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Old 6th September 2005, 12:31   #1081
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi
Ajay the 504 is good VFM. However if you can afford it, the JBL CS50.4 would be ideal for your ovals+compos
Sam, i'm going to try and stretch my budget and see if i can buy the 50.4, but I just want to know if the JBL out performs the Sony 504z in any way, or they just the same with respect to specs and performance?

Kindly advice... TX
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Old 6th September 2005, 12:42   #1082
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k_ajay
Sam, i'm going to try and stretch my budget and see if i can buy the 50.4, but I just want to know if the JBL out performs the Sony 504z in any way, or they just the same with respect to specs and performance?

Kindly advice... TX
hey ajay the jbl cs 50.4 amp outperforms the sony 504z by a long way..if ur indeed stretching ur budget i suggest u go in for the JBL amp only and not the sony..im sure sam will suggest the same..everyone recommends sony 504z bcoz its a steal for that price..if u got the money rolling then 50.4 from JBL is what i would bet on..
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Old 6th September 2005, 12:53   #1083
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Default Music system for swift

Aseem and Sam tks for your advise , was just wondering if the GTO 426 E'S will fit on the swift since space is for 6 inch speakers ?? and the ones you have reccomended are 4 inches ??
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:00   #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzehar



What do you say abt the following Option?
1. Sony 5510 HU - Rs 5400
2. JBL 5 Inch/6 Inch components, I am getting 5 Inch for Rs 4900 in Chandigarh with Bill & Warranty.

This is all I would be able to get in this much budget.
Now Can I fit the JBL components in the Rear Doors/ Tray or is it mandatory to have them in Front Doors... I have a Daewoo matiz. I was thinking of rear doors because It gets very very loud in the front at times. and Moreover the Rear doors don't get opened as many times as fronts, so kind of secure fitment. Also what upgrade options will I have If I go inf or Rear Doors?
How would this setup sound without an Amplifier?

Please clarify the above and I will be the most grateful person to you on this 1000 posts forum. Thank you soooo much. Sam you are wanted too.
Hi ZZehar,

The combination is good. Go Ahead. But put the components in the front, since you drive yourself. It will be a better option. The original fitment on the Matiz front door is only 4". Given that, you could put a 5.25" with a little cutting etc. Of course you would have to use the grill supplied with the speakers.
I always like a well rounded soundstage and so does everyone else in the world. I am not of the opinion that rear speakers are useless and one can save on them. I posted something to mclaren somewhere... Mclaren, if you could quote it here I'd be grateful.

I am glad you are enjoying this forum. This is why we take time out to come here. You are very welcome.
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:01   #1085
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I'm going to install the Sony 504 and check it out.. if its to my liking and makes the sound comin out of the compos and ovals better, i'll stick with it... Its going to cost me around 5500+ with B & W [never buy nething widout them] and the jbl would cost me 9k which is huge diff....
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:04   #1086
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I will have to look for it. I built the amp in 1987 or 88 when i bought the now famous Alpine 7385! :-) It still rocks. unfortunately I cant bear to do anything the smaw way twice so once i had my fun i trashed the papers. besides I have moved 5 times across 3 continents since then.
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:06   #1087
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I remember it used Hitachi plastic case Mosfets 2 pairs per channel each capaable of dumping about 6A. I got all the parts in the US and used the chassis of a burnt out amp. I tore out the innards.
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:07   #1088
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rchimni
Aseem and Sam tks for your advise , was just wondering if the GTO 426 E'S will fit on the swift since space is for 6 inch speakers ?? and the ones you have reccomended are 4 inches ??
Did I recommend 426e? Not in a swift.

If you have the cash, go for a set of 6" compos (606Ce) in the front and a pair of 636e in the rear. Then later put a 4 channel amp, whenever you can afford it. Dont try and fit a 426e in a swift.
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:10   #1089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

I posted something to mclaren somewhere... Mclaren, if you could quote it here I'd be grateful.
ur request is my command sir sam!!! just kidding anyway here is ur quote..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mclaren1885
yup that was the answer i was expecting from u sam(needless to ask i suppose)..but the guy whom i went to enquire about the JBLs told me to look into this particular sony model saying it had crossovers and all that kind of rubbish..he actually try to convince me to go in for boston components followed by the sonys..wonder why is he so reluctant to provide JBL..so just thought of asking u if this series from sony are new to the market or something..me sticking to the JBLs though..

btw i read a few posts were aseem suggested zehar and rchimni to go in for front components without an amp..dont u think it would be impossible to get the desired output from the components running on the HU,not to forget that even rear coaxials are connected to the HU..well in that case i think there is no point in going for components but one can go in for coaxials in the front and save the money (and spend them on a date as u so often say ) as the effect would be equally matched due to the lack of an amp to drive the compos..sam ur views on this..and secondly do u advise only front sound staging and keep the boot empty as aseem suggests,i prefer all round balance rather than having sound staging be it either from the rear or front..over to u for these doubts!!!! hope im not bugging u with my questions,what to do..

sams reply:

Boston is pretty good. Sony isnt. Maybe he makes more money selling other brands
It is recommended to use an amp (however small) with components. If one installs components in the car, without an amp, it is supposed to mean he cant afford the amp just yet and will do so later.
I always suggest spending money on women rather than bad speakers. The results are often more satisfying.

Lastly, I do NOT endorse a view that asks for only fronts for sound staging. I love all round soundstaging. It is always nice to have a loud and clear stage upfront when your driving. This means dont keep your fronts softer. But it doesnt mean lose the rear speakers.
However, rear speakers are almost always bigger than the front (due to the lack of space). The position of the rear speakers allow you to use the boot as a box, as an enclosure giving you a decent amount of mid bass and sometimes low bass too. It is possible to turn up the rear speakers louder (if you feel like turning it up) as normally the rear speakers have a larger come size than the front.
Fronts are positioned in a way that they have little or no enclosure space. As Vivek and Navin will tell you, a box/enclosure is 50% of a speakers sound. Given this logic, you need rears.
That said, if you have a car like a swift: The swift has identical pods for the front and the rear. In that case i will always recommend the front speakers be better quality and louder
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:26   #1090
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posts 1087 and 1088 were for vivek. i forgot to quote him. sorry for any misunderstandings.
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:33   #1091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem
I have an Electronics background with 40+ experience in audio industry.
Hi! I dont appreciate you pulling a jibe at Navin. I really dont.

Since the question was raised I will tell you who we are and what we do.
Sam: I have 14 years experience in audio. I am brand manager and junior director at the company that represents JBL, Infinity and harman/kardon in India. I love car audio and enjoy giving advice here. Since i am very well connected in the car audio industry, it is possible for me to help you anywhere across the country. A lot of people think my advice is good, thats why i keep coming here.

Navin: A man who has no commercial connection with the industry I am in, I look up to Navin for theories on audio and advice. Bordering on the eccentric, Navins posts can get a little complicated to read, but once your through that, it's wonderful!
Only Navin has the right in this forum to refer to me as a "spring chicken" though often he calls me G d! lol I would trust Navins word over anyones on all kinds of audio.

Vivek: I see vivek as a great DIY engineer. Vivek knows much more than he lets on and has no pretentions whatsover. You will see vivek asking for advice more than giving it, but dont be fooled, he really knows a lot.

Aseem: Aseem was asking for advice on this forum a few weeks ago. Today he considers himself an authority on car audio. Nobody else does.
In fact he hasn't tried out any of his strong theories. One of them is to use Rear Speakers as "Fillers" and so on. In fact in his own cars he's done quite the opposite, a couple of weeks ago. So ask him if he takes his own advice.

It is one thing to learn from others experiences, Aseem believes that one should TEACH from others experiences. Everytime he comes across a forum where someone has posted an experience, that is then posted here with conviction. One can only hope that the people who's experience he's depending on, didnt get their experiences from a search engine.
He also believes that he is the best user of "google" and that people who come to this forum need someone to access a search engine for them, as they are somehow unable to do it themselves. Aseems believes he is the most qualified person on this forum to use google, as he probably knows all the right keywords.

Somebody mentioned that every thread Aseem posts on becomes misunderstood and controversial. It's true. I couldn't agree more.

Also I love this thread and I am doing this despite Navin's advice not to. navin.
I know that Aseem will react to my very personal attack and he will probably copy and paste a whole lot of stuff from google right after he's read my post. I promose to not engage further and just concentrate on the love of sound.
Once and for all I'd like to make a clear statement. Rarely will i agree with any advice Aseem gives. Buss. So if you like Aseems advice, go right ahead. I dont think the way to run an audio forum is to confuse the person with 2 exactly opposite solutions. Aseem is entitled to his opinion and anyone that comes here is entitled to listen to him.

If you're wondering why I'm so frustrated, I'll give you an example. Imagine a class where you're a teacher. You teach people that dont know as much as you do. You're experienced and want to share that experience out of the goodness of your heart. Because it makes you happy. Then a student decides he knows more than you and starts teaching rubbish to the rest of the class while you stand and watch. Get my example?? Thats what i feel right now.

I apologise to everyone that comes here for audio advice. I will not engage again, not carry this argument any further. Sorry Moderators, I had to let loose at some point. I'll understand if you delete this post.
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Old 6th September 2005, 13:54   #1092
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To all incl Mods.

I too have been quite frustrated by Aseem at times. It can be very infuriating to offer advise only to be asked the sme question over and over again by the same person only with a change of language. Often the tone is argumentative.

We are all working remotely. None of us can see or hear each others systems. Given this handicap (in the audio world it is a serious handicap) there are no fixed answers.

It is fair for anyone to dispute my statements and prove me wrong I would be glad to learn. I am not to old to stop learning. I dont think I ever will be. Ask Vivek (ref: MP3/ipod). But I will take umbrage to any personal attack.

I participate on a few other audio related fourms (of the top of my head - diyaudio, caraudio, carstereo, hydrogenaudio.org, ilounge) and have not been so personally targetted ever. In fact I have learnt a lot and believe you, me, most of the good stuff has come from people below 30.

It is fair for anyone to offer advice and others to take it but in this business (the internet) nothing can be taken at face value. One should qualify each suggestion or the advise could be terribly wrong.

I dont know if it a inadequate expression, lack of empathy, self righeousness, or what but Aseem's posts often tend to be controversial. I would be very happy if he toned it down a bit. :-)

I woudl like to apologise to all concerned (esp the Mods) as I did not want to make this known in a public forum. I tried via PMs but it did not work.
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Old 6th September 2005, 14:09   #1093
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WOW,

That is going all the way and more .... Away from the actual topic. What you say guys. Everyone take a few days break on this forum and comeback.
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Old 6th September 2005, 14:19   #1094
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nahin....

yeh nahin ho sakta...

guys, i religiously follow this forum and respect the people here, though this is my first public post on it (i gen PM specific queries).

Have learnt a lot from here, and whatever basics i have gained, is dedicated to this one.

Cant bear to see this kinda thing on this forum. I seriously hope things fall back to order.

Chillax guys, have a beer and be back.

Thanks a lot for your advices over time.


Carry on the good work...


Ciao
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Old 6th September 2005, 14:23   #1095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin
ok.
I have not heard the JBL 50.4 or 75.4. I have heard the Sonys as well as Blaupnkt and Alpine. I find the Alpine to be the smoothest but i understand it is 3 times the price of the Sony.

Sony is excellent VFM. Nothing comes close. for 4K.
My home made car amp cost more! with no dealer margins, marketing costs etc...

as far as watts is concerned if you are just driving 4 speakers (no subs) any amp that can deliver 50W rms, 4 ohms,20-20kHz, < 0.01% distortion will do.

Lets look at watts.

Say your speakers are producing about 88db at 1meter in the car with 1W. With 10W they will produce 98db. Now this is at a nominal freq. usually 400Hz or 1kHz. At 50Hz they will produce a lot less say 10db less so you get 88db at 50Hz. This is not an unreasonable level in a car. At this point you can just about make out the sound of your own horn.

at 20W the numbers will be 101 and 91db respectively at 40W 104 and 94db. that is plenty loud. Prolonged listening (45min+) to sounds above 95 db can permanantly damage your hearing.

besides going from 50W to a 100W amp gives you only 3db more - a barely perceptable level difference to the human ear.

Now before I get flamed I wil qualify this by saying that the human ear is very very very sensitive to sounds between 200Hz and 5000Hz and less so at either extreme. On a different forum i have even argued that we today do NOT know what to measure or are unable to use existing/available measurig tools to positively detmine a bad sounding amplifer from a good sounding one. Julian Hirsch (lord rest his soul) might disagree! :-)
Thanks Navin. Like sam says, it does take quite some for people to understand what your trying to say, as your lingo is highly technical.. I have a request or suggestion, whichever way you want to take it...

Why don't u substitute some technical stuff into simpler examples. Reason being 1) not many [inc myself] are/would be able to comprehend what your trying to say and 2) the expert advise you dispense might finally go unused...

You and Sam are doing so much for this form and thread, and I strongly feel everything you say must make sense in a low reach level, so we all can benefit from it... Right navin? becuz most ppl coming here for advice on car audio I guess aren't technically qualified to understand what your saying, a blessed few like Vivek are able to make more sense of what your saying, grasp easily... as you guys are on the same wave length..

Pardon me if I've said something you didn't like.. I'm sure you'd agree that students always have a 1000 requests with teachers...

Thanks
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