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Old 24th August 2011, 10:50   #11026
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
I have brought the 117 now, and will add the imprint kit later.
Congratulations on your new purchase. The imprint kit will make sense only if you plan to go active. Can you give details of the rest of your setup ?
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Old 24th August 2011, 11:18   #11027
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by donarun View Post
Congratulations on your new purchase. The imprint kit will make sense only if you plan to go active. Can you give details of the rest of your setup ?
I am still eyeing the HAT Clarius, but I will not be able to afford them now.

I plan to do ICE step by step - first will be HU and front components (current choices are DLS C6A\DD CS 6.5\Morel Maximo\HAT Imagine, but nothing concrete yet)

Second will be a good 4ch amp plus damping (something in the line of Alpine PDX F4 + dynamat\roadkill)

Third will be a Sub and Imprint kit, and plan to go active along with this upgrade.

Final step will be upgrade of front components.

My choice is SQ and i do not play loud music. I like tight bass, but not necessarily loud.

The budget for this set up is about 75K (25K X 3, excluding the final front component upgrade budget) and I would try my best not to overshoot it by a good margin.
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Old 24th August 2011, 12:18   #11028
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by theexperthand View Post
I am still eyeing the HAT Clarius, but I will not be able to afford them now.

I plan to do ICE step by step - first will be HU and front components (current choices are DLS C6A\DD CS 6.5\Morel Maximo\HAT Imagine, but nothing concrete yet)

Second will be a good 4ch amp plus damping (something in the line of Alpine PDX F4 + dynamat\roadkill)

Third will be a Sub and Imprint kit, and plan to go active along with this upgrade.

Final step will be upgrade of front components.

My choice is SQ and i do not play loud music. I like tight bass, but not necessarily loud.

The budget for this set up is about 75K (25K X 3, excluding the final front component upgrade budget) and I would try my best not to overshoot it by a good margin.
If your aim is to go active, then you have to plan accordingly right from the start. My suggestion would be as follows ...

First step - get the HU + 2-way Front components
for front stage my pick would be the HAT Imagine or something from Rainbow stable

Second step - Ideal way to go active would be to get a 4ch amp (for front stage) and mono for the sub stage. But since you have a budget constraint, I would suggest to get a 5 ch amp, something like
JL Audio XD700/5 | 5-Channel Class D XD Series Car Amplifier
Kenwood XR-5S 1200W Max, 5 Channel Digital Power Amplifier
Image Dynamics i2600 5-Channel Class AB i Series Car Amplifier
Also get a good 4ga wiring kit from RF or Kicker or Stinger and necessary RCA interconnects.

Third step - As you suggested get the sub (preferrably IDQ), PXA-H100 imprint kit and damping sheets.

With my suggestions you are bound to exceed your original budget of 75k , but i'm sure you'll enjoy every minute of your drive.
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Old 24th August 2011, 14:04   #11029
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by donarun View Post

With my suggestions you are bound to exceed your original budget of 75k , but i'm sure you'll enjoy every minute of your drive.
Thanks a lot for the input. I will sure ask for more when I start the work.
I know, but I am trying hard not to exceed more than 33% extra
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Old 25th August 2011, 23:33   #11030
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Default Alpine PXE-H650 System Integration Audio Processor

Hello gurus,

after mix and match for my oem linea head unit i have found a DSP from alpine which looks promising.

Alpine PXE-H650 System Integration Audio Processor

I has a 512 band equalizer with time correction. if its correct i think time corrections is digital time alignment, right?

Other features as below.


Technology IMPRINT sound tuning
The PXE-H650 takes the guesswork out of system setup with the impressive automatic sound tuning feature. Connect the included microphone and place it in your preferred listening position in the vehicle. IMPRINT will analyze the acoustics in each listening position, adjusting the sound so that any seat in the car can be the best seat in the house.

Auxiliary Input
When the auto ranging input is used for the main signal, the RCA inputs can be used for an auxiliary source.

Outputs
There are seven RCA outputs:
Left/Right Front (1): high-pass; use for tweeters in a bi-amp front component set
Left/Right Front (2): band-pass or high-pass; band-pass for woofers in a bi-amp front component set or high-pass for a component set (not bi-amp) or full range speakers
Left/Right Rear: high-pass; rear speakers
Sub: single subwoofer output jack

AntEQ
The AntEQ analyzes the factory radio output relative to the fixed test sound patterns, and removes any equalization; creating a flat, full range signal.

