Go Back   Team-BHP > Under the Hood > In-Car Entertainment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 23rd August 2013, 15:33   #12271
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,372
Thanked: 1,047 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
If you are usng the JBL component and coax system you have listed I would roll off the hf by about 2-3db. Wish car HUs came with a "Tilt" control.
[/url]
Right, will do. As to tilt control, it would be invaluable. But no home audio maker other than Quad does that either - and most audiophiles sneer at tone controls too. I shall reserve comment on that trait, for another place.
Sawyer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2013, 15:37   #12272
BHPian
 
sai_ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CBE-BLR
Posts: 283
Thanked: 159 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

I have what could probably a "silly" question. If I am to upgrade my front speakers on the manza's stock HU, would it really make a difference with component speakers or am i better off with a simple co ax.

With the limitations of my stock HU, all i want is a set of speakers that play some good/better than stock highs and mids up front and some bass from the the 6x9 behind. Also, the speakers should never ever JAR. no matter how much i push it up.

Another question is my current HU delivers "4 x 18 W sine" (source:brochure). So its safe to assume that this wont be sufficient to drive the speaker upgrade - which would be probably say 65w (auditors) and the jbl gto 100w at rear. In such a case what should be the ideal output of the amp? Should be a 4 channel amp right?

cheers!
sai
sai_ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2013, 16:06   #12273
Team-BHP Support
 
Rehaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 22,313
Thanked: 22,068 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Vaibbhav Nanda has asked this via our Facebook page. Does anyone have more information?

Quote:
Hi

i got the 3sixty.3 processor from U.S, i have been trying to install it here in new delhi,

Please help me with a proper connection diagram for connecting speakers, amps, subs, and processor.

I ve been to few experts here and they have not been able to help me tune it correct, so i think something is wrong with connections.

I have RF-T-2652-s components in the front, same series coaxials in the rear, Rockford P1-2X12 Dual P1 12" Loaded Enclosure sub-woofers.

Amplifiers: Speaker- FOCAL FPP4100, Sub-woofer: RF Prime 500x1D

Also should i run the speakers in active mode or passive?(front comps)

Car: XUV500 W8

Please help soon with a solution.

P.S i am not a member so couldn't post it in the forums, if possible please post this query as more people/experts visit it often.
cya
R

Last edited by Rehaan : 23rd August 2013 at 16:08.
Rehaan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2013, 16:34   #12274
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,314
Thanked: 3,732 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
Vaibbhav Nanda has asked this via our Facebook page. Does anyone have more information?
Best place to look is
http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchf...diagram_lg.gif

http://www.bcae1.com/asystems.htm#4ch7

Since he has RF components RF themselves have diagrams on their website
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/Splas...ia_diagram.jpg

http://ww2.justanswer.com/uploads/wo...5_184458_1.jpg
navin is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2013, 16:58   #12275
Distinguished - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,868 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
... With the limitations of my stock HU, all i want is a set of speakers that play some good/better than stock highs and mids up front and some bass from the the 6x9 behind. Also, the speakers should never ever JAR. no matter how much i push it up. ...
Your HU is likely to produce 'jarring' music on being pushed, and the speakers will faithfully reproduce it. For the speakers to produce jarring music on their own, it will take a lot more power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
... Another question is my current HU delivers "4 x 18 W sine" (source:brochure). So its safe to assume that this wont be sufficient to drive the speaker upgrade - which would be probably say 65w (auditors) and the jbl gto 100w at rear. ...
There is no concept of 'sufficient to drive' - this is not muscle power or engine power. Actual power pushed by amp into speakers depends on volume control setting and the music passage playing. If you are playing loud, a lower power amp, like the built-in amp in the HU, will start distorting after reaching its rated power. An external amp will be able to push out more power in the same situation. The difference is at what level amp distortion will set in AND how easily loud music passages are handled, even with a moderate volume setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
... In such a case what should be the ideal output of the amp? Should be a 4 channel amp right? ...
Yes. Any 4channel external amp with 40W RMS or more per channel into 4 ohms will be fine.
DerAlte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2013, 19:17   #12276
BHPian
 
sai_ace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: CBE-BLR
Posts: 283
Thanked: 159 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Your HU is likely to produce 'jarring' music on being pushed, and the speakers will faithfully reproduce it. For the speakers to produce jarring music on their own, it will take a lot more power.

There is no concept of 'sufficient to drive' - this is not muscle power or engine power. Actual power pushed by amp into speakers depends on volume control setting and the music passage playing. If you are playing loud, a lower power amp, like the built-in amp in the HU, will start distorting after reaching its rated power. An external amp will be able to push out more power in the same situation. The difference is at what level amp distortion will set in AND how easily loud music passages are handled, even with a moderate volume setting.

Yes. Any 4channel external amp with 40W RMS or more per channel into 4 ohms will be fine.

hmmm, so you are saying that my HU is the culprit behind this sound - the speaker jarring one? I am surprised because the volume was fairly manageable and I thought it was the speaker because the left one was not really bothering me. On that premise, a change of speakers would not be of any use ?

