in future when you add the sub, you have to buy the extra RCA and get it installed.

Bridging the rear of the GTO sounds good, the power per channel is pretty high too.

Cheers

GT

Last edited by GT500 : 17th December 2010 at 19:25.
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Old 17th December 2010, 20:24   #10609
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Default STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

Thanks everyone for the help so far.
Got the Scosche E1000 (Rs.3000) which is 9.9mm thick, equivalent to 4 gauge as per the product description.
The shop guy said he can get the Kicker but will be much more costly and will take some time. Called up two other shops, they too did not have kicker or Rockfort.

Did not want to wait further as this upgrade was delayed for many months already.

Installed the STAGE-1 setup today.

Amp - JBL GTO1004
HU- JBL GT5-X333
Front Speakers - Infinity Kappa 60.9 components.
Rear speakers - Retained the stock as of now.
Wiring - Scosche E2 E1000 (equivalent to 4 gauge)

Total expense Rs.30,000/-. Got B&W for all items.

ICE sounds much better now, however my expectation was still higher. Hopefully the STAGE-2 will keep me happy..

STAGE-2 is planned in Feb with Sub and rear speaker upgrade.

Probably I will source the Kicker from US by Feb and replace the existing scosche wires.


Now few questions.

1. I see the LED lights of the GTO1004 stays ON even after I turn off the car. Is this expected. Will this load on battery be a concern if I leave the car for a week or more without powering on?

2. I can hear hissing sound from the tweeters even when the volume is set to 0 level. It is very minimal, however I din't expect it from a good amp. Is this normal with GTO1004? Shop guy says this can be reduced by keeping the gain level amp to minimum possible. Since it is not noticeable as I increase volume, I left it as it is.

3. JBL1004 box did not have a product manual or any other documents. It was only the Amp inside. Is this how it is supposed to be?
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Old 17th December 2010, 21:14   #10610
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

^^ Congrats sj_koova on the setup. it's a nice setup & the amplifier you bought is one great product. But did you sell off the previous amplifier, & if not what are your plans with it?

Anyways, about the wiring, I don't think 9.9mm square amounts to 4 gauge. Did you see this written somewhere on the packing? Can you please post a picture of the same? As per my knowledge, it would be 8 guage (that's why I had suggested it previously for the earlier amplifier) & not 4 guage as you have been led to believe. However, I hope for you that the wiring in question is indeed a true 4 guage.

About the packaging, there should have been the warranty card & a product manual inside. This is how I saw every JBL product including their amplifier "GT5-S644" i.e. the one you had previously. I assume it would be the same way with GTO1004, though you might want to confirm on this. Did you get a proper warranty card from JBL for this amplifier?

As for the noise from tweeters, try switching off the HU. If you cannot hear this noise, my approximation is that it is the alternator whine or one of the other forms of noises that come due to improper installation. Does this sound increase with increasing engine rpm?

Drive safe.
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Old 17th December 2010, 23:03   #10611
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Default Re: STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
Thanks everyone for the help so far.
Got the Scosche E1000 (Rs.3000) which is 9.9mm thick, equivalent to 4 gauge as per the product description.
You are welcome.

Though I think this chart may come in handy for you for the correct AWG to mm conversion:-

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...tml#post257692

As per this chart 4 gauge is 25 mm sq.


Cheers

GT
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Old 18th December 2010, 02:52   #10612
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Default Re: STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
Congrats sj_koova on the setup. it's a nice setup & the amplifier you bought is one great product. But did you sell off the previous amplifier, & if not what are your plans with it?
Thank you. I did not have an amp earlier. Had the stock HU and speakers. The stock HU partially failed few days back

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post

Anyways, about the wiring, I don't think 9.9mm square amounts to 4 gauge. Did you see this written somewhere on the packing?
It is 9.5mm diameter. Should be 29 mm square.

