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Old 22nd January 2013, 10:57   #11956
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
... Infact my HU heats up more that worries me to an extent.

My query: I also have an JBL x424 2-channel amp driving JBL 1150 sub. Amp is connected to Sub output of HU. Also got two Sony 3-way powered directly by my Pioneer HU.

I notice that the woofer sound is more prominent than speaker sound. This causes only bass to be heard most of the times & I feel that the sound is not balanced properly. ...
Which car? Also, you have not mentioned which front speakers you have.

Please confirm: You have a 2-ch amp powering the front speakers, HU powering the Sony 6x9, and the JBL 2-ch amp powering the sub. Right?

Quite simply, your system is badly / not at all tuned. Equalizer and HPF / LPF settings will help only *after* the system is tuned for balanced sound. You could either do it yourself, or get the installer to do it.

* First, disconnect the sub, and set all Tone controls, Sub level and Equalizer to flat (0) at HU. Play some music at the HU (CD or USB) that you are really familiar with

* Set Fader to Rear completely, and set volume at HU to a point where you can hear at a comfortable volume in the rear seats. *Don't* touch the HU volume control after this

* Set Fader to 0, and increase gain of the Front amp till the volume in front seats is just higher than the Rear. In fact, you should have to lean back toward the rear seats to hear the rear speakers

* Set the Sub-amp gain to 0/min, connect the sub, and gradually bring up the sub gain till you just hear the sub (slightly reducing makes sub inaudible). If you want the sub louder, now increase the Sub level at the HU

PS: Don't worry about HU heating - if there is air circulation around it, it will be fine.

Last edited by DerAlte : 22nd January 2013 at 10:58.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 12:47   #11957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte
Which car? Also, you have not mentioned which front speakers you have.

Please confirm: You have a 2-ch amp powering the front speakers, HU powering the Sony 6x9, and the JBL 2-ch amp powering the sub. Right?
Sorry for incomplete info. Below are my details:
Car: 2012 Mahindra Bolero LX non A/C

HU: Pioneer 4590BT

Front speakers: None (There is absolutely no provision in Bolero doors. Installer said he will have to cut the paddings that I didnt like)

Rear speakers: Sony xplod 6x9 (400w) - Fitted in boxes & connected directly to HU

Amp: JBL gt x424 (2-channel) connected to Sub/ rear out of HU

SUB: JBL GTX 1150 fitted in a box.
Connected to above amp.

Actually, the speakers sounds nice for normal songs but got the woofer fitted as I was not happy with the bass output of sony. Sub sounds a bit better with Reverb settings through HU. Will try custom equilizer settings & also adjusting the HPF one by one.
Any other suggestions for above set up?
(Note: Installer was insisting me to buy the 4 channel amp & connect speakers also to amp for better sound clarity, however i choose 2 channel amp due to my limited budget)

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte
PS: Don't worry about HU heating - if there is air circulation around it, it will be fine.
Thanks for that. Cause I was a bit worried due to this. HU heats up less if SUB is kept off. Not sure if console of refreshed Bolero has any space left for air circulation.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 14:44   #11958
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Thanks for the help offroad_maniac.

Another thing I want to know is about the use of a distribution block for a 2-amp setup. I searched on the internet, but the answers are a little confusing. Can anyone kindly address the following?
  • When & why it is used?
  • What will I lose/risk if I don't use it?
  • Are there any precautions/issues I need to be aware of if I install it?

Thanks in advance.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 16:03   #11959
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
... Front speakers: None ... Will try custom equilizer settings & also adjusting the HPF one by one.
Any other suggestions for above set up?
(Note: Installer was insisting me to buy the 4 channel amp & connect speakers also to amp for better sound clarity, however i choose 2 channel amp due to my limited budget) ...
Uh-oh! The installer was right, though his reasoning was wrong - with a 4-ch amp, it would have been easier to tune your system. And the 4-ch amp would have costed 30% more.

Also, though I have no clue about the Bolero dash, it should be possible to mount 4" speakers somehow. Ditto 6.5" speakers in the foot-well. The advantage would be a decent front sound stage.

The main problem now is 6x9 PLUS Subwoofer - all in all, bass heavy.