MultEQ
The Audyssey MultEQ uses the setup disc and included microphone to measure the effect the car has on the test track output. Absorption by soft surfaces, reflection by hard surfaces, and delay caused by speaker placement are measured at several listening positions (4 minimum, 8 maximum). Once the data are collected, an EQ curve is created to correct the coloring of the sound by the car's interior and each channel (up to seven) is time aligned to optimize the image at the first two listening positions (the first two positions are memorized as user presets). Optimum crossover points (if needed) are also measured and saved for each channel.

Auto Ranging Input
Once connected, the first step in the automatic calibration is measuring and compensating for the factory output so each channel is at the correct level. Before starting, the balance and the fader are centered, and the volume is set to approximately 3/4 (the volume on the factory radio is left here, future volume adjustments are made using the PXE-H650's remote control.

Product Details
System integration sound processor for use when adding amps to a factory system
Four sets of preamp outputs (front 1, front 2, rear, and subwoofer)
Imprint sound technology with a 512-band EQ and time correction
Manually adjustable 3-band parametric EQ
High- and low-pass filters
Included microphone allows custom sound shaping for your vehicle
__________________________________________________ _____________

the second option i have is tearing apart the head unit and soldering a RCA out cable directly from DSP and bypassing the power amp IC.
however i dont know how this will sound.

I need to decide quickly as if i opt for the alpine DSP then my friend will carry it from the US.

suggest the best bet
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Old 26th August 2011, 11:05   #11031
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Default Re: Alpine PXE-H650 System Integration Audio Processor

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
Hello gurus,

after mix and match for my oem linea head unit i have found a DSP from alpine which looks promising.

Alpine PXE-H650 System Integration Audio Processor
Some 2 years ago my wife has one of these installed in her ANHC because she wanted to retain the stock dash (dash kits came to the market later).

What we realised is that Alpine gives you little control over the tone settings (those 512 bands). THe 4 options of tone that we were given proved inadequate so we tricked the Alpine into giving is the tone we wanted. This required a few itterations of programming and crossover settings (on the speaker and amp crossovers).

As far as TA and impulse response is concerned again there is no control given to the user (except trickery by placing the microphones) but the 650 does a better job of TA than it does of EQ so this part is not so bad. Also my wife's primary requirement was to get the subwoofer to sound like it was coming from the front dash so TA was not too complicated.
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Old 26th August 2011, 11:16   #11032
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Default Re: Alpine PXE-H650 System Integration Audio Processor

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
Some 2 years ago my wife has one of these installed in her ANHC because she wanted to retain the stock dash (dash kits came to the market later).

What we realised is that Alpine gives you little control over the tone settings (those 512 bands). THe 4 options of tone that we were given proved inadequate so we tricked the Alpine into giving is the tone we wanted. This required a few itterations of programming and crossover settings (on the speaker and amp crossovers).

As far as TA and impulse response is concerned again there is no control given to the user (except trickery by placing the microphones) but the 650 does a better job of TA than it does of EQ so this part is not so bad. Also my wife's primary requirement was to get the subwoofer to sound like it was coming from the front dash so TA was not too complicated.
Thanks Navin sir,

I too was reading through some forums abroad and i realised that the tuning part of this is tricky. we need to have multiple iterations by placing the mic at 8 places in the car.

but how is the end result? do we get a nice front stage and basic tone settings? i would say can i set the crossovers to pass 70hz and below to sub and 80hz and above to front and rear speakers, and 5khz to tweeters.
can i set this manually?

do you recommend any better DSP than this? MS8 looks promising but way too high than my budget.
i would dump my hu and go for a better ones than ms8.
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Old 26th August 2011, 12:40   #11033
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

hi folks,

wanted to ask a basic noobish question.

how does one choose an amp according to the sub? for example, if i have a sub with 300wrms and 1200 peak, what should the optimum rated power in the amp be? 300rms? 350rms?

and how does PMPO matter here? both the amp and sub have max power ratings scribbled on. do these matter?

cheers
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Old 27th August 2011, 11:19   #11034
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

I am looking for a HU for my swift.
I came across Pioneer AVH-3350BT.
Although my budget was around 12k and was planning to get the kenwood x7016.Seeing the host of features and especially touchscreen,i might increase my budget to get the 3350bt.(18k with b&w)
Now my concern - Is The SQ even close or is 7016 leagues ahead of the avh-3350bt?
Current equipment :
Infinity reference comps. & 6x9's
Jbl gt5-s644 , 1215 sub
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Old 27th August 2011, 11:43   #11035
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by naturaldisaster View Post
how does one choose an amp according to the sub? for example, if i have a sub with 300wrms and 1200 peak, what should the optimum rated power in the amp be? 300rms? 350rms?

and how does PMPO matter here? both the amp and sub have max power ratings scribbled on. do these matter?
Go by rms ratings and you should be good, not saying that they are absolutely true either.