Here is the link to the product, where it is clearly mentioned E2 E1000 is equivalent to 4 gauge. Specifically look at the notes.
Scosche E1000 - 4 Gauge Amp Kits - Sonic Electronix


Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
About the packaging, there should have been the warranty card & a product manual inside. Did you get a proper warranty card from JBL for this amplifier?
Yes I got a JBL warranty card for all three items. Also got the bill from dealer.
Only in the GTO1004 box, there was no user manual.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
As for the noise from tweeters, try switching off the HU.
Noise goes when I switch off the HU. It is from the tweeters for sure.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt500 View Post
You are welcome.

Though I think this chart may come in handy for you for the correct AWG to mm conversion:-

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/diy-do...tml#post257692

As per this chart 4 gauge is 25 mm sq.


Cheers

GT
9.5mm diameter equals to 29mm sq. So this cable is 4 gauge, but of cheaper quality. This one retails at $35 where as Kicker costs $85
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Old 18th December 2010, 16:18   #10613
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

^^ I am glad that the wire is indeed 4 guage. I had misread the unit as mm square & hence the warning post. Silly me!

About the warranty, as long as you have the authentic warranty card along with the bill from the dealer, it should be alright. Make sure that the serial number on the warranty card is the same as that on the product you have. Hey, just want to add that I am sure everything is in order, but since the question had been raised about the manuals et all, I thought I will suggest whatever I can.

As for the noise, it is because of the ICE install. I am not knowledgeable enough to comment on what can be done about these noises except that you need to get the setup checked. But before you do, I suggest that you speak to some audio gurus here & seek their advice on the approach to be adopted.

Drive safe. And hey, do post some pictures in the Sound show off thread.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 18th December 2010 at 16:19.
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Old 18th December 2010, 18:19   #10614
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Default Re: STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by sj_koova View Post
Thanks everyone for the help so far.
Got the Scosche E1000 (Rs.3000) which is 9.9mm thick, equivalent to 4 gauge as per the product description.


Probably I will source the Kicker from US by Feb and replace the existing scosche wires.


Now few questions.

1. I see the LED lights of the GTO1004 stays ON even after I turn off the car. Is this expected. Will this load on battery be a concern if I leave the car for a week or more without powering on?

2. I can hear hissing sound from the tweeters even when the volume is set to 0 level. It is very minimal, however I din't expect it from a good amp. Is this normal with GTO1004? Shop guy says this can be reduced by keeping the gain level amp to minimum possible. Since it is not noticeable as I increase volume, I left it as it is.

3. JBL1004 box did not have a product manual or any other documents. It was only the Amp inside. Is this how it is supposed to be?
As someone correctly pointed out, 9.5mm diameter is indeed 4 gauge.

A quick bit of advice, if you do source a more expensive wiring kit in february, you will not notice any perceivable difference. That's my advice and my opinion.
By the way, Scosche has various levels of cabling kits. The E2 series is the entry level and focusses on VFM.

Now to address your questions

1. No, this is abnormal. After you turn off the car, the LED of the amplifier should shut down in less than 30 seconds. If it stays on, it is incorrectly wired and will drain your battery.

2. Reducing the gain will definitely help the alternator whine.

3. No this is not how it is supposed to be. You should have got an owner's manual, mounting screws and warranty card inside the box.

Here is a pdf copy of the owners manual you should have got. As you can see, it has a little diagram for what's-in-the-box.
Owner's Manual - GTO1004 (English).pdf

Cheers
Sam
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Old 18th December 2010, 21:28   #10615
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Default Re: STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
As someone correctly pointed out, 9.5mm diameter is indeed 4 gauge.

A quick bit of advice, if you do source a more expensive wiring kit in february, you will not notice any perceivable difference. That's my advice and my opinion.
By the way, Scosche has various levels of cabling kits. The E2 series is the entry level and focusses on VFM.

Now to address your questions

1. No, this is abnormal. After you turn off the car, the LED of the amplifier should shut down in less than 30 seconds. If it stays on, it is incorrectly wired and will drain your battery.

2. Reducing the gain will definitely help the alternator whine.

3. No this is not how it is supposed to be. You should have got an owner's manual, mounting screws and warranty card inside the box.

Here is a pdf copy of the owners manual you should have got. As you can see, it has a little diagram for what's-in-the-box.
Attachment 470565

Cheers
Sam
Thanks Sam. I was indeed waiting to see your respone.