Try this (without changing any hardware):
1. Set SUB.W in the HU to Off (see Page 11/12 of manual; no output to Subwoofer), and gain to min/0 at the sub amp (And, all other LPF/HPF to off, Equalizer off)

2. With familiar music, bring up HU volume to a normal listening level

3. Set the following with SUB.W CTRL:
- Cut-off Freq 63Hz
- Slope level -12
- Output level -6

4. Now set SUB.W On, and gradually bring up the Gain at the Sub amp till you hear the sub cut in (you should feel it more than hearing it)

5. First check the proportionality by increasing and decreasing volume. Finally, set the bass by changing Output level (SUB.W CTRL) to whatever you are comfortable with

Quote:
Originally Posted by swarnava.m View Post
... distribution block for a 2-amp setup. ...
  • When & why it is used?
  • What will I lose/risk if I don't use it?
  • Are there any precautions/issues I need to be aware of if I install it?
...
1. To safely split one cable from battery to feed 2 amps (saves cable)

2. Either 2 battery cables, or (fire risk) a bad splice if the split joint is bad

3. None. Just make sure the cable from battery is rated for 2 amps

Last edited by DerAlte : 23rd January 2013 at 10:48.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 16:34   #11960
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrous View Post
Run front compos on 2-channels of JBL 1004 and bridge the other 2-channels of the amp and drive a good 12" sub. Let the rears run off the HU.
At the amp, tune the LPF and HPF at 80Hz for the sub and the fronts respectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
HPF at the amp to 80Hz, though it really doesn't matter as those speakers don't significantly reproduce anything lower than that.

Please set the equalizer to flat. You are only setting a biased preference to your taste, and not to compensate for the acoustics. Acoustics compensation is only an assumption on your part; one needs better instrumentation to sense to actually sense it. Nothing wrong with biased preference, but first check what the system is capable of without artificial influence.

Nitrous-anna gave the right config. Fronts on 2 channels, sub on other 2 bridged, rear on HU. Play around with sub phase and positioning till the sub bass integrates well with front mid-bass. Even with both mid-bass (HPF) and sub (LPF) at 80Hz, there is a substantial overlap that you can benefit from. Raising the sub LPF to, say, 120Hz will bolster the tabla/dholak, but it just might pull the front image a bit towards you. Try it.
Thanks Nitrous, DerAlte. Nitrous-anna has suggested a good configuration. Currently, I have front non components JBL 5.25" door speakers, rear ovals mounted on wooden plank will be removed off. Suggested subwoofer is 12" which is of definitely great diameter for the lamda values, should be enclosed in a box which is a bit space constraint for luggage.
1. Any tube enclosed sub-woofer or an 8" sub-woofer can be used instead of 12"?
2. Please suggest 5.25" components and make that can go well with GTO1004 amp in Vista.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 16:49   #11961
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by yogeshnaik View Post
Thanks Nitrous, DerAlte. Nitrous-anna has suggested a good configuration. Currently, I have front non components JBL 5.25" door speakers, rear ovals mounted on wooden plank will be removed off. Suggested subwoofer is 12" which is of definitely great diameter for the lamda values, should be enclosed in a box which is a bit space constraint for luggage.
1. Any tube enclosed sub-woofer or an 8" sub-woofer can be used instead of 12"?
2. Please suggest 5.25" components and make that can go well with GTO1004 amp in Vista.
1. If space is an issue, try to get a fibreglass enclosure made for the sub that will be space efficient. An 8" or 10" sub have a far smaller surface area and as a result will produce significantly lesser bass than a 12".
2. If you can mount 6.5"s, it would be best. The 1004 is a very powerful amp and will work with power hungry components. Look at JBL GTO and power series.
Tip: Damp the front doors and you'll know it is money well spent.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 19:29   #11962
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hi gurus. Well I have a pretty straight forward question for you guys. Considering the sort of discussions going on in the previous posts, i first thought I should come back here later because my query would most probably just overlooked! But what the heck, why not give it a try LOL

Well, the query - I have a Brio EMT with the stock music system and stock speakers from the higher S / V models. As you all may know, they SUCK! I am a musician with a keen ear, but don't know crap about car set-ups and am not a big car ICE fan either and don't have a budget to ICEify my ride too.

So I just wanted to ask if i wanted to improve the quality of sound in the car if I put higher output speakers in just the front will it be enough? Don't need it to be too loud or BANG BANG, but just better bass and crisper sound.

Current set up -

Very basic head unit (of what company I have no idea) (it sucks)

160 watt peak output speaker both front and back (they suck)

What I want - Better bass at medium volumes. No cracking of sound. Multi-layered music like prog rock should sound at least decent and not flat like Hindi songs.

What I listen to - Prog rock, classic rock, soft rock, pop-rock and bit of house

How I listen - Medium volumes to slightly higher volumes when alone.

What I planned to do - Replace only front speaker to something like 300 Watt peak

Issues - HONDA WARRANTY!!!!! Will only speaker replacement without tampering wiring or brackets etc void warranty? Payed for extended warranty so it would go waste.

What do you guys suggest?

Last edited by thumpingheart : 22nd January 2013 at 19:33.
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Old 22nd January 2013, 22:06   #11963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpingheart View Post
... to something like 300 Watt peak ...
How is that going to help? Why not 250 or 500? Just wanted to know your mind on that (not pulling your leg).
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Old 22nd January 2013, 23:58   #11964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte
Uh-oh! The installer was right, though his reasoning was wrong - with a 4-ch amp, it would have been easier to tune your system. And the 4-ch amp would have costed 30% more.

Also, though I have no clue about the Bolero dash, it should be possible to mount 4" speakers somehow. Ditto 6.5" speakers in the foot-well. The advantage would be a decent front sound stage.

The main problem now is 6x9 PLUS Subwoofer - all in all, bass heavy.

Try this (without changing any hardware):
1. Set SUB.W in the HU to Off (see Page 11/12 of manual; no output to Subwoofer), and gain to min/0 at the sub amp (And, all other LPF/HPF to off, Equalizer off)

2. With familiar music, bring up HU volume to a normal listening level

3. Set the following with SUB.W CTRL:
- Cut-off Freq 63Hz
- Slope level -12
- Output level -6

4. Now set SUB.W On, and gradually bring up the Gain at the Sub amp till you hear the sub cut in (you should feel it more than hearing it)

5. First check the proportionality by increasing and decreasing volume. Finally, set the bass by changing Output level (SUB.W CTRL) to whatever you are comfortable with

1. To safely spit one cable from battery to feed 2 amps (saves cable)

2. Either 2 battery cables, or (fire risk) a bad splice if the split joint is bad

3. None. Just make sure the cable from battery is rated for 2 amps
Thanks a lot for detailed reply. Will try that out.

The 4 channel amp was almost 2000 rs costlier than 2 channel amp & at that time I thought that it is not necessary as the HU already had 4 output at the rear as told by installer & basically I have no idea about these sound systems / terminologies
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Old 23rd January 2013, 10:16   #11965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
How is that going to help? Why not 250 or 500? Just wanted to know your mind on that (not pulling your leg).
Well very simply because I had a 260 pioneers in my alto and was pretty happy with that. But I sometomes did feel that the quality of sound could be better. Also I thought why not take it a notch higher than my older car? And it would be pretty much in budget. Don't wanna go any higher because it would be overkill.

I'm not hell bent on that rating. Just something I thought would more than serve my purpose. Also I have no idea which company makes better speakers for sound quality and which for loud music. If a lower rating higher quality speaker will help improving the quality of the sound I would be more than happy.

Usually no one sits in the back so the 160 at the back will just help add in the overall ambient sound. So a good speaker at the front should help. I may be completely wrong.

P.S. -
Quote:
(not pulling your leg).
- Hahaha.

Last edited by thumpingheart : 23rd January 2013 at 10:20.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 10:33   #11966
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpingheart View Post

Don't need it to be too loud or BANG BANG, but just better bass and crisper sound.


What I planned to do - Replace only front speaker to something like 300 Watt peak

Issues - HONDA WARRANTY!!!!!
1. The speaker's wattage rating (even if real) is no indication of the speaker's quality. That said most if not all wattage ratings are not "real".