And thanks for the explanation of the amp power to speaker. Now to find a decent 4 channel amp. Also should i look for an amp that takes in line (with power-hope i got the terms right) or should i get a line converter?

And suggestions for a simple 4 channel amp? capable of driving these speakers?
sai_ace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd August 2013, 21:05   #12277
Distinguished - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,868 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
... so you are saying that my HU is the culprit behind this sound - the speaker jarring one? I am surprised because the volume was fairly manageable and I thought it was the speaker because the left one was not really bothering me. On that premise, a change of speakers would not be of any use ? ...
Well, not like that. OE speakers have much less power handling capability - so they distort at much less volume. That plus HU distortion is murder on ears.

If you simply change OE speakers to after-market ones, you have to limit volume so that HU doesn't distort. But this volume will be higher than with OE speakers. With an amp, this volume limiting problem doesn't occur till one reaches amp limit (assuming speaker power > amp power).

Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
... should i look for an amp that takes in line (with power-hope i got the terms right) or should i get a line converter?

And suggestions for a simple 4 channel amp? capable of driving these speakers?
I think Kenwood M846 has built in LOC. JBL 646 doesn't, so you will need to get one. Power is drawn via a direct cable with separate fuse from Battery. The amp switch on is controlled by the ACC Control or Power Antenna Control line from HU.

Last edited by DerAlte : 24th August 2013 at 11:41.
DerAlte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2013, 15:52   #12278
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Noida
Posts: 126
Thanked: 17 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hi All;

I am deciding on ICE and need Audio Gurus help.

1. Your Car: Chevy Spark Base

2. Your current setup (If any): N/A

3. Your Budget: Rs. 10 K - 15 K

4. Do you drive most of the time or is it chauffeur driven? Self Driven

5. Your Music preferences (Genres, favorite artists, etc.): Old songs and Bollywood Music

6. Are you ready to sacrifice your boot space/modify door panels? : No

I need a decent setup with FM Radio,USB for flash drive and bluetooth for handsfree(if possible).

Thanks in advance for helping me out.
sparkguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th August 2013, 20:49   #12279
Distinguished - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,868 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkguy View Post
... I am deciding on ICE and need Audio Gurus help.

1. Your Car: Chevy Spark Base

2. Your current setup (If any): N/A

...
Help us help you out!

* Which model do you have: 1.0 or LS?

* What is the dia of the speaker grills on the dash (near either end of windshield)?

* Are there any speaker grills on the front or rear doors?

* Your console has a 2DIN space for putting HU. Do you really want a 2DIN HU (like the one supplied in LT) or will a 1DIN HU do for you?

AFAIK, the front speakers on the dash are 4" dia, and there is very limited choice in that. You will have to replace the OE parcel shelf with an MDF shelf to put 6x9 oval speakers.
DerAlte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th August 2013, 12:14   #12280
BHPian
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Noida
Posts: 126
Thanked: 17 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hi DerAlte;

Thanks for your mail. Please find my answers below


Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Help us help you out!

* Which model do you have: 1.0 or LS? <A> 1.0

* What is the dia of the speaker grills on the dash (near either end of windshield)? <A> I believe its 4''. I am also attaching photographs of both windshield and back in case it helps

* Are there any speaker grills on the front or rear doors?<A> No

* Your console has a 2DIN space for putting HU. Do you really want a 2DIN HU (like the one supplied in LT) or will a 1DIN HU do for you? <A> 1 DIN HU would be fine

AFAIK, the front speakers on the dash are 4" dia, and there is very limited choice in that. You will have to replace the OE parcel shelf with an MDF shelf to put 6x9 oval speakers.
I also noticed (after 4 years) that there seems to be wiring for rear speakers already done. That would surely be helpful. I may also require an antenna.

Request everyone to please suggest setup alongwith expected cost so that I can finalize ASAP.
Attached Thumbnails
Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!-img_20130825_092308.jpg  

Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q!-img_spark.jpg  

sparkguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th August 2013, 12:40   #12281
Team-BHP Support
 
navin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: mumbai
Posts: 22,314
Thanked: 3,732 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Well, not like that. OE speakers have much less power handling capability - so they distort at much less volume. That plus HU distortion is murder on ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
Also, the speakers should never ever JAR. no matter how much i push it up.
How old are the OEM speakers? Often jarring can be attributed to the surronud of the speaker having worn out. If the speakers/car is more than 5 years old this could very well be the case.

Another reason for jarring is if the bass control is turned up. Try listening to the speakers with the bass control turned down and see if it helps. When a HU's bass control is turned up the Hu's amplifier is expected to produce more bass energy and also the speakers have to handle this extra bass energy. Either the HU's limitaions or the speaker's limitatons could be the cause.

Once we know the cause of the jarring then we can find a suitable solution. Meanwhile this site will explain the basics of a speaker and it's ability to handle power (see the last paragraph in the link).
http://lenardaudio.com/education/05_speakers_2.html

Last edited by navin : 26th August 2013 at 16:53.
navin is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 26th August 2013, 13:34   #12282
Distinguished - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,868 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkguy View Post
... I also noticed (after 4 years) that there seems to be wiring for rear speakers already done. That would surely be helpful. I may also require an antenna. ...
Wonderful. That means there is wiring available for the front speakers to, and this will be a plug-and-play installation. Make sure no existing wires are cut during installation - you may have to stand around and supervise. The HU is connected via a Spark-specific harness adapter. Ask the dealer to trial-mount the speakers so that you can audition them. Choose the brand / model that you like the sound of - don't worry, you will be able to differentiate. If the dealer refuses audition - move on, they are not worth dealing with.