4 gauge wire - So I would rather spend the money on a better sub.
Kappa 120.9 is in mind. Missing the sub very badly.

#1. Apm LED - I will get this checked ASAP.

#2. Hissing Noise - Yes, it has readuced to a great extend after I minimized the gain on Amp. It sounds better after I set the equalizer to my taste.

#3. GTO1004 - Will check with the the dealer once again. I guess this was an open box. Dealer gave the HU to me to verify and he sourced the Kappa bit later. Both of them I could verify before opening. The Amp was picked up from his shelf by his boy. I did not get a chance to verify before he opened! Probably the boy would have misplaced the docs. Noticed it only after I reached back home.
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Old 18th December 2010, 22:05   #10616
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Default Re: STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
1. No, this is abnormal. After you turn off the car, the LED of the amplifier should shut down in less than 30 seconds. If it stays on, it is incorrectly wired and will drain your battery.
Sam, your response really helped me to resolve this. I just read user's manual and also from google search I learned that the REM wiring has to do its job to shutdown the amp.
Went down to the parking and checked the REM cabling (only through observation). In the frist five seconds itself I figured out the problem. A small thread of copper wire from power cable port was protruding out and touched the the REM port. Removed this and the amp shuts down now within 5 sec.

Poor sealing of cable end. Though the issue is fixed, I will let the dealer know.
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Old 18th December 2010, 22:10   #10617
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

^^ hey sj_koova, glad that the amp shut-down issue is resolved. However for the alternator whine, reducing the gains will serve only as a temporary solution rather than a fix. I suggest you get that checked as well when you visit the dealer next & meanwhile try to get some information on the causes of alternator whine.

Drive safe.
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Old 18th December 2010, 23:35   #10618
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
^^ hey sj_koova, glad that the amp shut-down issue is resolved. However for the alternator whine, reducing the gains will serve only as a temporary solution rather than a fix. I suggest you get that checked as well when you visit the dealer next & meanwhile try to get some information on the causes of alternator whine.

Drive safe.
blackfire,

Thanks from drawing my attention to alternator whine. I spent some time on web and have got clue on what could cause this unwanted noise on speakers.

Now I have more reasons to suspect alternator whine.

While I was experimenting the gain levels, I experimented with the FADER on HU as well.
My rear speakers are directly connected to the HU and front components are through the Amp. When I fade completely to the rear, the hissing noise is more loud and prominent comapred to what I hear from front. So it is evident that the noise is not from the newly laid Amp/RCA/Speaker wires.

I had lot of add-ons to my car over past 32 months,

1. Headlight upgrade to 90/100 with relay (additional wiring).
2. Additional hella fog lamps with relay (additional wiring).
3. Power horn (additional wiring).
4. An the latest addition is HID kit (additional wiring).

When I upgraded to HID, the headlamp relay was not removed. HID kit was plugged in to the headlamp relay as the electrician did not want to cut OEM wires.

One of the above or combination could be contributing to the alternator whine.

All these were done at different places and times. Need to get this thoroughly checked to isolate the culprit.

Please let me know if any you have a reference to a good electrician in Bangalore.
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Old 19th December 2010, 00:23   #10619
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

^ pleasure mate, it's what we are all here for.

For an electrician, I won't be able to help you in this regard. May be you can try asking some Bhpians from Bangalore (I am not from Bangalore). But like you said, it's best to get it checked & rectified as soon as the problem area is isolated.

Drive safe.
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Old 19th December 2010, 01:05   #10620
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Default Re: STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
As someone correctly pointed out, 9.5mm diameter is indeed 4 gauge.
@Sam

I'm a bit confused as to the conversion of mm dia to AWG.
As per this resource I googled up (AWG to square mm Wire Gauge Conversion) screen shot of the same:-
Name:  AWG mm.jpg
Views: 48630
Size:  60.3 KB

As per this chart 4 gauge equals 5.19 mm Diameter and if we go the other way round and consider the wire as 9.5 mm Diameter it should be 00 AWG.

I'm confused, it would be great if someone could settle this once and for all

Cheers

GT
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