Quote:
Peak power refers to the maximum amount of power an electronic component can possibly handle for an instant without damage. Because of the highly dynamic nature of many audio signals (eg, music, which accounts for an alternative name, music power) there is some sense in attempting to characterize the ability of equipment to handle quickly changing power levels. But, how small an instant is a matter of some variation from observer to observer and so a peak power rating is necessarily more than a little indeterminate.
source - wiki
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Old 27th August 2011, 13:03   #11036
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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how does one choose an amp according to the sub?
In general one would like a headroom of about 6dB. This usually means choosing an amplifier with about twice the rating required to hit the listening levels you need.

Also the lower the sub goes, the more power is needed. 300W is a lot of power. Assuming a sub with 84dB sensitivity plus 6dB cabin gain, 300W real input to the sub results in 113dB SPL or thereabouts. Not sure about whether the driver can sustain the excursion at that power level, but there you have it.

A 600W amplifier should be fine. Do note your chances of destroying the sub scale with the power of the amp, so a careful hand is required on the volume control.
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Old 27th August 2011, 13:18   #11037
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by cranky View Post
In general one would like a headroom of about 6dB. This usually means choosing an amplifier with about twice the rating required to hit the listening levels you need.
Could you elaborate on this for better understanding please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cranky View Post
A 600W amplifier should be fine. Do note your chances of destroying the sub scale with the power of the amp, so a careful hand is required on the volume control.
Setting the gains on the amp should take care of it, then one can max out (90%) the volume without any worries.
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Old 27th August 2011, 13:40   #11038
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

You drive a Swift Diesel correct? That car has a maximum power output of about 90HP, give or take, and a torque in the 200nm range. Now how many times do you hit max power and max torque? Never? Sometimes? Always?

The point is that any system of any kind needs to have built-in headroom above its normal use cases. So that at peak output, it is able to deliver without damaging itself or anything connected to it.

This is headroom. 6dB is an extreme case for audio, most (car) amplifiers are rated either at maximum possible output or 1dB headroom. So a 300W amplifier is able to not deliver a cent more than 300, at which point it starts clipping and sending large square waves to the driver, which increase the risk of damage. 600W gives you 3dB of headroom over 300W, 1200W gives you 6dB, and 2400W gives you 9dB. In actual fact you will be probably using 50W of power, but much like your car, it will be just ticking over at that level if you use a 2400W amp. You can decide if you want the amplifier to cruise or be at its performance limit.

As to gain - at 600W and 20Hz output, a 12" sub will be undergoing something like 2 inches of suspension travel. This is not safe for most except the highest quality, overbuilt subs. Every power rating is not equal.
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Old 27th August 2011, 13:55   #11039
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Default Re: Alpine PXE-H650 System Integration Audio Processor

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_mechengg View Post
Hello gurus,

after mix and match for my oem linea head unit i have found a DSP from alpine which looks promising.

Alpine PXE-H650 System Integration Audio Processor

I has a 512 band equalizer with time correction. if its correct i think time corrections is digital time alignment, right?

suggest the best bet
Riding the same boat amit! Last I checked on woofersetc.com, this was retailing for $240. Currently I have the Blau 555 pnp and wiring harness for my Punto E-pack. I'm sure I'll be dumping them and go for better equipment. Gosh I'm gonna be kicked out by wife soon! Late september or early october is decision time for me so I can ask my bro to carry it with him.

Is it worth it? Or are we just doing a futile splurge since the OEM HU is what we should be throwing out first?
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Old 27th August 2011, 23:59   #11040
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
1. Did you reverse the phase of the tweeter (that means connect the tweeter wire in reverse phase so the red wire of the tweeter will go to the -ve terminal in the XO and the black wire will go to teh +ve terminal)?
I think we are going somewhere now, I tried your advice, reversed the tweeter wires and voila they are sounding much less harsh now. That metallic voice/shrill in high pitch vocals are now almost gone. I'll do a comprehensive testing with different musics and will post an update. But I think this probably was the issue and Navinji, you are a genius. Thanks a lot.

Quote:
2. Can you take the cover of the XO off and post a clear picture (with component values) of the XO? Maybe we can change the tweeter padding.
Again I worked in the night and couldn't click a good picture :(
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