1. Antenna could be an internal one (mounts behind the rear view mirror), or an external collapsible one (not sure where the provision is provided in Spark). Costs 300-600

2. HU

* 2DIN HU without touchscreen (should be around 9-12K):
- Kenwood DPX-U5130BT or U5130 / U5120 (without BT)
- JVC KW-R900BT or R700BT
- Clarion CX501A (with BT) or CX201A (without BT)
- Pioneer FH-X759BT

* 1DIN HU (should be around 6-9K)
- Kenwood KDC-U556BT or U553BT
- JVC KD-R90BT or R80BT or R736BT
- Clarion CZ702A or CZ302A (with BT)
- Pioneer MVH-355BT or MVH-1490UB (without BT and CD drive)

3. Front speakers: Difficult choice here, as the low-price 4" coaxials are not very good in sound, and 4" components are costlier than 6.5" ones! There are simple 4" coaxials from Pioneer, JBL, JVC etc. - around 2K or less Go for known brands only. There are plenty of cheap 'branded' ones trying to be in the same league, but they are useless

4. Rear speakers: 6x9 coaxials. Good range, cost around 5K or less. JBL, Infinity, Polk, Pioneer, etc. depends on what is readily available

5. MDF parcel shelf, should cost around 700-800. This would replace your existing OE parcel shelf. Don't connect the rubber-band lifters - the hatch will not be able to lift the weight of the speakers and MDF shelf. Just make sure the parcel shelf is kept free (not screwed down) but adequately padded so that it doesn't rattle when mounted

Please check prices in the market, preferably in Delhi (like Driven, EOK), since in NOIDA there is not much choice. Street prices are generally 10-15% lower than MRP.
DerAlte is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2013, 07:38   #12283
Senior - BHPian
 
ecosport rules's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Hyderabad
Posts: 1,074
Thanked: 1,337 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hi all,

I am looking forward to upgrade my Ford Ecosports front and rear speakers only (no amplifier and head unit upgrade)
Which coaxial (6.5 inch or 6.75inch)gives the best bass output (low hz)without use of amplifier?
These are the products I spotted in one of the stores.

1.focal access 165 CA 1
2.polk audio db651 2 way
3.hertz hcx 165.

Also with the original head unit (when used without amplifier)will coaxials give better bass (low hz) than the component speakers?

Last edited by ecosport rules : 27th August 2013 at 07:40.
ecosport rules is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2013, 12:28   #12284
Distinguished - BHPian
 
DerAlte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 8,076
Thanked: 2,868 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
... Which coaxial (6.5 inch or 6.75inch)gives the best bass output (low hz)without use of amplifier?
These are the products I spotted in one of the stores. ...
* Spotted, as in 'saw on the shelf'? Or did you audition them? Please don't assume that a speaker will sound good since the brand is "well known". Make sure you audition before buying - if possible in your car

* Please check with the Ford A.S.S. regarding the sizes of the OE speakers in Ecosport. Ford usually uses 5x7 oval speakers as OE. Though it is possible to replace these with 6.5" (there are no 6.75" in the market), it would require an adapter. Not sure if the adapter and speaker combination will foul with the doorpad / grill - we haven't seen the doorpad opened yet

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
... Also with the original head unit (when used without amplifier)will coaxials give better bass (low hz) than the component speakers?
No relation to coax or components. Different makes / models have different sound signature.

Components are definitely much better than Coaxes, especially when it comes to creating a good sound image. Apparently the Titanium Plus variant comes with components in front, which means there are designated standard locations to mount tweeters.

Also, don't get fixated with "better bass" - you might lose out on mids and highs, and that is not in the best interests of good music. Good speakers reproduce all parts of music well.
DerAlte is offline   (1) Thanks Reply With Quote
Old 27th August 2013, 23:15   #12285
BHPian
 
autotranny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Hyd, Thrissur
Posts: 278
Thanked: 200 Times
Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Dear Experts,

Is this a fair deal ? OR is this some outdated junk model ? Looking for my Hyundai i10.

Also, will this fit in perfectly to my front door ?

http://www.snapdeal.com/product/infi...59128?pos=1;59

Btw, if its a real good deal, please do not buy out before I do.

Last edited by autotranny : 27th August 2013 at 23:20.
autotranny is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Cayenne" we "XC-eed" in our "Endeavour" to "Safari"? Taking powerful metal off-road SS-Traveller 4x4 Excursions 55 10th November 2016 22:56
sub enclosure advice from audio gurus clipto333 In-Car Entertainment 22 4th January 2007 11:29
Please Read This Thread *Before* Posting in the "What Car?" Section adya33 What Car? 0 12th July 2006 19:12


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 09:02.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks