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Old 19th December 2010, 01:50   #10621
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Default Re: STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

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Originally Posted by Gt500 View Post

As per this chart 4 gauge equals 5.19 mm Diameter and if we go the other way round and consider the wire as 9.5 mm Diameter it should be 00 AWG.

I'm confused, it would be great if someone could settle this once and for all

Cheers

GT
If you consider only the copper, it should be 5.19mm. The rest in insulation.
Jut a speculation, because it appears to be so.

Hope Sam can explain this.
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Old 19th December 2010, 18:24   #10622
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Default Re: STAGE-1 ICE upgrade done on CEDIA

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Originally Posted by Gt500 View Post
As per this chart 4 gauge equals 5.19 mm Diameter and if we go the other way round and consider the wire as 9.5 mm Diameter it should be 00 AWG.
4 AWG = approx 20 sq.mm. of conductor area. We all know that circular cross sectional area is calculated as Pi x R x R. Thus, if you use this formula to calculate R for a c/s area of 20, you will get a Radius of approximately 2.5mm, i.e. conductor diameter of 5mm. Insulation thickness does not come into the picture anywhere.

P.S. The 1004 works just fine with 8 AWG copper power cabling.

Last edited by Bass&Trouble : 19th December 2010 at 18:25.
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Old 19th December 2010, 18:30   #10623
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

^^ Thanks for the clarification B&T, however, I had wanted to ask another thing while we are on this topic.

What is the usual/practised thickness of insulation around the conductor (copper wire). For instance, in a 4 guage wire, we have seen that the conductor diameter is approx. 5mm only & the rest accounts for insulation. This gives us a figure of approx. 2-2.5 mm of insulator thickness at each side of the copper/conductor, so that the total diameter becomes approx. 9.5mm (5mm + 2.25mm +2.25mm). The thickness of the insulation has been accounted for twice as while measuring diameter we would have to include the two sides around the copper wire.

So, is 2-2.5mm the standard or usual thickness of insulation provided? If not, what are the parameters that govern this?

I hope I have been lucid enough to explain my query.

Drive safe.

Last edited by blackfire_9 : 19th December 2010 at 18:32.
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Old 19th December 2010, 19:03   #10624
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by blackfire_9 View Post
What is the usual/practised thickness of insulation around the conductor (copper wire). For instance, in a 4 guage wire, we have seen that the conductor diameter is approx. 5mm only & the rest accounts for insulation. This gives us a figure of approx. 2-2.5 mm of insulator thickness at each side of the copper/conductor, so that the total diameter becomes approx. 9.5mm (5mm + 2.25mm +2.25mm). The thickness of the insulation has been accounted for twice as while measuring diameter we would have to include the two sides around the copper wire.
Insulation thickness is completely irrelevant with respect to power carrying capability, which is dictated by the gauge and conductor material, in addition to length of run. The purpose if the jacket is for insulation, to provide mechanical protection, and to be resistant to heat, oils etc while being flexible enough to snake across the length of the car. Different manufacturers use different jacket thicknesses.
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Old 19th December 2010, 19:26   #10625
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Well adding here since you all are talking wires .
Insulation is extremely important even for current carrying capacity .
You see there is a phenomema of standing and reflecting waves and since you are feeding in AC signal from AMPS/Headunit these will change the end signal at the other end of the cable .
I have a small document regrading this will look up and post , will clear the misconcepotions completely with regards to why some cables are expensive and why they can be better(But we need to take into consideration signal strength and distance transgressed by signals).

Here is one link regarding with animation for the principle.
http://www.walter-fendt.de/ph14e/stwaverefl.htm

I will look up the document with respect to cable and how the above phenomena affects cable and selection criteria.

