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Old 27th August 2013, 23:19   #12286
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by ecosport rules View Post
Hi all,

...
Which coaxial (6.5 inch or 6.75inch)gives the best bass output (low hz)without use of amplifier?
These are the products I spotted in one of the stores.

1.focal access 165 CA 1
2.polk audio db651 2 way
3.hertz hcx 165.
...
Looked up the specs for you:
1. frequency response: 60-20,000 Hz
2. frequency response: 35-22,000 Hz
3. frequency response: 50-22,000 Hz

Polk audio maybe?
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Old 27th August 2013, 23:20   #12287
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

How do I remove the head unit out of the dash?

Recently my front right speakers have stopped playing. I swapped RCA connectors on the amp and right side started playing, left was silent. So in all probability the RCA connects are not connected properly (dash was opened last week by service center) or the cable has gone bad.
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Old 27th August 2013, 23:43   #12288
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by autotranny View Post

Is this a fair deal ? .
Those are Infinity Primus.
Get these instead:
http://www.snapdeal.com/product/infi...speaker/659144
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Old 28th August 2013, 11:10   #12289
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by autotranny View Post
... will this fit in perfectly to my front door ? ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by archat68 View Post
Those are Infinity Primus.
Get these instead: ...
Not much difference in sound signature. Would have recommended an audition first, but can't be done when you buy online. Both are pretty neutral sounding. Decide based on your budget. I would buy the Reference series, but that is me.

And yes, this will fit perfectly in the i10 door OE location, with the tweeters located in the sail panel (inside the ORVM mounting).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nareshov View Post
Looked up the specs for you: ...
There are many more aspects beyond frequency response. A speaker with a wider frequency response is not necessarily better than one which has a narrower frequency response. Listen to the speakers before deciding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyBoi View Post
How do I remove the head unit out of the dash? ...
Which car? OE or aftermarket HU? Do you realize you have not said anything about those?

If it is an aftermarket HU, it would have come with a pair of extractors. One inserts these extractors into the designated holes (check manual) and pulls the HU out.
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Old 30th August 2013, 16:10   #12290
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
How old are the OEM speakers? Often jarring can be attributed to the surronud of the speaker having worn out. If the speakers/car is more than 5 years old this could very well be the case.

Another reason for jarring is if the bass control is turned up. Try listening to the speakers with the bass control turned down and see if it helps. When a HU's bass control is turned up the Hu's amplifier is expected to produce more bass energy and also the speakers have to handle this extra bass energy. Either the HU's limitaions or the speaker's limitatons could be the cause.

Once we know the cause of the jarring then we can find a suitable solution. Meanwhile this site will explain the basics of a speaker and it's ability to handle power (see the last paragraph in the link).
http://lenardaudio.com/education/05_speakers_2.html
Thanks navin for your patience in answering! and for that excellent link!

And yes, I have raised the bass levels and in order to bring the stock 6x9 to life.

The jarring to be specific comes from that place on the dash where supposedly there is a tweeter (manza comes with 6 speakers - 2 tray, 2 front door, 2 dash). I was surprised by that, the tweeter should not be receiving any LF, but then again I do not think tata has any crossovers in my car.

Anyways, tomo I shall be checking out a few options for the car - front speakers + amp, i shall then come back with more questions!

cheers!
sai
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Old 30th August 2013, 16:37   #12291
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by sai_ace View Post
The jarring to be specific comes from that place on the dash
Push down on this area firmly and see if the jarring stops.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 16:19   #12292
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Wonderful. That means there is wiring available for the front speakers to,
Hi DerAlte; Thanks for your advice.

Finally I got the following setup installed which is mostly in line with your recommendations.

1) HU----Pioneer DEH 4590 BT
2) Front 4" Kenwood Speakers
3) Rear JBL GTO 949

Set up in good for normal use and was happy untill I sat in my friend's car. The 'THUMP' and 'BOOM' in his car surprised me. I talked to my installer immediately and he advised to install a 2 channel amplifier to get increased bass. Now I wish to ask

1) Would you recommend installing 2channel amplifier. If yes which brand and approx cost.
2) Do I need to install anything else like sub woofer etc. Is it required? If yes which brand and approx cost.

I don't have boot space because on CNG cylinder.

Your recommendation and reply would be highly appreciated.

Last edited by sparkguy : 2nd September 2013 at 16:21.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 16:42   #12293
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkguy View Post
... Finally I got the following setup installed ...
1) Would you recommend installing 2channel amplifier. If yes which brand and approx cost.
2) Do I need to install anything else like sub woofer etc. Is it required? If yes which brand and approx cost.
...
Congratulations!

1. No, I wouldn't recommend a 2ch amp, but a 4ch instead. a. the cost diff is not much, b. a 4ch is a future-proof investment and c. it is easier to tune the system well, both with and without a sub. A JBL 646 or a Kenwood M846 will cost you ~6K + a bit for cables etc.

2. Do you remember the complement of equipment in your friend's car? Hazardous to compare without knowing. Perhaps you friend has a subwoofer, which even you have to put in to get comparable sound.

6x9 coaxes do give some bass, but none go as low as a sub. Without a sub, you will be missing a part of the music. A song like "Rehna tu" by AR Rehman sounds completely different with and without a sub.

If there is no space in the boot, you will have to look for an under-seat sub. Polk has a readymade 8" sealed unit - no idea of cost. If you get a sub, the rear coaxes will stay on the HU, and the sub will be connected across the bridged rear channels of the 4ch amp

Last edited by DerAlte : 2nd September 2013 at 16:44.
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Old 2nd September 2013, 17:32   #12294
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Congratulations!

1. No, I wouldn't recommend a 2ch amp, but a 4ch instead. a. the cost diff is not much, b. a 4ch is a future-proof investment and c. it is easier to tune the system well, both with and without a sub. A JBL 646 or a Kenwood M846 will cost you ~6K + a bit for cables etc.

2. Do you remember the complement of equipment in your friend's car? Hazardous to compare without knowing. Perhaps you friend has a subwoofer, which even you have to put in to get comparable sound.

6x9 coaxes do give some bass, but none go as low as a sub. Without a sub, you will be missing a part of the music. A song like "Rehna tu" by AR Rehman sounds completely different with and without a sub.

If there is no space in the boot, you will have to look for an under-seat sub. Polk has a readymade 8" sealed unit - no idea of cost. If you get a sub, the rear coaxes will stay on the HU, and the sub will be connected across the bridged rear channels of the 4ch amp
Thanks for prompt reply. No I am not comparing and I know I can't because of monetary limitations.
I am looking to enhance 'THUMP' or 'Bass' since present system is sounding to too flat.
1) Based on your recommendation I would be adding 4 channel JBL amp
2) Can I add a sub woofer afterwards and still system would sound like upgraded one
3) Do I need to buy special wires or anything else (If yes brand. model and cost)
4) Where would this amp be placed. As stated earlier I don't have boot space
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Old 2nd September 2013, 18:58   #12295
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkguy View Post
... I am looking to enhance 'THUMP' or 'Bass' since present system is sounding to too flat.
1) Based on your recommendation I would be adding 4 channel JBL amp
2) Can I add a sub woofer afterwards and still system would sound like upgraded one
3) Do I need to buy special wires or anything else (If yes brand. model and cost)
4) Where would this amp be placed. As stated earlier I don't have boot space
1. How are the 6x9s mounted - on parcel shelf? if so, are the edges of the parcel shelf getting sealed (not airtight, but sort of sound tight)? If not. you need to glue some strips of cc foam or (tyre) tube stripsIaround it

2. Yes, you can add a sub later. That's why I said the 4ch amp would be future proof

3. For power wire (bat to amp) use good household cable. For RCA and speaker cables, can't remember brands offhand, but Scosche will do

4. Since there is no space in boot, the only possibility is below one of the front seats
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Old 7th September 2013, 02:06   #12296
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

I have a Zen with two 6.5inch on front doors , 6x9 on rear tray along with two 10inchers on tray itself. It is IB install. It has been running fine since long. Today fiddling around i changed the phase of sub on head unit Kenwood 8016 and it sounded about 100% better . The thump had better image , punch and control . What i fail to understand when all were wired in phase ( i even checked all connection to speakers, woofers again ) , Why did the system sounded better with phase reversal of subs ?
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Old 7th September 2013, 11:32   #12297
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by Trust_In_Thrust View Post
I have a Zen with two 6.5inch on front doors , 6x9 on rear tray along with two 10inchers on tray itself. It is IB install. It has been running fine since long. Today fiddling around i changed the phase of sub on head unit Kenwood 8016 and it sounded about 100% better . The thump had better image , punch and control . What i fail to understand when all were wired in phase ( i even checked all connection to speakers, woofers again ) , Why did the system sounded better with phase reversal of subs ?
A-ha you just experienced phase and delay. While they are not the same the symtoms are very similar.

Since the rear speakers are further from you it take a bit longer for their sound to reach you. If we assume the rear speakers are about 1m further away then the sound would take about 1/350 secs longer to reach you. This translates to about 3ms.

All frequencies have a wavelength. The frequency of a sinewave is inversely proportional to the wavelenth. Freq = c / wavelength where c = speed of sound in air (about 350m/s). Hence 300 Hz has a wavelength of about 1.150 m.

Since your rear speakers are further away their sound arrives 3ms later. 3ms hence traslates to about 300Hz. When you reversed the phase of the rear speakers you compensated for the delay of a group of frequencies (mostly the compensation was done below 300Hz).

You can learn more here.
http://www.libinst.com/tpfd.htm
http://sound.westhost.com/ptd.htm
http://www.immediasound.com/Speaker%20set-up%202009.pdf
(Mr. Gerhard is the owner of Audio Physic a well known speaker company)
http://rtaylor.sites.tru.ca/
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Old 7th September 2013, 14:25   #12298
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by navin View Post
A-ha you just experienced phase and delay. While they are not the same the symtoms are very similar.....
I reversed phase of woofers only from stereo settings yesterday and no setting was changed for front and rear speakers.

Adding on to it today in stereo X Over settings i removed HPF for front and rear speakers . The setting in GTO1004 powering front and rear is flat and i am not using crossover of amps. I experienced amazing stuff . The woofers which sounded great when yesterday i reversed the phase , now sounded bad . However now i changed the phase for woofers to normal and thump has returned . I wonder why these things never occurred when i had sony , pioneer in same and earlier car . Guess it takes a lot to tune a system when there are many parameters .

Based on my car i.e Zen and current set up 8016 Kenwood , Infinity Reference Components .I am driving front and rear by GTO 1004 and both woofers by 3501 GTO. Plese suggest what to enter in all paramters of stereo , amp . Appreciate your help .

Last edited by Trust_In_Thrust : 7th September 2013 at 14:47.
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Old 9th September 2013, 23:58   #12299
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

Hello all,

I am planning to get a new 4-channel amplifier for myself to drive a pair each of Rainbow Soundlines. The approximate power output value that I am looking at is 100w RMS at 4 ohms per channel.

Since I am only keen on getting a class D amplifier, I have shortlisted the below 2 options:
1. Infinity Kappa Four
2. Hertz HDP4

Could the gurus here help me in making a choice? What are the typical differences in the sound signature of these two amps & also, which one can take more abuse?
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Old 10th September 2013, 09:15   #12300
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Default Re: Car Audio Advice from the Audio Gurus: Use "Search thread" before posting a new Q

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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Yes, it will, since you will get more power into loud passages - and this will increase the dynamic range of your system.

Look for a Kenwood or JBL amp - should cost you ~6K.

A sub is *not* about thump! Leave that for people who want to show off.

Do you realize that without the sub you are leaving out crucial parts of music that was originally meant to be heard? 'Natural' would mean listening to all the components of music as it was engineered to sound.
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Originally Posted by archat68 View Post
I'll require a four channel amp - right?



Lots of people who installed sub play in such a way that would give me a heart attack listening to the thump produced by the sub. I can't understand how they can sit inside the car listening to that kind of thump. Not my way. That's why I was staying away from a sub intentionally :( .

Which sub and enclosure do you suggest? i have Swift so boot space is at premium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Yes, a 4-channel amp. Use 2 channels to drive the front speakers, bridge 2 channels to drive sub. The rear speakers can remain on the HU.

12" Infinity Ref, JBL, Polk, Bull etc. in a sealed enclosure. The sub would cost you 4-6K, and the enclosure 700-1K.
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Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Should be good if one goes by the older Kenwood amps. Haven't heard it myself though.

The Infinity Ref. But, it is better that you audition all that you can before deciding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerAlte View Post
Either a Kenwood 8016 / 7016 or a JVC (don't remember model) - around 13-15K.

No you can't. Each channel is already internally bridged.

With Option 1 you will get a better image but only a feeling of bass. With Option 2 you will get bass going deeper, but the image is not going to be that great (better than using coaxes all around, though).

Ideally, you should change to an HU with TA + get 4ch amp (front+sub) + Sub.
Thanks to DerAlte for your patient replies!!

Finally got my system up and running.

Changed the HU to JVC 926BT.
Installed a Kenwood 846 4ch amp.
Powered the front JBL comps with the front channel of the amplifier.
Damped the front doors. Changed all speaker wiring.
Installed a Rockford Fosgate 8inch sub (RF P2D4-8) in a homemade sealed enclosure of 0.3cft and powered it through the B channel of the amp (bridged).
Existing JBL co-ax in the rear door are retained for rear passengers.

Now overall change is awesome. I now know what I've been missing. Also with time alignment in HU the staging can be set to right in front of me with seamless blending of the bass from the Subwoofer .

The subwoofer enclosure was home made by me using 16mm MDF board, carpeted. Sealed all joint with Araldite and silicone glue and then screwed. Not anything fancy. Ran out of adhesive and patience while carpeting so used nails as a quick fix .

Now need a grille for the subwoofer to prevent it from accidental damage. Any idea?
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