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Old 19th August 2013, 14:08   #12256
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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One follow up question on speakers. At home I have Harbeth speakers that are known for a house sound across the range that is natural, uncoloured and therefore listening fatigue free. Is there an equivalent brand that is similarly known for this kind of sound across its range?
Ha ha ha. I could tell from your previous posts that you know sound.

No sorry there is no car speaker that will sound as natural as Harbeth does at home. part of this is the environment in the car. With all that glass and odd angles you get a lot of reflection, road noise, and all sorts of demons.

There are some eclectic wide range speakers (most common size is 3" - 4") from companies like Groud Zero (I believe GZ is not making these anymore) and Hybrid Audio (LS4E or something like that) that might offer the level of quality you are accustomed to.

At best I would consider Focal, Infinity, Morel, Rainbow, etc..and choose from these brands. Again do not expect the level of bass-hf integration that Harbeth has. The car is not as forgiving an environment as the home. Your ear is so much closer to the hf than the bass (which is often near your knee).
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Old 19th August 2013, 15:10   #12257
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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No sorry there is no car speaker that will sound as natural as Harbeth does at home. part of this is the environment in the car.
At best I would consider Focal, Infinity, Morel, Rainbow, etc..and choose from these brands. Again do not expect the level of bass-hf integration that Harbeth has. The car is not as forgiving an environment as the home. Your ear is so much closer to the hf than the bass (which is often near your knee).
Understood, thanks.

Harbeths ruin every other reproduced audio listening for the kind of music and volume levels I like, and I realise that a car is by definition a compromised environment. But I want to be able to listen to music that is clear enough to enjoy at moderate levels, and isn't bright at louder ones. Loud thumping is out, I don't want to add more fuel to road rage possibilities.

Thank you for the Focal etc suggestions.
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Old 20th August 2013, 19:12   #12258
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Further to the above, looking at budgets also, what is the assessment of the following elements of a solution:

1. JBL GTX646 amp
2. JBL GTO609C front components
3. JBL GT6 S366 rear coaxials.

As to damping, in addition to front doors and rear shelf, is it necessary to do the rear doors as well, taking into account the fact that they won't be containing any speakers? The car is in excellent condition, with no rattles inside.

Last edited by Sawyer : 20th August 2013 at 19:21.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 09:49   #12259
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Further to the above, looking at budgets also, what is the assessment of the following elements of a solution:

1. JBL GTX646 amp
2. JBL GTO609C front components
3. JBL GT6 S366 rear coaxials.

As to damping, in addition to front doors and rear shelf, is it necessary to do the rear doors as well, taking into account the fact that they won't be containing any speakers? The car is in excellent condition, with no rattles inside.
I have found that damping does 3 things.

1. damp metal resonances.
2. reduce road noise
3. reduce rattles that sometimes comes from parts insude the door.

You can just damp the front doors for now. That is where you will be sitting.

I forget. Is the a Swift? If so then the location for the rear speakers is the rear doors.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 10:05   #12260
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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You can just damp the front doors for now. That is where you will be sitting.

I forget. Is the a Swift? If so then the location for the rear speakers is the rear doors.
It is a Civic - hence the question for the rear doors.
Any comments on the speaker/amp mentioned? If I can't get Harbeth sound, no matter what, the thinking is why spend more than what it will take to get decent enough results. Damp the front doors, the rear shelf, and live with what these units will deliver, as long as it isn't too bright and fatiguing. Or, if you suggest, better front components in place of those mentioned.
In home audio I am now an amp neutral person - as long as it meets the power needs of the speakers, and is of the quality that all modern 2 channel home amps of the many available solid state brands provide these days, the amp doesn't have any effect on SQ.

Last edited by Sawyer : 22nd August 2013 at 10:09.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 10:38   #12261
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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It is a Civic.

In home audio I am now an amp neutral person - as long as it meets the power needs of the speakers, and is of the quality that all modern 2 channel home amps of the many available solid state brands provide these days, the amp doesn't have any effect on SQ.
Then why not 6x9s for the rear deck. They might provide a bit more bass than the 6". Either the S699 or GTO 949 might be a better option for the rear deck.

Oh BTW I am not amp neutral. Why I am not even valve neutral as I have heard the differences between valves even when I did not know the valves have been changed. One of the pairs of speakers I built (using SEAS Excel components and a Fountek Neo ribbon) for example sounded different when using an Accuphase E-360 vs the Yamaha S2000 (both are solid state and about 100W rms and neither is poorly designed). Anyway this is a car forum, and this is the car audio section.

Last edited by navin : 22nd August 2013 at 10:39.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 11:24   #12262
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Then why not 6x9s for the rear deck. They might provide a bit more bass than the 6". Either the S699 or GTO 949 might be a better option for the rear deck.

Oh BTW I am not amp neutral. Anyway this is a car forum, and this is the car audio section.
Noted about the 6x9 suggestion, thanks.

I agree this isn't the place for home audio discussions - the only reason for my comment was to ascertain if the referred JBL amp would run within its power delivery capability, when played at normal - as in not head banging - sound levels, with the referred speakers, front and rear, with no sub to be added now or in the future.
If yes, that is good enough reason for me for selecting it for the amp function.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 14:02   #12263
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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.If yes, that is good enough reason for me for selecting it for the amp function.
The JBL amp will work nicely in this application. No worries about that.
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Old 22nd August 2013, 14:15   #12264
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Great, much obliged for your time and effort.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 06:55   #12265
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Sorry, another question - does the Civic accommodate 6x9 at the rear, without any modification?
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Old 23rd August 2013, 11:02   #12266
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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... does the Civic accommodate 6x9 at the rear, without any modification?
I have a feeling 6x9s will not satisfy you. Since you are getting an amp, get a sub - slightly costlier than 6x9 but much better bass. Put round coaxes in the rear doors.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 12:18   #12267
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Sorry, another question - does the Civic accommodate 6x9 at the rear, without any modification?
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I have a feeling 6x9s will not satisfy you. Since you are getting an amp, get a sub - slightly costlier than 6x9 but much better bass. Put round coaxes in the rear doors.
I don't know if the Civic has cut-outs in the rear doors for speakers. Also the OEM HU will not be able to send a separate signal to the subwoofer hence subwoofer level will have to be set via an add on volume control or via the gain controls of the amp.

Surely a 10-12" sealed box sub (about 1. cu. ft) will give better quality of bass than a pair of 6x9s in a rear deck but you do loose a bit of trunk space and have to also work out a way to secure the sub (for those with felt panels I suggest Velcro).

A pair of 6x9s (GTO949) will run you about 4-5K and a sub of similar quality (CS1215B) will cost you about 6-7k with box plus a pair of 6" for the rear doors will run you about 3K.

if you are going down this route, the amp can drive the sub and fronts and the HU can drive the rears.

If you are used to the bass of a Harbeth Monitor 20/P3 then the 6x9s will be more than adequate. If you are looking at the bass of the Monitor 40 then even a 12" JBL will not compare in quality or even quantity. My favourite Harbeth is the 7E. The bass is very like the Audax 8" TPX cone used in the Dahlia. Sawyer if you like Harbeth you got listen to Daedlus Audio speakers.

Last edited by navin : 23rd August 2013 at 13:47.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 12:53   #12268
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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I don't know if the Civic has cut-outs in the rear doors for speakers. ...
My bad. You are right - rear speakers in Civic are on hat rack. Round 6.5" mounted from top of the metal panel. In GTO's Civic, B&T had them mounted the replacement coaxes with adapters from inside the boot.

@Sawyer, to your original 6x9 question: MDF spacers would be required to mount 6x9 speakers at the OE parcel shelf locations, either from above or from below the sheet metal member.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 13:59   #12269
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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If you are looking at the bass of the Monitor 40 then even a 12" JBL will not compare in quality or even quantity. My favourite Harbeth is the 7E. The bass is very like the Audax 8" TPX cone used in the Dahlia. Sawyer if you like Harbeth you got listen to Daedlus Audio speakers.
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My bad. You are right - rear speakers in Civic are on hat rack. Round 6.5" mounted from top of the metal panel. In GTO's Civic, B&T had them mounted the replacement coaxes with adapters from inside the boot.

@Sawyer, to your original 6x9 question: MDF spacers would be required to mount 6x9 speakers at the OE parcel shelf locations, either from above or from below the sheet metal member.
Thank you, gentlemen.

To the Harbeth comment, I have the C7s at home, the 40.1s are too rich for me, besides needing a larger space to shine. And with the C7s, driven by a Quad 99/909 combination, I am off the upgrading thing for good. Done my share of tube rolling, that is all history now.

At home, I don't go for subs, they never integrate well enough for music to the extent I like, and in the car too, no sub.

Most of the time the listening will be from the front two seats, so I will go with the 6.5 coax at the rear to keep things simple.
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Old 23rd August 2013, 14:06   #12270
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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And with the C7s, driven by a Quad 99/909 combination, I am off the upgrading thing for good. Done my share of tube rolling, that is all history now.
The C7 has been replaced by guess what...the 7E.

I know exactly the sound you desire! If you are usng the JBL component and coax system you have listed I would roll off the hf by about 2-3db. Wish car HUs came with a "Tilt" control.

Enjoy. Check out these speakers.
http://www.daedalusaudio.com/Pan.html

Last edited by navin : 23rd August 2013 at 14:10.
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