But hey this is only for true audiophile and requires huge data analysis for just the right cable.
:-)
This is article trying to explain the above.
http://brettcave.net/howto/circuits/cablephysics.html

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 19th December 2010 at 19:45.
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Old 19th December 2010, 20:34   #10626
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
Insulation is extremely important even for current carrying capacity .
You see there is a phenomema of standing and reflecting waves and since you are feeding in AC signal from AMPS/Headunit these will change the end signal at the other end of the cable .
The last few posts are discussion of power cabling. DC current, not AC signal.
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Old 19th December 2010, 22:00   #10627
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

@b&t: Thanks for the prompt response, however, the reason I had asked about the conventional standards on insulation thickness was not because I had thought that there is a correlation between insulation & current carrying capacity. I had asked so simply to enhance my knowledge.

Thank you once again & for telling me that there is no standard followed & the thickness of insulation can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Drive safe.
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Old 20th December 2010, 18:31   #10628
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Sorry , My response is limited to audio signal cable only .
In selecting a cable it is based on the rms (root mean
square) value of the current. The fact is that rms value
produces the same amount or almost equal of energy like that dc.
100 Amp DC = 100 Amp AC Rms
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Old 20th December 2010, 19:52   #10629
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Dear All, I hope that I am posting my question in the right thread. Please guide me to the right thread in case this post is a misfit.

I am planning to upgrade my Civic's speakers.The stock HU (2007 model, Alpine I guess) stays. My original intension was to use a line converter and use an 4 channel amp to power the front components and rear coaxials. However which ever shop I go, the response is to change the HU. I know there is logic in that, but really dont want to do that.

So I have decided to change the speakers for the time being. Later I can add the line converter and an amp. If they sound bad, it can be always changed. I am visiting Cochin (in-laws) and walked to Emperor today, since it is 5 mins walk from in-laws house. He heard my story patiently and suggested Rainbow components (dream, slx) for front and Morel Maximo coaxials for the rear. Total price tag 15k. The expected effect is better clarity from stock HU. Actually that's what I am looking for: better clarity and richer depth, not loudness. Would like some suggestions on this regard. Will this combination work well? Heard a lot about Rainbow and Morel. So Iam excited. My other option were JBL at the back and Illusion in the front (Pune installer suggestion).

Lets say this Rainbow/Morel combination is fine, which amp can be added with a line converter.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 21st December 2010, 12:34   #10630
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Something? Anything? I am in Cochin only for a short while. So really looking for help.
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Old 22nd December 2010, 11:32   #10631
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Sir I am planning to buy this Rockford Fosgate Punch P310G P3 10-Inch Subwoofer or this Pyramid WX81X 8-Inch 300 Watt Subwoofer

Please Suggest , and please suggest a very low priced amp to couple it with ,
Thanks in Advance !
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Old 22nd December 2010, 13:13   #10632
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

@rahulsingh007,
* Which car? (not the 550 I suppose?)
* What else (ICE stuff) do you have in the car? Stock HU?
* The Pyramid 8"? Forget it - both because of the brand and the size
* RF would be decent (not sure of the price, since the item you have given the link to is that of a *Subwoofer Grill*, not subwoofer )
* I think you are trying to get a subwoofer at the lowest cost - not a good policy. Check out other 12" subs - JBL, Blaupunkt, Pioneer etc. - at local car accessory shops, the price difference would be ~1K or less
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Old 22nd December 2010, 18:56   #10633
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by rahulsingh007 View Post
Rahul - P310G is just a subwoofer Grill not a subwoofer...May be you've posted the wrong link.

EDIT: Sorry, saw DA's post after my posting. He has already highlighted this.

Last edited by torquarius : 22nd December 2010 at 18:58.
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Old 23rd December 2010, 21:03   #10634
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hi
In my car, we have taken pre-outs from the mainboard of the stock headunit. The rear pre-outs are used to drive the subwoofer.
Now, today, I faded the headunit output all the way to rear. Then, while it was faded completely at rear I faded it all the way to left and then right. Whenever I faded to extreme left or extreme right the subwoofer output used to decrease and it would play at a lower volume.

IS THIS NORMAL?
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Old 23rd December 2010, 21:18   #10635
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

^^ I can't be sure of the cause, but I feel this is not correct. In my car, something similar happened. The HU's sub control when moved towards minus(-) makes one the subs fire harder & decreases the output of the other. The vice-versa happens when the sub control is moved towards the plus (+).

Drive safe.
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