2. As long as you use the nesscary connectors and do not cut wire your warranty will not be void.

Quote:
Originally Posted by offroad_maniac View Post
The 4 channel amp was almost 2000 rs costlier than 2 channel amp & at that time I thought that it is not necessary as the HU already had 4 output at the rear as told by installer & basically I have no idea about these sound systems / terminologies
The amplifier inside most HUs delivers about 12-14Wrms (4 channels driven20-20kHz, < 0.1% distortion) per channel. Typical schematics shown below
http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronic...ower-audio.php
http://high-power-amplifier.blogspot...amplifier.html

A dediacted amplifer can deliver much muh more
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Old 23rd January 2013, 11:05   #11967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpingheart View Post
What I planned to do - Replace only front speaker to something like 300 Watt peak
I am not sure whether changing speakers alone would make that much difference unless stock speakers are that bad.
I expect changing speakers & adding an amplifier with damping (if possible) will give better result if you are keen on listening to your kind of music.

Quote:
Issues - HONDA WARRANTY!!!!! Will only speaker replacement without tampering wiring or brackets etc void warranty? Payed for extended warranty so it would go waste.
Changing speakers alone can't void warranty. Even for an amplifier, you can either choose an amp that can accept input from speaker or use Hi-Lo convertor.

Just sharing my 2 cents.
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Old 23rd January 2013, 11:06   #11968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpingheart View Post
... take it a notch higher than my older car? And it would be pretty much in budget. Don't wanna go any higher because it would be overkill. ...
Usually no one sits in the back so the 160 at the back will just help add in the overall ambient sound. So a good speaker at the front should help. ...
You are completely right! Changing the front speakers will definitely help, though there is more that can be expected, starting with an amp and later a processor to straighten out the slightly doctored sound that OE HUs put out.

As Naveen said, there is no pointing in going by power rating, especially if the manufacturer quotes PEAK or MUSIC figures. The correct comparison is in RMS.

* What is the OE mounting location in a Brio? I would expect it to be either 5.25" or 6.5". Looks like 5.25" from interior pics. 6.5", which can be sometimes put in a location meant for 5.25" using MDF spacer, would be preferable since it gives better bass. If your Honda service guy is unable to tell you what the OE speaker size is, the dealer will be able to do that by opening the door pad

* Go to some dealers and audition components from Infinity, JBL, Morel, Boston, ... whatever you can get (Sony and Pioneer are not as good). They differ in their sound signature (some are bright, some not) so it is important to listen to them before buying. Expect the components to cost in the 5-9K range (street price, not MRP)

* If you are not adding an amp right now, there are no changes required - the components should fit in the OE location without modification. The tweeter in the set usually fits in the sail panel area (inside the ORVM). The alternate location is 3" above the dash at the bottom of the A-pillar. In either case, point each tweeter at the other seat's headrest - reduces brightness
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Old 23rd January 2013, 11:59   #11969
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Hey thank you so much Navin, Sukiwa and DerAlte. Man most of the stuff went tangent

But I basically got the gist. I'l try and find out specifics for my system and then see what I can do, according to budget and convenience. Once i know a few more things and have tested out stuff i will get back to you guys for more help.

Thank you so much guys. Cheers.

P.S. - Wish I could get like a short course in ICE! Oh well I'm on Team-BHP. I think I have homework to do
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Old 24th January 2013, 21:47   #11970
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Hi,

This is a continuation/consclusion of the issue I expressed in http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...ml#post3008239

Took us a long to get it looked at due various reasons.
Firstly the original installer had a look:
They opened up the wiring and after about one hour told my Brother-inLaw that Hi-Lo converter is at fault and needs to be replaced. But seemed extremely unsure of it.
End result was so much noise that audio was turned off.

Looked to Tbhp for rescue again found this thread
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/ask-gu...derabad-2.html

Contacted that man and after a cursory look told us that the problem is with the LOC and if we replace them with scosche branded ones @2500Rs , that would fix it and asked us to come back today.
Today he opened up the wiring and finally adjusted the tuning and now noise is 90% gone. The final diagnosis:

a) The wires to rear speakers had too many joints and that was removed and adjusted.
b) Gain settings were not good.

c) He says the amp (jbl GTX646) isn't good and advised us to exchange with Sony if possible.

d) Did NOT change the LOC or the wiring and said everything is fine. Added a magnet to a cable and resistors to speaker cables.

HOWEVER the peculiar problem of the speaker making loud sounds when the door is open still persists and despite all his efforts he couldn't isolate the problem.
But having reached the conclusion that it is NOT damaging anything we decided to let it go.
Thanks again to everyone who replied earlier.

Last edited by harshaguduru : 24th January 2013 at 21:54.
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